MartinC wrote on 10/07/13 at 08:32:45:


@ Martin C
Perhaps this is a blind spot for you: 'Repertoire'.

Yes.
...a6 is the best way. 
...Qe5 is just very tricky. 
The only way to try with white is the Nbd2 line, as played by Jiri Nun iirc.

In Play the French 4 Watson recommends 10...a6, concluding (probably correctly, in my opinion) that Black has some advantage in all lines, and says that 10...Qxe5 is good but there are claims that certain lines may not offer Black enough winning chances.

Thanks, french has been a good opening to me.  Even the french exchange .  Unfortunately they have not given me my floor and I've had some bad tournaments lately, I want that floor!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who said no theory, the whole site from which this forum revolves around is an opening theory site.  I realize you're probably being sarcastic, but considering half the discussions I read on this forum you seem to be part of the 50% that doesn't think the unsound opening they play wins by force.  I forgot to mention that the Bc2 originally mentioned is already worse for white, even worse than the gambit I believe since he is either forced to give up his light squared bishop or castling rights after  e4 e6 d4 d5 e5 c5 c3 Nc6 Nf3 Bd7 Bd3 cd cd Qb6 Bc2 Nb4 where  Bb3 is strongly met by Bb4 when white is clearly worse.  As for the g5 push I mentioned.... when I was working in my head earlier I forgot that after Qxg5 black cannot play 0-0-0, but it is still not clear, for the record fg is close to lost after the simple Ne5, however, I believe my original idea I found over the board is quite strong, Nb4, now the point is really that Qg7 fails to 0-0-0 Rf1 (since there is no fork on the queen anymore) Nd3 Rf2 Nf2+ Kg1 Ng4+ and black is winning if Kf1 Rdg8 and black has a strong attack after Qf7 Nh2 Ke2 Rg2.  If instead of Kf1 white plays Kh1 then Rdg8 Qf7 Rg6! and due to the queen trap threat white must sac a piece, the resulting material imbalance is still quite complicated, but the position is most likely winning for black.  I've only looked at this position quickly, but I'm fairly convinced, feel free to give any improvements over this, I'm quite interested.

@jgutman,

Sheesh.  This was supposed to be a discussion without any theory.  Now you go and blow it by quoting one of the leading experts on the line but even finding some independent lines that work.  We don't want the whole world to know that the Milner-Barry is a bust!  Let the players fumble around in the dark, always wondering why GM's never play this line against other GMs.   

OK now, I understand...
8.oo Nb4!? is an interesting alternative given by Zlotnik.

Argh, pawn snatchers are among us...

An uncommon way to play versus pawn snatcher is to keep Black pawn on d4 waiting for dxc3: for example: 6..Bd7?! (6...cxd4!) 7.oo (7.dxc5!) cxd4 8.Qe2 Nge7 9.cxd4 Nxd4 10.Nxd4 Qxd4 11.Nc3 and now Black can play 11...a6; 11...Nc6 ; 11...Qb6 or 11...Ng6!? (Harding) or 11.Nd2 (with the idea Nf3)  or 8.a3 (trying to push Black in a deferred Millner-Barry game with 8..a5) Nge7 9.b4 dxc3 Nxc3

About the "safe" 7.Bc2 : maybe the move could be subject in another thread (what to do in the 7...cxd4 8.cxd4 Nb4! line Steinitz-Burn)

The variation giving one tempo 7.Be2 transposes after 7...cxd4 8.cxd4 Nh6!  (or 8...Nge7) 9.Nc3 Nf5 Na4 but White is not playing for a win but a draw.