I am no expert on the line but I created a acount at Chessable and bought The GothamChess 1. e4 Repertoire some dags ago. Engines today are much different they see long term compensation much better than only 4 years ago. They also se longer before horizon effekt. I can not give an entire chapter but many lines are covered. I dont think white is better evolution is 0.00 when black has an extra pawn. The Bc5 line is met by Nxd4 Bxd4 Qh5 quiting some players games. I have not computer checked the entire analys but to my human eye whites play look more simple but computers says 0.00. I also think books get outdated much faster today. At any rated the original idea with Nc3 is evaluated as much better for black.

Bragesjo,

You might look at the game Smerdon v Sadler. Some years ago, but iirc that ...b6 kinda busted the line.

Looked it up, and was discussed here prior:
https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1403291137/12

Game link: https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/3590261

Have newer and more powerful engines found anything here to resurrect white...?

bragesjo - Thanks for the informative update.  It's interesting that that the Hector Gambit approach is also being tried in positions arising from ...Bd7 instead of ...Qb6, but it seems reasonable to explore the idea in similar positions, given its success in the ...Qb6 line.   

The May 2023 French update even has the game Kulaots-Bacrot, Vrnjacka Banja 2023 where the idea was tried in the 6.a3 line in the French Advance Variation: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.a3 Nh6 7.Bd3!? cxd4 8.0-0.

AndyFeng35 wrote on 08/28/23 at 18:21:43:

Does Black win at the same percentage against the delayed form of the Milner-Barry? FYI - this line goes 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.Bd3 cxd4 and now 7.0-0, instead 7.cxd4 as in the original M-B Gambit. The delayed version is often credited to Johnny Hector, who apparently played it as early as 2008. It really caught on when Carlsen played it against Harikrishna in a 2020 blitz game.

The delayed M-B has been more successful than the original version and has been recommended in a number of White 1.e4 repertoire books, including Gawain Jones' Coffeehouse Repertoire.  See this thread

https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1634744219

for a short discussion. The delayed M-B/Hector Variation is also covered in the November 2020 French update:

https://www.chesspublishing.com/content/2/nov20.htm#adv

Rc8! I think this move is better than Ne7.. 12.  Kh1 Bc5 13.  Bg5 h6 14.  Bd2 Ne7 15.  Rac1 O-O-/+ This move might be the improvement *

chandrashekharkoravi wrote on 11/27/13 at 06:32:17:


If you want to argue to my post (7 years old !? ) you can do, of course...but what else you propose for White. ? (another move than 14.Rf3) 

It's easy to dismiss one move without any concrete variations or ideas for both sides...For example: I didn't reply on CanadianClub last post, because woman champion's video was nice to watch and chess interesting, but my first idea is a quick Black reply ...f6!? to Nun gambit. But I have no time to analyze or search for games, hence I did'nt post because my arguments not ready.

****

I just checked your posts in other threads on chesspub: only one sentence or no idea to propose...to some extend some others went much more annoyed by them:

Quote:

Quote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGs7bmXSrSE

It seems dangerous for black, isn't it?

SWJediknight wrote on 10/07/13 at 00:23:35:


I always preferred the 10...a6 move instead of 10....Qxe5 variations despite knowing both systems. But in a6 system I replaced a later Nd3 with Bc5.

MartinC wrote on 10/07/13 at 08:32:45:


@ Martin C
Perhaps this is a blind spot for you: 'Repertoire'.

Yes.
...a6 is the best way. 
...Qe5 is just very tricky. 
The only way to try with white is the Nbd2 line, as played by Jiri Nun iirc.

In Play the French 4 Watson recommends 10...a6, concluding (probably correctly, in my opinion) that Black has some advantage in all lines, and says that 10...Qxe5 is good but there are claims that certain lines may not offer Black enough winning chances.

Thanks, french has been a good opening to me.  Even the french exchange .  Unfortunately they have not given me my floor and I've had some bad tournaments lately, I want that floor!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who said no theory, the whole site from which this forum revolves around is an opening theory site.  I realize you're probably being sarcastic, but considering half the discussions I read on this forum you seem to be part of the 50% that doesn't think the unsound opening they play wins by force.  I forgot to mention that the Bc2 originally mentioned is already worse for white, even worse than the gambit I believe since he is either forced to give up his light squared bishop or castling rights after  e4 e6 d4 d5 e5 c5 c3 Nc6 Nf3 Bd7 Bd3 cd cd Qb6 Bc2 Nb4 where  Bb3 is strongly met by Bb4 when white is clearly worse.  As for the g5 push I mentioned.... when I was working in my head earlier I forgot that after Qxg5 black cannot play 0-0-0, but it is still not clear, for the record fg is close to lost after the simple Ne5, however, I believe my original idea I found over the board is quite strong, Nb4, now the point is really that Qg7 fails to 0-0-0 Rf1 (since there is no fork on the queen anymore) Nd3 Rf2 Nf2+ Kg1 Ng4+ and black is winning if Kf1 Rdg8 and black has a strong attack after Qf7 Nh2 Ke2 Rg2.  If instead of Kf1 white plays Kh1 then Rdg8 Qf7 Rg6! and due to the queen trap threat white must sac a piece, the resulting material imbalance is still quite complicated, but the position is most likely winning for black.  I've only looked at this position quickly, but I'm fairly convinced, feel free to give any improvements over this, I'm quite interested.

@jgutman,

Sheesh.  This was supposed to be a discussion without any theory.  Now you go and blow it by quoting one of the leading experts on the line but even finding some independent lines that work.  We don't want the whole world to know that the Milner-Barry is a bust!  Let the players fumble around in the dark, always wondering why GM's never play this line against other GMs.   

OK now, I understand...
8.oo Nb4!? is an interesting alternative given by Zlotnik.

Argh, pawn snatchers are among us...

An uncommon way to play versus pawn snatcher is to keep Black pawn on d4 waiting for dxc3: for example: 6..Bd7?! (6...cxd4!) 7.oo (7.dxc5!) cxd4 8.Qe2 Nge7 9.cxd4 Nxd4 10.Nxd4 Qxd4 11.Nc3 and now Black can play 11...a6; 11...Nc6 ; 11...Qb6 or 11...Ng6!? (Harding) or 11.Nd2 (with the idea Nf3)  or 8.a3 (trying to push Black in a deferred Millner-Barry game with 8..a5) Nge7 9.b4 dxc3 Nxc3

About the "safe" 7.Bc2 : maybe the move could be subject in another thread (what to do in the 7...cxd4 8.cxd4 Nb4! line Steinitz-Burn)

The variation giving one tempo 7.Be2 transposes after 7...cxd4 8.cxd4 Nh6!  (or 8...Nge7) 9.Nc3 Nf5 Na4 but White is not playing for a win but a draw.

dom, 

You're right about the Nimzo-Salwe game that Watson cited, but he also implies that the evaluation was biased as a result of the game rather than because of the resulting positions.  However, the question was about the position after 10.Nc3 rather than how best to get there.

Watson recommends either 10...a6 10...Qe5 which he states "is doing brilliantly theoretically but it is more difficult in practice than 10...a6" (Play The French, Third Edition(2003) p. 53.  his opinion of the entire variation is that "White has little, if anything for the pawn." (p. 56)

I personally prefer grabbing the pawn and hanging on for dear life, but as IM Michael Mulyar once told me, I should seriously consider joining Pawn Snatchers Anonymous.  Anyway, with both a good way to accept the gambit and at least one good way to decline it as Black, I think that unless White has something specific in mind, 6.Bd3 belongs on the trash heap of chess opening history.

I think this is the main reason strong masters rarely, if ever, play it against each other.

First of all, 7.o-o? is incorrect because of Bb5!
Second 7.Nc3 cxd4 8.cxd4 Nxd4 9.Nxd4 Qxd4 10.o-o a6 11.Qe2 Ne7 12.Kh1 Nc6 13.f4 Nb4 14.Rd1 Bc5! and 15...Qf2 stops even the shade of a white attack.
Third 10...a6 11.Kh1 has done relatively well, but after Qxe5 the inclusion of a6 and Kh1 should benefit Black.
So thumbs down.

You might better try to revive the Alapin Gambit 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Be3 dxe4 4.f3.

10...a6 puts a stop to all White's fun.  Then White has about half a pawn's compensation for his pawn.

If you want something sharp to play in the Advance, you might look at 4. Nf3, which was upheld from time to time by Keres.  I used it myself with good effect, way back when I was an e4 player.

What do you think of the Milner-Barry Gambit (1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 e5 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Nf3 Qb6 6 Bd3 Bd7 7 0-0!? cxd4 8 cxd4 Nxd4 9 Nxd4 Qxd4 10 Nc3) as an attacking weapon against the French for white? It cuts out a lot of theory and avoids hideously boring lines like the Fort-Knox variation: 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Bd7 5 Nf3 Bc6. It seems to work especially well against greedy players who like to take the second pawn. 

White can also play safe with 7 Bc2 if he wishes.