ChessPub Forum - Top Ten French Players Poll

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Poll

Question: Who are the top 10 French Players of all time? (VOTE FOR 5)

Botvinnik

47 (13.7%)

Korchnoi

67 (19.6%)

Nimzovich

17 (5.0%)

Uhlmann

59 (17.3%)

Rubinstein

3 (0.9%)

Khalifman

1 (0.3%)

Short

12 (3.5%)

M. Gurevich

19 (5.6%)

Volkov

10 (2.9%)

Petrosian

26 (7.6%)

Portisch

5 (1.5%)

M. Gurevich

11 (3.2%)

Morozevich

31 (9.1%)

Vaganian

23 (6.7%)

Bareev

11 (3.2%)

Total votes: 342

« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 04/24/11 at 01:02:03 »

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Top Ten French Players Poll (Read 51505 times)

Luis Moreno YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 7 Joined: 06/13/10	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #50 - 06/13/10 at 16:24:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	This is my first post, I see this forum very interesting, ok here are my 5, not in order of importance because is hard to tell who was better: 1) Korchnoi 2) Volkov 3) Uhlman 4) Vaganian 5) Botvinnik Greetings from Lima - Peru


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fierypawn YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 28 Joined: 04/09/10	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #49 - 06/04/10 at 12:17:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.Botvinnik 2.Uhlmann 3.Radjabov 4.Vaganian 5.Short


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Smyslov_Fan YaBB Moderator Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #48 - 06/02/10 at 03:28:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm kinda busy this week, but I'll try to retally the votes now that we have quite a few new entries. It seems that Volkov has suffered the most in the minds of the publicans in the last 5 yrs while Portisch seems to have surged.


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #47 - 05/28/10 at 16:33:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	Poor Uhlmann, who only reached #17 in the world. If only he had been actually good ...


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OrangeCounty Full Member Offline You played that like it was a good move! Posts: 171 Joined: 05/26/10	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #46 - 05/28/10 at 16:22:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	1. Botvinnik (for being the only one to win a WCH match with it) 2. Korchnoi (for being the only other one to almost win a WCH match using it (if only a little)) 3. Short 4. Morozevich (for singlehandedly reviving about 42 sidelines of the opening) 5. Portisch (for being as influential as Uhlmann... and actually good)


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Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #45 - 04/13/10 at 20:36:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	I see the Franco-Germanic rivalry is back again

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #44 - 04/12/10 at 21:54:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/12/10 at 20:31:45: Stefan, I only have two games that Morphy played as Black in the French. (He won them both.) Kurt Richter had a 30% score according to my db. (Out of only 5 games.) I realise you're pointing out how ridiculous scoring % can be, but I still have no idea how you got the numbers you did. Kurt Richter was known as a "French killer". (I find it amusing that in the French thread the overwhelming number of opinions are pro-French, just wanted to stir this sect up a bit. Probably I'll be banned.)


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #43 - 04/12/10 at 21:07:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	In the preface of the German edition it is more than hinted that Karpov sought Uhlmann's advice "while preparing for a World Championship match."


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Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #42 - 04/12/10 at 20:48:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/12/10 at 20:31:45: My reason for focusing on Korchnoi's use of the French only twice in the official WC matches was to make as close a comparison between Botvinnik and Korchnoi as possible. There is still an open question (in my mind) why Korchnoi would all but abandon the French against Karpov after scoring 50% in 7 games in 1974. Karpov didn't have much experience in the French outside of that match in those years. I am not sure for which match, but in the preface of Uhlmann's book it is hinted that he was approached by Karpov for advice on the French. I am unaware if that may have influenced Korchnoi in his choice of opening, but it would be a travesty if it werent, as it would spoil a good anecdote. PS Uhlmann is underestimated. If you take up such a feeble opening (when did the French win a WC? even the CK has a better pedigree) and still manage to beat chaps like Fischer and Boleslavsky.... Also keep in mind that during the 50s and 60s it wasnt easy to compete in top events as the Soviets had cornered the market and the DDR wasnt getting any leftovers.

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Smyslov_Fan YaBB Moderator Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #41 - 04/12/10 at 20:31:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stefan, I only have two games that Morphy played as Black in the French. (He won them both.) Kurt Richter had a 30% score according to my db. (Out of only 5 games.) I realise you're pointing out how ridiculous scoring % can be, but I still have no idea how you got the numbers you did. Regarding Korchnoi's use of the French during the 1974 Candidates: Kylemeister, you're right of course. Korchnoi defended the French honor fabulously in that Candidate's match and I should have remembered as much. It wasn't officially a WC match, but it had the eventual effect of being one. My reason for focusing on Korchnoi's use of the French only twice in the official WC matches was to make as close a comparison between Botvinnik and Korchnoi as possible. There is still an open question (in my mind) why Korchnoi would all but abandon the French against Karpov after scoring 50% in 7 games in 1974. Karpov didn't have much experience in the French outside of that match in those years.


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #40 - 04/12/10 at 20:20:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	Kurt Richter in the French: 73%. Morphy had 94%.


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LeeRoth God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 1520 Joined: 10/22/05	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #39 - 04/12/10 at 18:22:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	@MortalGames I actually agree with you that Botvinnik's 65% is comparable to Korchnoi's 60% because of the difference in their eras. It's why I listed both of them as my best ever. I put Botvinnik first for other reasons, some of which have been mentioned here, but it was very close for me and I almost listed them the other way.


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mangler Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 174 Location: Orlando Joined: 10/30/06 Gender:	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #38 - 04/12/10 at 18:09:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/12/10 at 16:52:47: I'm a bit surprised nobody has jumped to the defense of Lajos Portisch in all this discussion. His games influenced me about as much as Uhlmann's games, yet he seems forgotten in the discussions. Glad you brought up Portisch. I was tempted to mention him, but I always thought of him more as a Najdorf or Closed Ruy player. Perhaps that is just me. I would love to see a new book on Portisch's games. I had the old one by Varnuz (i think), but there should be a modern one, with a section on his theoretical contributions. He had such a broad repertoire with both colors. What a great player.


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MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2115 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #37 - 04/12/10 at 18:07:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	Of course there are plenty of reasons that might make someone prefer Korchnoi over Botvinnik for the list. They are after all subjective, personal lists. What was a touch silly was your apparent suggestion that the only reason someone might put Botvinnik higher was the 5% score difference


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Mortal Games God Member Offline Posts: 587 Joined: 07/24/04 Gender:	Re: Top Ten French Players Poll Reply #36 - 04/12/10 at 17:52:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Winning a WCh-match is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. Neither the games nor the players have ever been chosen at random. The question if Rubinstein would have been strong enough to beat Lasker in a match say in 1912 is a matter of opinion. The fact that Kasparov did not manage to win one single game against Kramnik says a lot about the latter. In it's core you are writing plain nonsense. Or I could nominate my old friend Bart Smit (ELO 1600) as the greatest player of the French ever. He never got the chance to play for the title either, but played his favourite opening exclusively against 1.e4. When I said "it´s a matter of opinions", I am refering only to the diference in statistics of 65% (Botvinnik) to 60% (Korchnoi) using the French, taking on account that Korchnoi is still playing against every new generation armed to the teth with computer analysis. The diference of only 5% using the French for me, favors Korchnoi because of his long career (in my opinion). I agree that winning the WC is a matter of fact and if possible with the French (like Tal-Botvinnik first match! In the second Botvinnik wins with the Caro-Kann) but it´s a fact too (and not an opinion) that Korchnoi was not helped by the state team. (Another player was Boris Gulko). Kasparov not winning a single game against Kramnik is another discussion (when we speak about the greatest ever) but not only speaks about Kramnik itself but about Kasparov too, because not winning a game in a match for WC and beeing badly prepared is a fact of history.

	It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses. It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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