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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Queens Gambit accepted (Read 18732 times)
John Simmons
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #37 - 10/18/05 at 06:38:13
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Hello,

In practise, I am most uncomfortable against d4*c5 going into a endgame. It is hard work getting any kind of counter-play. Also for the type of d-pawn player I most come across, they are quite comfortable sucking the life out of a position.
         Against 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3. the most QGA like a6 and a later Nd-b6 seems to be holding up nicely. (Found the coverage in Semko very good, a recent Karajin game did not shake it). As a back-up I have transposing into a less-common slav. (By this move-order have avoided exchange variation). So quite happy against this.
    7.Bb3 is theoretically the most dangerous, so not that happy to see it. On other hand, in the resulting IQP, at least black gets some chances. Am trying a move-order delaying p*P, and playing b5 after Nc3.

Bye John S

  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #36 - 10/14/05 at 11:37:56
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hi,

@slates:  my habit is to look at the position with my own eyes first without referring to theory.. so perhaps in this way get more out of reading opening books.  No book is perfect, I am sure RIzzi's book is good (that it mentioned Rogozenko-Ibragimov is a sign that its a thorough effort).

by the way, i think 11... Bd6 is superior to 11... Bb4. Main line after 11... Bb4 with queenside completely busted after 12. Qd3 Bd2 13. Bd2 Rb2 14. Rac1 (14. Bc1!? ) 0-0 15. Rc5 looks appealing for white because its much harder for Black to try something cheap on the kingside (which is his only plan Wink ) Both Semkov and yours truly think 11... Bd6 is better.

@john simmons: 11. b3 was played recently in Van Wely-Sasikiran and annotated by Ruslan on chesspub. The reason why i don't like 11. b3 so much is because i think White needs to seize more space on the queenside (ie. pawns on a3 and b4), so as to organise his major pieces to penetrate on the queenside.

To be honest, I don't think that White has much of a "+=" in this whole 7. Be6 line, perhaps it should be "+==", ie. a very small edge.  Undecided Just out of curiousity, what do you guys hate to see most as Black, and what do you feel about 7. Bb3 and 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3. Personally i found the former has too subtle theory to remember, and the latter too much theory to remember!
  
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John Simmons
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #35 - 10/14/05 at 05:26:30
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Hello,

The question is have the Authors made a mistake. When writing a book you have to decide what is important, and what are side-lines. In my opionion Semko left out the a3,b4 plan with good reason, leaving the Queen on a6 is risky, bordering on the suicidal.
  Saying that I agree that 14Qa4 is a strange move, and 14Bb2 trying to induce black to play e5 is a good idea. White has a similar idea, with 11b3 earlier, in principal black wants e5 for peices, if it is not tactically forced. I think at the moment, black is ok with 14 ...Rb6 with a5 coming later in some lines. I want to do something cheap on the kingside, but can't seem to make it work at the moment.
   One highly Fritz line, I was looking at was 14Rb1 Ng-e5 15 b5 n*n+ 16 N*f3 qe8 with ideas of Qh5 and R*N in mind, but this line does not make sense from white's point of view.
        Earlier Fritz liked the cheeky 13 ...d3, which may not be so bad, but have not really looked at it.
     Anyway, I don't really believe that a3, and b4 are going to put black's opening in trouble, but am some way from proving it at the moment.

Bye John S
  
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slates
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #34 - 10/14/05 at 04:23:04
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Thanks Inn2 for the pointers.  Do you prefer 11...Bb4 to 11...Bd6, then? I've had a quick look and can't decide which move looks better, although the whole opening is very new to me.  Incidentally, I ran this ...Bd6 line through my computer and it thought that after your 14.Bb2 e5 15.Rfc1 that 15...Rb6 may have been a touch safer than ...Ne7, but I see your point.
I would still say, though, that Rizzitano's book is most definitely one of the better chess books I've seen in terms of format, presentation and content - it's great to see someone here give their own opinion on a book line if it differs from that of the author, as I'm not really developed enough in terms of chess to make that kind of assessment yet, certainly in the context of openings I don't usually play.  It's set me to thinking, at the very least. Usually I just mindlessly accept the assessment given by the author - in fact I can only think of one or two previous occasions where I thought for myself that something was wrong with the position an author recommended, but I guess as you age and become more familiar with lines that awareness grows as well.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #33 - 10/13/05 at 21:02:25
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hi, Counterplay with Ng4 is typical in 12. Qd3 lines, but it seems too slow in case of 12. a3/13. b4 (white is coming to the c-file faster). I was aware of Rogozenko-Ibragimov, which seems to be the stem game in this line. But that game is irrelevant as 12. a3 O-O 13. b4 Ng4 14. Qa4? is a useless move, simply 14. Bb2 e5 15. Rfc1 looks nice for White, if 15...Ne7 then 16. h3 Nf6 17. Bxd4! is winning!

It seems Rizzitano was too influenced by the result of the Rogozenko-Ibragimov game in assessing this line, but in all fairness that Rogozenko game is illustrative of Black's ideas, and the Rizzi book is a repertoire book. Semkov and Ruslan (chesspub) also do not say much about this line.  Undecided
« Last Edit: 10/14/05 at 00:35:20 by lnn2 »  
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slates
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #32 - 10/13/05 at 16:18:01
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Here's what I found;

John S is right.  Rizzitano gives 13...Ng4 14.Qa4 a5 15.b5!? (15.bxa5 d3 16.Ra2 Ra8 17.a6 Nce5 18.Qxd7 Nxd7 19.h3 Nge5= Rogozenko-Ibragimov, Berlin 1995) 15...Na7 16.h3 Ne5 17.Qxd4 Nxf3+ (not 17...Rxf3? 18.Qxa7 Rff8 19.a4 and White is much better) 18.Nxf3 Nxb5=.

He considers 12.Qd3 to be the main line, but looks at other White 12th moves such as 12.Re1 and 12.e5!?.

There is plenty of analysis and a fair bit of explanation - it's all very well covered.
Incidentally, in Chris Ward's QGA book (1999) he doesn't cover 11...Bd6, only looking at 11...Bb4 - he says that 'this looks like the best place for the bishop'. He mentions though that he 'wouldn't be surprised if in future we see the more cautious 12.Qd3' after the way the game pans out (Van Wely-Sutovsky Wijk aan Zee 1997).
Although Rizzitano doesn't give any analysis of 11...Bb4, he does say that it's a sound alternative to his repertoire choice of 11...Bd6.
  
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John Simmons
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #31 - 10/13/05 at 11:40:42
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Hello Inn2,

The TN atually occurs by black with e5 in this game. It does not look too great to put more pawns on same colour as bishop, and also rules out own counter-play with Ng4, which occured in previous games.
     Will check out what Semkov book says about this line, if remember correctly was not too impressed with this plan, but had other finesses. Hoping to get the new book over the weekend...

Bye John S
  
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slates
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #30 - 10/13/05 at 10:55:56
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I'll try to check Rizzitano for this when I get home later tonight, see what he says.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #29 - 10/13/05 at 08:35:39
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Smyslov_fan i don't know yet what to think of the game..so will refrain from further comment. As you might gather, I am always on the lookout for new weapons against the QGA... its such an irritatingly solid opening  Undecided
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #28 - 10/13/05 at 08:03:34
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I can't help with any insights to this game because it's completely new to me!  Thanks Inn for bringing this plan to our attention!
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #27 - 10/13/05 at 07:57:34
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A recent Beliavsky game in the line 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 exd4 5. Bxc4 Nc6 6. O-O Be6 7. Be6 is interesting, he simply played a quick 12. a3 and 13. b4. It's strange that this quick queenside expansion with a3/ b4 is uncommon, as this was my first instinct on encountering the position.

Beliavsky-Sermek XVI Vidmar Memorial, 2005.07.09
1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 exd4 5. Bxc4 Nc6 6. O-O Be6 7. Bxe6 fxe6 8. Qb3 Qd7 9. Qxb7 Rb8 10. Qa6 Nf6 11. Nbd2 Bd6 12. a3 O-O 13. b4 e5 14. Ne1 Rb6 15. Qe2 Qe6 16. Nc4 Rbb8 17. Bd2 Nd7 18. Rc1 Ne7 19. Nd3 Nb6 20. Na5 h6 21. Rc2 Nd7 22. Rfc1 Kh7 23. h3 Rf7 24. Qg4 Qxg4 25. hxg4 Kg8 26. f3 Rff8 27. Kf2 Kf7 28. Ke2 Ke6 29. g5 hxg5 30. Bxg5 Ng8 31. Nc6 Ra8 32. f4 exf4 33. Nxd4+ Kf7 34. Bxf4 Rae8 35. e5 Nxe5 36. Rxc7+ Kg6 37. Bxe5 Bxe5 38. Nxe5+ Rxe5+ 39. Kd3 Nf6 40. R1c5 Re1 41. Nf3 Rd8+ 42. Kc4 Re4+ 43. Kb5 Kh6 44. Ne5 Kh7 45. Rxa7 Rb8+ 46. Ka4 1-0

Anyone knows what Rizzitano says about this line?
  
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Semkov
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #26 - 09/07/05 at 15:10:00
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Frankly,
I must warn you: there are many openings where computer evaluations even after long minutes of thinking are far from the truth (with more than 0.5 margin). In the QGA that is not really a problem, but in the Sicilian, or in some KID lines (four pawns) you better believe your eyes.
  
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Frankly
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #25 - 09/06/05 at 18:23:16
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Thanks Semkov; shows you - ask the expert, not the computer.

Interestingly, when one plays the option through on Fritz 'infinite analysis', Fritz likes it for White and shows advantage in the evaluation graph, with, if the king moves as you suggest, rather bizarre manoeuvres to save the knight (or, more accurately, to divert attention from its imminent demise), until the knight is eventually doomed and the evaluation swings into the red. That means I trusted the evaluation too quickly. If there's no way to save the knight or to secure advantage differently, then I can stop wondering about that non-variation, for which I am grateful. And I can start worrying about Fritz's evaluation window.

Anyway, your response was really appreciated. I worked through chapter 1, and I like the e4 line. It can go wrong in many ways, though, which means I need to familiarise myself thoroughly with the lines, although the disasters for Black appear more threatening than those for White. Some variations are quite exquisite, particularly the precipitate capture by Black's Queen on e4 after ...Qe7. Lotsa work ahead. (I got Palliser's book today, which looks great, and he doesn't look at e4 in QGA, nor at the Nc3 lines against the Slav. It's an ocean out there....)
  
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Semkov
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #24 - 09/05/05 at 15:37:08
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Frankly, I suppose that your Fritz was in a hilarious mood that day and liked everything. 1.d4 d5  2.c4 dxc4  3.e4 e5  4.Nf3 Bb4+  5.Nc3 exd4 6.Qxd4 Qxd4  7.Nxd4 Nf6  8.f3 Bc5 9.Be3 Nc6 10.Ndb5?! Be3 11.Nc7 Kd7! 12.Na8 Ne5 no wonder there are no canditates tro try this with White. Black's king goes to c6.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #23 - 08/31/05 at 17:47:12
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Semkov - I'm finally getting around to working through the e4 lines in your book. It seems that, slowly but surely, I am going to derive much enjoyment from it.

First observation:

p13: 1.d4 d5  2.c4 dxc4  3.e4 e5  4.Nf3 Bb4+  5.Nc3 exd4 6.Qxd4 Qxd4  7.Nxd4 Nf6  8.f3 Bc5 9.Be3 Nc6

You then look at a few options for White on move 10, including Ncb5 (not so hot).

But what about 10. Ndb5!?

I asked Fritz, and he liked it. After Bxe3 and 11. Nxc7+, if 11...Ke7, not Nxa8 (as it may be difficult to save the knight), but Nd5+, followed, after the exchange of knights, by NxB!

Or, if one can save the knight, one gets Rook for Bishop, the quest for which had me looking at Ndb5 in the first place. Any comments anybody?


  
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basqueknight
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #22 - 08/23/05 at 00:44:55
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Thank you every one for your advice and history. I appreciate it. didnt think this thread would start such talk. Not many of mine do that. Thanks again
  
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Semkov
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #21 - 08/19/05 at 14:07:58
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Smyslov_Fan, I see we have many similar interests! I graduated from Sofia university with an excellent dyplom in history. And I'm also a big fan of Smyslov, especially after he crushed me nicely long ago after... 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dc 3.e4 Nc6 4.Nf3! Bg4 5.d5 Ne5 6.Bf4 Guess who was Black!
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #20 - 08/17/05 at 20:06:27
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Semkov,

Thanks for that bit of enlightenment.  I didn't find your comments too academic at all  (Then again, I am too academic being a History teacher).  You've given me in a few words enough information to go get into trouble on my own, wandering through various minefields of ChessBase to find games that support/refute your comments.  Thanks again! 8)
  
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Semkov
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #19 - 08/17/05 at 05:10:07
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1. Frankly, 3.e4 b5 4.a4 is not "so" bad. It's just better for White because of free development and spatial advantage. There are no forced variations - White plays chess, well, eying Black's king.

2. In2, I was "extremely optimistic about 3... Nc6 in the first edition of the QGA book" because it offers interesting tangled play and because Black found  a couple of very good ideas in problem before lines like 4.Nf3 Bg4 5.Be3 or 4.Be3. However in positionally correct openings White always has some sound strategical line which ensures him normal play with possibly a slight edge. The riskier Black's strategy is, the bigger White's edge could be. I think that 3...Nc6 is a good compromise as it is complex while remaining objectively solid enough, perhaps up to a level of 2600. Higher up I suppose Black is doomed to struggle. At that level 3...e5 4.Nf3 ed4 5.Bc4 Bb4 is probably more viable (I personally do not trust in 3...e5 4.Nf3 ed4 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.0-0 Be6 because of 7.Be6!. White still has reserves for improving there).
All that is a bit too academical. Every one should find his own line depending on his style. For instance I feel claustrophobic in KID and it is not sexy at all to me!
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #18 - 08/15/05 at 17:19:09
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And yet, in spite of the very uneven English, I think that practically all the Chess Stars books are worth owning.


Quite.....So far the offerings have been let us say TopNotch.

TN Grin
  

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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #17 - 08/15/05 at 13:19:50
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I agree.  It annoys me when an otherwise very well translated book from German say, has grating errors like 'a brilliant sacrifice of quality' when they mean 'a brilliant exchange sacrifice' because of translators' ignorance of chess expressions - a simple proofread by a chess-playing native speaker would eradicate that completely.

I for one would be happy to undertake this in return for a free copy of some of the Chess Stars books ... much cheaper than paying 'professional' proofreaders who know nothing about chess. 


I took Semkov to task for this on another thread, and he said that they are making improvements. 

He also said that it may not be that important since many of the readers are non-speakers of English.  But that is specious, since with non-English-speaking readers, it is even more important that the English be correct!

And yet, in spite of the very uneven English, I think that practically all the Chess Stars books are worth owning.
  

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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #16 - 08/15/05 at 08:24:15
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I noticed there is a new book coming out in September from Gambit - How to beat 1.d4 by James Rizzitano.

It deals with the QGA and also gives black lines for defending against those systems where White omits c4 (Torre, Stonewall, Colle etc.)
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #15 - 08/15/05 at 07:53:55
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Semkov

Did you regard 3...b5 as so bad in the e4 lines that you did not bother to include it?

I see from chesslab.com that it still gets played, and does not do all that awfully.

I like it when Black plays 3...b5 instead of e5, but the variations tend to get sharp quite quickly.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #14 - 08/14/05 at 02:08:05
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Having the QGA in one's repertoire is certainly useful but I wouldn't want to have it as my only weapon if only because I think it could be hard to play for a win in the tedious dxc5 variations.  


Good point, I totally agree.

Tops Grin
  

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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #13 - 08/14/05 at 00:47:56
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I think the QGA is unfairly underrated, its an ideal defence for Club players.

Sure its not sexy like a KID, Grunfeld or Benoni but its reliable and fairly solid without being passive.

Toppy   Grin


Having the QGA in one's repertoire is certainly useful but I wouldn't want to have it as my only weapon if only because I think it could be hard to play for a win in the tedious dxc5 variations.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #12 - 08/13/05 at 21:29:07
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If you play 3...Nc6 against a good positional player you might dream about some more restricting lines like 3...e5. After all 4.Nf3 Bg4 5.d5 Ne5 6.Bf4 ensures a better pawn centre and a spatial advantage which might last life-long.


Semkov is absolutely right here, though he was extremely optimistic about 3... Nc6 in the first edition of his QGA book that I have!

I fail to see White's advantage after both 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 ed4 5. Bc4 Nc6 6. 0-0 Be6 7. Bb5 and 7. Bxe6. Is 7. Bxe6 the way to go now? If so, then Black's position seems defensible to me, and unlike Alumbrado, i cannot see white's kingside attack!
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #11 - 08/13/05 at 21:12:00
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I think the QGA is unfairly underrated, its an ideal defence for Club players.

Sure its not sexy like a KID, Grunfeld or Benoni but its reliable and fairly solid without being passive.

Toppy Grin
  

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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #10 - 08/13/05 at 15:33:59
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If you play 3...Nc6 against a good positional player you might dream about some more restricting lines like 3...e5. After all 4.Nf3 Bg4 5.d5 Ne5 6.Bf4 ensures a better pawn centre and a spatial advantage which might last life-long.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #9 - 08/10/05 at 21:49:12
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BTW,

About the QGA: 

I often play the White side of 3.e4!? and have found 3....Nc6 to be the most challenging defense.  It is so challenging that if I think my opponent has made a special study of that opening just for me, I will play 3.e3! in order to get a quieter game with a smaller but probably more lasting advantage.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #8 - 08/10/05 at 21:41:47
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As Smokey R used to say,

"I second that emotion." 

Alex Yermolinsky's potentially excellent book, The Road to Chess Improvement, was so marred by "little" grammatical errors that in places he wrote exactly the opposite of what he obviously meant.  I know, English is soooo confusing because of our rule about double negatives.  There were other places that just didn't scan. 

It isn't just German translators, the Russians also have to find great translators.  Don't let the Russian GMs think they can write as well as they play chess in English! Wink  Even Vladimir Nabokov had difficulty writing in English!
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #7 - 08/09/05 at 09:05:11
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(BTW - Semkov and Sakaev - allow me the liberty of suggesting that English proof-editing accompany the next edition, as there are some extremely odd grammatical and stylistic errors that could easily be avoided in the book)

I agree.  It annoys me when an otherwise very well translated book from German say, has grating errors like 'a brilliant sacrifice of quality' when they mean 'a brilliant exchange sacrifice' because of translators' ignorance of chess expressions - a simple proofread by a chess-playing native speaker would eradicate that completely.

I for one would be happy to undertake this in return for a free copy of some of the Chess Stars books ... much cheaper than paying 'professional' proofreaders who know nothing about chess.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #6 - 08/09/05 at 08:29:13
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I've just received my copy of 'The Queen's Gambit Accepted' by Sakaev and Semkov. I have always been interested in e4, until I was discouraged by the orthodoxy that it is over-hasty. These authors start with this line, and have renewed my enthusiasm for it. I will reserve judgement until I finally work through the whole book. For the time being, I will play e4. As the authors say (page eight [if I type the number I get a smiley with sunglasses!]), if you look at the e4 lines, you might discover that it is refreshing to forget about systems like 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bg4, or 3. Nf3 a6 or 3. Nf3 c5, not to mention the IQP lines which they say can be far more insidious than they look on the surface.

(BTW - Semkov and Sakaev - allow me the liberty of suggesting that English proof-editing accompany the next edition, as there are some extremely odd grammatical and stylistic errors that could easily be avoided in the book)
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #5 - 08/09/05 at 00:21:27
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Sometimes while wandering I've wondered which chess variations were best.  I'm no expert on the QGA but if I had to pick just one variation for Black after 3.e4 it would be 3...Nc6.  It appears relatively sound and offers Black chances to play for a win.
  
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #4 - 08/08/05 at 18:31:45
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I started playing my first opening ever agin the queens gambit. I told my self when i stopped playing it i would return after my understanding was more complete. It now is more complete. I am looking at a very interesting line in the accepted: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dc 3.e4!?. I was wandering if any one here plays this line and what is a good place to look for inspiration. Any players who play it all the time and the like of books or cd or even dvds.


Not to nit pick , but I have noticed that in many of your posts you seem to be 'wandering', please note that to wander means to go from place to place aimlessly. I think the word you are looking for is wondering.

Please be guided accordingly.

Tops Grin
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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alumbrado
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #3 - 08/08/05 at 02:59:24
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Well, as someone who occasionally toys with the QGA with Black, I disagree entirely with the idea that 3...e5 is the way to go.  Black can easily come under a heavy attack in these lines.  Personally I think both 3...Nf6 and 3...Nc6 are preferable.
  

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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #2 - 08/06/05 at 08:56:18
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I still think 3. e4 is THE test of the QGA, at least it has that critical "look" to it! Lifelong 1. d4 players Van Wely and Sakaev are the main proponents, and its noteworthy that Topalov chooses 3. e4 whenever he plays 1. d4 and gets the QGA. 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 ed4 5. Bxc4 Nc6 is the way for Black to go, but Kasparov's fierce attack against Anand seems to have put it out of commission, unjustifiably it seems. i don't really believe in other continuations like Rublevsky's 5... Bb4+, or earlier deviations like 3... Nc6, 3.... Nf6, 3... c5 all of which to me is at least += without much difficulty.
« Last Edit: 08/09/05 at 21:33:25 by lnn2 »  
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fianchetto
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Re: Queens Gambit accepted
Reply #1 - 08/06/05 at 05:36:34
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3.e4 was Karpov's main weapon against the QGA, so it's a good place to start. You will also be able to find some Tchuky games on the white side of this variation, some old Timman-Lautier encounters, a few Kasparov games...Or maybe make a little search with Anand, Ponomariov or Rublevsky on the black side, for sure you will find many top players  defending this 3.e4 variation  Wink
  
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basqueknight
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Queens Gambit accepted
08/05/05 at 22:04:46
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I started playing my first opening ever agin the queens gambit. I told my self when i stopped playing it i would return after my understanding was more complete. It now is more complete. I am looking at a very interesting line in the accepted: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dc 3.e4!?. I was wandering if any one here plays this line and what is a good place to look for inspiration. Any players who play it all the time and the like of books or cd or even dvds.
  
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