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Poll Question: Which defense would you play in over-the-board play?
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9...Nxf3 10 Qxf3    
  1 (4.0%)
9...Nc6    
  3 (12.0%)
9...c5    
  2 (8.0%)
9...h6    
  0 (0.0%)
9...c6    
  3 (12.0%)
9...Nf5    
  2 (8.0%)
9...00    
  0 (0.0%)
9... other moves    
  3 (12.0%)
Something before 9.Kh1 as proposed    
  11 (44.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Last Modified by: Markovich on: 04/09/10 at 12:03:01 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense (Read 42463 times)
Gambit
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #57 - 04/17/10 at 09:52:28
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A review of all Ernest Marx Memorial tournaments on USCF website showed that there were four, not five, of these. They were played in 2002, 2008, 2009, 2010 so far. I played in the Fourth, not Fifth, Ernest Marx Memorial tournament. Moderator, would you please make the correction to my earlier post?

Thanks!
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #56 - 04/16/10 at 01:36:48
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ArKheiN wrote on 04/09/10 at 13:43:16:
In fact avec 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 c5!? 3.d5 e6, 4.c4 may be better than 4.e4. This is soon a typical Benoni/King's Indian Saemisch hybrid with f3 which is about equal.

But 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 e6(!) with the same idea is clever because White has to commit himself with 3.e4 (3.c4 here would be a bad Nimzo for White) and now after 3.e4, 3..c5! (3..d5 is possible and often played but no, despite the apparence this is not an improved French, this is almost a normal one) 4.d5 and we see that White has been less flexible than against the immediate 2..c5. But ok White may play c4 on the next move and transposing unless Black play ..exd5 but if Black want to do that without allowing a white cxd5 but in exchange if he is ok to allow a white e4-e5 then 2..e6 is clearly the more accurate than 2..c5.


4.c3 d5 5.e5 Nd7 6.Be3 looks a bit better for White since the d7-knight is misplaced, but 4...b6!? seems good enough for equality since 5.e5 Nd5 6.c4 Ne7 7.d5 Bb7 8.d6 Ng6 favours Black, and 5.Bd3 Bb7 6.Ne2 d6 7.0-0 Be7 is balanced.

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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #55 - 04/16/10 at 01:22:02
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Need I remind you, this is the BDG:Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense? I would like to see some games you guys played with it!

Here are two of my games. And no, my opponents had not the benefit of computer analyses to help them. It was them against my tactical genius, the depths and thickets of the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defence... Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha...... Grin

Game 1:

Zilbermints - JasonMa
Internet Chess Club
3 0 rated blitz
9 April 2010

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 a6 9 a3! Nxd4 10 Kh1 Nxf3 11 Qxf3 Qd6 12 Ne4 Ne4 13 Qf7+ Kd8 14 Bxe4 Bxg5 15 Rad1 Bd7 16 Rxd6 cxd6 17 Qxg7 Re8 18 Qxg5+ Kc7 19 Bxh7 Rh8 20 Be4 Rag8 21 Qe3 d5 22 Bf3 Bb5 23 Re1 Bd7 24 h3 Rg3 25 Qf4+ Kc6 26 Qxg3 Be8 27 Rxe6+ Kb5 28 Bxd5 Bd7 29 Qb3+ Ka5 30 Qb4 mate.

Game 2:

Zilbermints (2082) - Juan Tica (2058)
V Ernest Marx Memorial
Game in 90 minutes
Ridgewood, New Jersey
12 April 2010 


1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 h6 10 Bf4 Nc6 11 Qe1 Nd5? 12 Nxd5 ed5 13 Qg3! Kf8 14 Bxc7 Qe8 15 Rae1 Be6?? 16 Rxe6! fxe6 17 Nd4+

Here 17 Bg6! was best, but I did not see it. Anyhow, there is more than one way to win in this position.

17...Bf6  18 Bd6+ Kg8  19 Nxc6 Qxc6  20 Rxf6 Rd8
21 Be5

Here 21 Rf7!! wins outright, but I only saw 21 Be5.

21...Rd7 22 Bf5! ef5 23 Rxc6 bc6 24 h4 Kh7 25 h5 Rf8 26 Qg6+ Kg8  27 Qxc6 Rff7 28 c3 Rfe7  29 Bd6
Re1+ 30 Kh2 Rf7 31 Qxd5 Re2 32 b4 f4  33 Bxf4 Rf2
34 Bg3 R2f5 35 Qd8+ Kh7  36 Qd3 Kh8  37 Kg1 Rxh5
38 c4 Rhf5  39 c5 g5  40 c6 h5 41 c7, Black resigns.

Winning this game netted me first place in the tournament, with 4.5/5 points.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #54 - 04/09/10 at 15:44:04
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..Nd5 I think, and we have a form of Alekhine. ..Nh5 looks interesting, threatening Qh4+ to have the time to press the d4 pawn.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #53 - 04/09/10 at 15:15:03
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What happens after 2.f3 e6 3.e4 c5 4.e5?
  

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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #52 - 04/09/10 at 13:43:16
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In fact avec 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 c5!? 3.d5 e6, 4.c4 may be better than 4.e4. This is soon a typical Benoni/King's Indian Saemisch hybrid with f3 which is about equal.

But 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 e6(!) with the same idea is clever because White has to commit himself with 3.e4 (3.c4 here would be a bad Nimzo for White) and now after 3.e4, 3..c5! (3..d5 is possible and often played but no, despite the apparence this is not an improved French, this is almost a normal one) 4.d5 and we see that White has been less flexible than against the immediate 2..c5. But ok White may play c4 on the next move and transposing unless Black play ..exd5 but if Black want to do that without allowing a white cxd5 but in exchange if he is ok to allow a white e4-e5 then 2..e6 is clearly the more accurate than 2..c5.
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #51 - 04/09/10 at 13:13:47
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It's hard to not do this kind of thing. In all fairness, mine last two were quite borderline, but at least there were some moves in them.

There's actually this database out there by David Zimbeck (I'm sure you know him Mark) that recommended the line I posted against 1...Nf6. Against 1...d5, there is some decent BDG coverage. No solutions for the strongest lines of course.
  
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Re: Re:
Reply #50 - 04/09/10 at 12:35:26
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TonyRo wrote on 04/09/10 at 12:15:46:
Quote:


I was being facetious. I thought it was obvious because of my overuse of exclams, but apparently I was way off.

Grin


No, it was obvious, but actually after thinking about it, I thought that 2...c5 probably isn't as good as 2...d5.  Maybe I'm wrong about that.

I hate this thread.  I just went back and deleted reams of off-topic and/or pointlessly argumentative posts, including some of my own.
  

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Re:
Reply #49 - 04/09/10 at 12:15:46
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Quote:


I was being facetious. I thought it was obvious because of my overuse of exclams, but apparently I was way off.

Grin
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #48 - 04/09/10 at 11:59:07
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Yeah I thought later about it, and I suppose 2...d5 is stronger than 2...c5.  But I'll stand by 3...c5 and 4...c5.

4...Be7, so passive.

I dunno how long this thread has been in this section, but I deleted the bit about "chickening out," both in the poll and the OP.  In future I will summarily delete anything that remotely touches upon cowardice in chess, and that includes "chickening out."  If anyone wants to talk about his allegedly excellent fighting qualities and the alleged lack thereof in his opponents, he should do it under General Chess.  Or best of all, not at all, since it's embarrassing to see anyone over the age of 14 puff his chest out over a chess move.
  

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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #47 - 04/09/10 at 04:27:25
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To be fair, TonyRo is wrong! How is it a forced win? After 1 d4 Nf6 2 f3 c5 3 d5 e6 4 e4 ed5 5 e5 Qe7!
6 Qe2 Ng8 7 Nc3 d4 8 Nb5 Kd8 9 Nd6 Nc6 10 Bf4 Qe6 11 Kf2 Nge7 =
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #46 - 04/08/10 at 20:16:12
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But Markovich! Then 1. d4 Nf6 2. f3! c5? 3. d5 e6 4. e4 exd5 5. e5! is a forced win for White!

Grin
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #45 - 04/08/10 at 18:02:42
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What a pity that neither 2...c5 nor 3...c5 were played.  Nor 4...c5, come to think of it.  2.f3.  Now there's a chess move for you.
  

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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #44 - 04/08/10 at 16:34:25
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Yes, that is correct. In the March 28, 2010 Quad tournament in Westfield, New Jersey, just such a case occured. I was playing White against Joshua Colas, rated 2131. The game went as follows:

1 d4 Nf6 2 f3 d5 3 e4 e6

Trying to avoid the BDG

4 Be3 Be7

Avoiding the Rasa-Studier Gambit

5 e5! Nfd7 6 c3 c5 7 f4 f5 8 Nf3 Nc6 9 dc5 Nc5 10 Nd4 Nxd4 11 Bd4 Ne4 12 Bb5+ Be7 13 Bd7 Qd7 14 00 a6 15 Nd2 000 16 Bb6! Rde8 17 Ne4 fe 18 c4 Bd8
19 Be3 Kb8 20 Qd4 b6 21 Rad1 Bc7 22 cd5 ed5 23 Qd5 Qa4 24 Rd4 Qc2 25 Rc4 Qb2 26 Rfc1 Rc8 27 Qd7 Qe2 28 Qd2 Qd2 29 Bd2 Rhd8 30 Bb4 b5 31 Rc6 Rd7 32 e6! Rd4 33 e7 Rc4 34 R1c4 bc4 35 Bd6! c3 36 Rxc7, Black resigns
  
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Re: BDG: Zilbermints Gambit in Euwe Defense
Reply #43 - 03/30/10 at 15:45:39
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3...e6 sounds like a good answer, especially since 4.f3?! (which is likely to tempt many BDG-ers) doesn't work after 4...Bb4.  3...c6 is a less effective way of avoiding the BDG as White can continue with 4.Bc4 followed by 5.f3, and 4.f3 is also playable.

The only problem with 3...e6 is that if you don't play the French, and are up against an 1.e4-player who meets the French with 3.Nc3 and sometimes dabbles in the BDG, you may end up move-ordered into a system that your opponent knows better than you!  At my local chess club a number of players used the Scandinavian and some of them weren't familiar with the French Defence, so when I played them and a few of the games went 1.e4 d5 2.d4 e6, it was them who found themselves in unfamiliar territory.
  
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