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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Palliser's Benoni Recommendation (Read 13387 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #33 - 10/29/05 at 12:26:47
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Bonsai,

I once studied these lines, and stopped worrying about 7....Nbd7 after 8.Nf3 intending 9.e5.  Nobody's ever played that way against me in blitz or any other time control (at least that I can remember), and I just don't believe any Benoni fan would even bother trying to breathe some life into it.  Having said that, perhaps Super Moro will come up with some reason to play it!

Richard, what do you think, is 7...Nbd7 worth serious investigation or does White just get a big edge?
  
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Bonsai
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #32 - 10/20/05 at 14:55:43
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1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 (7.f4 Nbd7 8.Bb5 a6 9.Bxd7 Nxd7 (=) looks fine too)

After the 7...Nbb7, I think white shouldn't play 8.Bb5 but rather 8.Nf3. I suppose this all then depends on the evaluation of 8.Nf3 Bg7 9.e5 dxe5 10.fxe5 Ng4 [10...Qe7 doesn't look good] 11.e6 fxe6 12.dxe6. Or does white have something better than 9.e5? (e.g. 9.Be2 0-0 would just be a transposition to a line that's supposed to be most acceptable for black).
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8.Bb5+ Nfd7 (not 8...Nbd7?, which turned out pretty bad in the game Sokolov - Topalov, Wijk aan Zee 1996) 9.a4 0-0 10.Nf3 Na6 11.0-0 Nc7 12.Bd3 a6 13.Kh1 Rb8 14.f5 b5 15.Bg5 Nf6 16.e5 dxe5 17.Nxe5 Bb7 18.Nc6 Bxc6 19.dxc6 c4 20.Bc2 Qxd1 21.Raxd1 Rb6 22.Bxf6 Bxf6 23.fxg6 fxg6 24.Be4 bxa4 25.Nxa4 Rb4 (=+) Sotnikov - Totsky, 1992

As to 8...Nbd7 - see this other thread http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=nimzobenoni;action=display;num=11... where there is a certain doubt as to whether the Sokolov - Topalov game is really so clear. (compare also http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=nimzobenoni;action=display;num=11...)
My question was whether in that aforementioned Sokolov-Topalov game 20...Qg2 would not be a serious improvement after which I don't really see that black is worse.
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So, I'll be on the look-out for more advice from "Bonsai" regarding the Modern Benoni  Smiley

Smiley
  
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IMRichardPalliser
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #31 - 10/20/05 at 05:41:10
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Well Black was certainly OK in Rowson-Ward, although Greenfeld claims that White should deviate quite early.  Elsewhere, 7...a6 8 h3!? b5 9 Bd3 Bg7 10 0-0 0-0 (aka 7...Bg7 8 h3 0-0 9 Bd3 b5 10 0-0 a6) is quite tricky to face, but what's wrong with this logical (in the sense that the Bc8 lacks a good square) idea of ...Ra7-e7, asking White what his plan is? Often there will eventually be some queenside break (with White tied to e4), but any queenside opening should help Black as much as White.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #30 - 10/19/05 at 20:13:05
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Is Epishin's 7... a6 8. Qe2 so fearsome? I haven't looked closely at the latest NIC yb article. but i recall quite a number of lines go into the endgame.
Against 7.... a6 move order, i am happy with allowing Black to play b5 (i prefer that than to allow Bg4, or to allow the Suba plan with 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 exd5 5. cxd5 d6 6. Nf3 g6 7. h3 a6 8. a4 Qe7). Vegh thinks 7... a6 move-order is no "magic pill", and White has scored reasonably with 56%.

Take a look at:

Dreev, Alexey-Emms, John , Hastings 2000
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5 4. d5 d6 5. Nc3 exd5 6. cxd5 g6 7. e4 a6 8. h3 b5 9. Bd3 Bg7 10. O-O c4 11. Bc2 O-O 12. Bf4 Re8 13. Re1 Bb7 14. a3 Qb6 15. Be3 Qc7 16. Qd2 Nbd7 17. Nh2 Nc5 18. Bd4 Rab8 19. Ng4 Ncd7 20. Ne2 Nxe4 21. Bxe4 Rxe4 22. Bxg7 Kxg7 23. Ng3 Ree8 24. Ne4 f6 25. Qc3 Re5 26. f4 Rf5 27. Ng3 Rxf4 28. Re7+ Kh8 29. Qe3 g5 30. Nh5 Rxg4 31. hxg4 Rf8 32. Rxh7+ 1-0

Sokolov,Ivan-Hamdouchi,Hichem, FRA-chT 2003
1.d4 e6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 exd5 4.cxd5 d6 5.Nc3 g6 6.e4 Bg7 7.Nf3 a6 8.h3 b5 9.Bd3 Nf6 10.0-0 0-0 11.Re1 Re8 12.Bf4 Ra7 13.a3 Rae7 14.Rc1 Nh5 15.Bg5 Bf6 16.Be3 Nd7
17.b4 Bh8 18.Qd2 Nhf6 19.Bb1 cxb4 20.axb4 Nb6 21.Bd3 Bb7 22.Bg5 Rc7 23.Ne2 Nc4 24.Bxc4 Rxc4
25.Rxc4 bxc4 26.Ng3 Qc7 27.Qf4 Nd7 28.Qh4 Ne5 29.Nxe5 Bxe5 30.Rc1 Bg7 31.Bf6 h6 32.Nh5 Bf8
33.Qg4 Bc8 34.Bc3 Be7 35.Qf4 gxh5 36.Qxh6 f6 37.Qg6+  1-0

Admittedly these games are a mismatch in terms of elo (with all apologies to John!), but Black's position is not easy even if he gets in his much-desired b5.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #29 - 10/19/05 at 11:21:05
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Hi you all,

I'm just picking up the Modern Benoni and was looking on the internet for some resources on this interesting opening for Black. I was very happy to find out about this forum and started reading the messages on here.

I also bought Pallisers "The Modern Benoni Revealed", which is quite good (came out in 2005, so I supposed it would cover the latest theory on this subject - and I was right  Wink ).

Concerning the Taimanov Attack (which seems to be a System for White that scares off a lot of (potential) Benoni players), as far as I can tell by now, "Bonsai" is right in saying:

Quote:
I don't know is there really a problem with the Nfd7 + 0-0 + Nb8-a6-c7 + Rb8 + a6 etc. line? (i.e. 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 9.a4 0-0 10.Nf3 Na6 11.0-0 Nc7 12.Bd3 Rb8 or maybe 12...a6, can't remember exactly which move order is better or whether it matters)


The Chessbase "Modern Benoni CD" gives the following line for Black:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 (7.f4 Nbd7 8.Bb5 a6 9.Bxd7 Nxd7 (=) looks fine too) 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 (not 8...Nbd7?, which turned out pretty bad in the game Sokolov - Topalov, Wijk aan Zee 1996) 9.a4 0-0 10.Nf3 Na6 11.0-0 Nc7 12.Bd3 a6 13.Kh1 Rb8 14.f5 b5 15.Bg5 Nf6 16.e5 dxe5 17.Nxe5 Bb7 18.Nc6 Bxc6 19.dxc6 c4 20.Bc2 Qxd1 21.Raxd1 Rb6 22.Bxf6 Bxf6 23.fxg6 fxg6 24.Be4 bxa4 25.Nxa4 Rb4 (=+) Sotnikov - Totsky, 1992

So, I'll be on the look-out for more advice from "Bonsai" regarding the Modern Benoni  Smiley
  
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Paul Hopwood
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #28 - 09/21/05 at 10:04:11
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Hi all,
        Nice to see such lively debate about an equally lively opening!

Having looked through this entire thread, I'll add my twopenneth for what it's worth.

White can be cunning in the Bf4 lines by holding back on Nf3 and playing 6 Bf4 and 7 Qa4+ if allowed.  Black should play 6...a6 and transpose to the main lines.  I believe these lines do carry quite a bit of poison for the simple reason that positions arise that are unlike any other variation and understanding alone isn't enough.  However, I concede I could well be wrong in this and it may just be that I have suffered at Richard's hands in too many blitz games!

In The Taimanov Attack, ..Nbd7 is fighting back with lots of new ideas and Rowson-Palliser is a long way from the end of the road.  Obviously playing a sharp opening just to have to defend R+B vs R isn't my idea of fun either, but there is certainly more room for potential improvement.  ...Nfd7 has also been doing well in both the ...Qh4+ and in the main lines.

As regards the MML, I thought black was having difficulty after Epishin's Qe2! in the 7...a6 lines, but in the main line with 9...b5, white had nothing better than the 2 rooks and 4 vs. queen and 4 ending.

Apologies for not really fleshing this post out with much analysis, but I have just arrived at uni and I don't have any of my books with me.  Also with it being freshers weeks, my poor carbon-based database refuses to download right now!   Wink

Will hopefully be able to add some analysis soon.

Regards

Paul Hopwood
  
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Fernando Semprun
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #27 - 09/17/05 at 14:20:57
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Psakhis was the one that stated in his excellent book

"I havenot had the youthful enthusiasm to play the Benoni (without waiting for Nf3 and thus allowing the Taimanov...)"

Since I am not a true 1.d4 player and the Nimzo vs the  QI doesnot look so much harder/difficult to play against... I will still consider the Taimanov as the critical line against the Benoni...
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #26 - 09/16/05 at 22:04:16
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Am I missing something?

Taimanov is the real problem for the Benoni. [...]

Topalov  tried Nbd7, but gave up. It is really difficult to do much against Taimanov in my view (?)



I don't think Nbd7 is anywhere near as bad as its reputation.  The simple fact, and perhaps this is the reason why Topalov switched variations, is that the resulting positions have been worked out deep into the endgame and offer Black few winning chances against best play.  (Of course, Sokolov-Topalov may have speeded him along this path, but important improvements were subsequently found.)

I feel a bit like a broken record here (cf: 7.f4 Qe7 thread), but I think Black is fine in this line, and would be quite happy if someone could prove me wrong.
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Regarding some of the earlier conversation, about knight's tour lines, Black has no problems, even after the Nf3-d2-c4-e3 (after e2e4), a4-a5 business.  Often Black can prevent the full implementation of this plan or develop counterplay in the meantime -- it takes quite a few moves for White to achieve this type of set-up.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #25 - 09/16/05 at 20:03:36
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Am I missing something?

Taimanov is the real problem for the Benoni. I checked the recommendations by Watson but then, as Mathew Sadler aptly expressed, you actually look at the position(s) forgetting what Watson claims and... I find them dreadful for black...




I remember once hearing IM Watson discuss the Taimanov line, and I also looked up his book when it came out.  I didn't actually buy it because I decided much the same thing that Fernando Semprun did:  Black's game hangs on an unravelling thread.

IM Watson was under no illusions about the playability of the Modern Benoni, but I understood his book to be an attempt to show the best lines in spite of everything.  I thought he suggested that the best thing to do was to play the Modern Benoni only after White had already played Nf3 and his Taimanov lines were more for completeness than as a heartfelt recommendation.  I could be wrong, but I think if you read the introduction and the notes very carefully, he hedges his bets on this line.

The Taimanov would be the only thing White would have to worry about if White could impose a move order on Black.  Since that isn't possible, there are other lines and other chapters that are important.  That's where Richard Palliser's recommendation comes in handy.  It addresses what to do if you fall into the Benoni after you've already played Nf3 as White.

Mind you, I still prefer the main line ideas to Qd1-a4-b3.  But that may be more a matter of taste than of objective strength.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #24 - 09/16/05 at 17:34:02
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I don't know is there really a problem with the Nfd7 + 0-0 + Nb8-a6-c7 + Rb8 + a6 etc. line? (i.e. 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 9.a4 0-0 10.Nf3 Na6 11.0-0 Nc7 12.Bd3 Rb8 or maybe 12...a6, can't remember exactly which move order is better or whether it matters)
  
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Fernando Semprun
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #23 - 09/16/05 at 14:37:36
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Am I missing something?

Taimanov is the real problem for the Benoni. I checked the recommendations by Watson but then, as Mathew Sadler aptly expressed, you actually look at the position(s) forgetting what Watson claims and... I find them dreadful for black...

I analysed the Nbd7 line too ages ago. Amazingly, Piket-Ivanchuk Melody amber never played the Bh6!! given in Psakhis ( a real killer).

Topalov  tried Nbd7, but gave up. It is really difficult to do much against Taimanov in my view (?)

  

Fernando Semprun
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #22 - 09/09/05 at 09:32:46
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@Palliser

Thanks for the reply and reposing your faith in Nf3 and Bf4 against Benoni. I have to make a confession here. I am ashamed. But it did cross my mind that since your repertoire crosses here, I thought you wanted to keep some cards close to your chest. I'm sorry and I don't feel that way any more.

Cordially

Castlerock
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #21 - 09/09/05 at 06:46:38
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Interested to see all this differing Benoni views. For what it's worth I still believe in Nf3 and Bf4 and, bar the Modern Main Line, can't see any other promising alternatives after Nf3. Of course there's g3, but that's not really me!
Yes, 9 Nf3 in the Taimanov is certainly tricky, although Black's seen it off before and will hopefully again! Certainly it currently has good surprise value though.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #20 - 09/09/05 at 05:31:12
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The challenges for Black are most definitely not insuperable - at least not in the Classical Main Line - which is why, increasingly, players are turning towards the Modern Main Line (MML) which mostly involves leaving the knight on f3.  In fact, many White players, even up to quite a high standard, are so bemused to see the knight dropping back to a8 that they think they have an overwhelming position and either go crazy trying to force a breakthrough or get frustrated that they can't find one.  I have beaten a number of very strong players and even titled players with the Modern Benoni

I have found Black's position to be OK in the MML, following Watson's recommendations (the line I played anyway, before his book came out).  I have not seen Christiansen's NIC article though  Undecided

Of more concern is a recent trend to play 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5† Nfd7 9.Nf3!?, simply allowing Black to expand on the queenside.  Really quite dangerous.
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #19 - 09/09/05 at 04:29:15
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@alumbrado,

Good points!  These challenges for Black are usually insuperable.  White scores very well in the main line of the Benoni as a result of this.  Is there any way that Black can avoid the mainline without going ballistic with some weird, unsound sac?
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #18 - 09/09/05 at 04:06:10
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After Nf3-d2-c4 and ...Nd7-b6, White usually drops the knight back to either e3 (if he has played e4 already) or a3 (if he has a4 in), and then kicks the knight back with a4-a5.  It is important for Black to have either c8 or sometimes a8 available for the knight, so that it can re-route (via a7 or c7) to the b5 square.

With a bishop on f4 this process can be complicated somewhat by the pressure against d6 - it is important for Black to think about how he is going to untangle before the White knight lands on c4 - and preferably before it lands on d2!
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #17 - 09/08/05 at 23:12:46
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@Nf2-d2-c4: This is easy to face if White plays it too early; a simple Nbd7-b6xc4 works well.  It is more dangerous after Bf4, which prevents Nbd7, or just as a general plan if Black playing passively.



Scholar, this is an excellent point, and makes the timing of Nf3-d2 critical.  As a matter of fact, I usually do play it only after I've developed my B on c1 (I sometimes make an exception to this when Black plays Na6 instead of a6).  While I am most comfortable with Bc1-f4, I've also had success with the Bishop on g5.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #16 - 09/08/05 at 20:53:17
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@Inn2:  A good point to make, although this won't help Castlerock, because Pallisser's repetoire is based around an early Nf3.  Add this to the list of (Benoni) variations which are harder for White to play after an early Nf3.

@Nf2-d2-c4: This is easy to face if White plays it too early; a simple Nbd7-b6xc4 works well.  It is more dangerous after Bf4, which prevents Nbd7, or just as a general plan if Black playing passively.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #15 - 09/08/05 at 11:55:48
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Trivia:  Did you know that the Penrose-Tal game was the only one Tal lost as World Champion?  (except of course in the 1961 match)
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #14 - 09/08/05 at 06:39:21
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@castlerock: a search using Chessbase for benoni games involving b4 will answer your question Wink


I could do that. I wanted to hear the concept from an expert! Cheesy I was not particularly interested in specific lines. I thought b4 works better with e-pawn in place.
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #13 - 09/08/05 at 06:30:12
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For the White side, it is not only about e5/f5, which every club player knows from reading. Even more important (which is ignored by 99% of weaker White players I know) is to learn how to handle Black's queenside counterplay. The reason why the Benoni is so infuriating for White at lower levels is because of the apparent helplessness against Black's seemingly "unstoppable" queenside expansion. The timing of b4 is absolutely crucial here. @castlerock: a search using Chessbase for benoni games involving b4 will answer your question Wink
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #12 - 09/08/05 at 06:08:29
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Quote:
after that its all about e5! and f5!

Black can usually cope with e4-e5 or f4-f5 on their own: the plan that often causes trouble (cf. the famous game Penrose-Tal) is when White plays e4-e5 and is in a position to answer ...d6xe5 by following up with f4-f5. 

The idea is to create an outpost on e4 and limit the activity and co-ordination of the black forces (Bg7 becomes purely defensive and e5 square unavailable for e.g. a Black knight).

Black should aim to be in a position to meet this (after the f4-f5 move) with the counter-sacrifice ...e5-e4, opening up the a1-h8 diagonal again and freeing e5.

In my view, this is a key idea to grasp when playing the Modern Benoni.  Judging when this breakthrough will work for White and when Black's counterplay will prove sufficient, is of critical importance.

This is especially true of the line with Bf1-d3, Ng1-e2(-g3) and f2-f4.  Obviously, if White plays Nf3 and Bf4, it is of less relevance.
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #11 - 09/08/05 at 05:52:28
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Usually my energies are focused on trying to make b4 work for White, and then after that its all about e5! and f5! Smiley


Forgive my ignorance. I don't know these lines much. But on general terms, doesn't playing for b4 (with Rb1 thrown in) opens up a file and gives black sufficient counter play?
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #10 - 09/08/05 at 02:34:35
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@Scholar: I'm sure you know if White plays 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 ed5 5.cd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.h3, there is no way the a6 move order could avoid the modern main line, not when White plays 3. Nc3. This is why Watson still provides a whole repertoire in the Modern Main Line with 7... Bg7/9.... Nh5, despite covering the a6 move order earlier.

About the knight's tour Nf3-d2-c4... somehow in my games I am not particularly concerned about playing it quickly. Perhaps its the nature of my favourite variations. Usually my energies are focused on trying to make b4 work for White, and then after that its all about e5! and f5! Smiley
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #9 - 09/07/05 at 21:36:50
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Scholar,

Thanks for pointing out my typos, and reading the appropriate moves into it. The move order I use allows for White to play either the Bf4 idea that Palliser apparently recommends or something else.  (I'm not so sure about playing such an early Qb3.) I do occasionally play 9.Bd3, but more often play 9.Be2 in preparation for a possible Bf4.  Usually, I bring out the Bishop only after my N is on c4.  Black's main plan in this system is to attack with ...f5 as early as possible, but Fischer's Nh5 (as far as I remember, he played it before Soltis did, in 1972 WC #3) is not very convincing here.  So where to put the Black Nf6?
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #8 - 09/07/05 at 20:29:08
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Quote:
I now stick to the main-line variation.  I don't allow ...Bg4 by playing an early h3.  Here's a sample line:  1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 e6 5.Nc3 ed5 6.ed5 d6! 7.e4 g6 8.h3 Bg7 9.Bd3!? (supposedly better than Be2, but I'm not sure)0-0 10.0-0 a6 11.a4 Qc7 12.Nd2!


Your notation here is a bit of a mess, which is a little important, since there are significant move-order issues.

I think you mean something like: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 ed5 5.cd5 d6 6.Nc3 g6 7.e4

and now

7...Bg7 8.h3 0-0 9.Bd3 does not really allow the stereotyped plans you mention.  For example, 9...b5 leads to some chaos and a ton of theory which extends for dozens of moves and 9...Nh5 is the rarely-played move which Watson advocated in his book.

I share some of the skepticism of 9...Nh5, although I have never gotten that interested in things, since I prefer 7...a6 which seems to be a fine alternative for Black, who either plays b5 (against h3) or Bg4xf3 (against a4).

At any rate, this is all a bit off-topic, though I would be happy to continue in another thread.

As far as the Bf4 lines, I think that they are about as good as anything from White's perspective, although if you don't like the positions which result from the critical lines, I guess that would be a reason to shop around. 

In my experience, for White to achieve a better position in the Benoni, he must be willing to risk entering some tactical sidelines, so I don't really have any great suggestions.  If I assume that you are following Palliser's Nf3 repetoire, then you might find g3 systems are worth a look, though I think these are less difficult for Black to play.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #7 - 09/07/05 at 19:18:32
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So the position is:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Bf4 g6 7.Qa4+ Bd7 8.Qb3 Qc7,

when I think Palliser (at least on this website) mentioned that black must be careful not to drift into a passive position (or he said something like that...it's been a few months since I read the update). Aside from 9. e4, he recommends that white can also play the moves h3 and e3 (not sure which order, check the chesspub updates...). I think the idea is that h3 prevents the moves Bc8-Bg4xf3, which is desireable for black, and e3 is played because without a pawn on e4, black doesn't have a target to hit at.

I played this online a few times, with good results.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #6 - 09/07/05 at 16:41:14
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My favourite line against the Benoni : 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+(8.e5!?)



This is the famous "Flick-Knife", "Switch-Blade", "Taimanov" Variation.  (8.e5 is "Mikenas'" System.)  The main objection to both is that they are move dependent.  That is, Black can often wait until White has played Nf3 to play ...c5 and then White never gets any fun.  The second objection is that the Taimanov variation has been studied to death, especially by the Brits, so you really need to know what you're doing as White just to survive.

I used to play the White side of the Taimanov and always got good results, but I got scared off by some of the analysis I saw.  I now stick to the main-line variation.  I don't allow ...Bg4 by playing an early h3.  Here's a sample line:  1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 e6 5.Nc3 ed5 6.ed5 d6! 7.e4 g6 8.h3 Bg7 9.Bd3!? (supposedly better than Be2, but I'm not sure)0-0 10.0-0 a6 11.a4 Qc7 12.Nd2!

The maneuver, Nf3-d2-c4 has a fantastic pedigree, being discovered by Nimzovich and used by all sorts of great players.

This causes the greatest consternation to the Modern Benoni players I've faced because it is just so hard to meet!  White's play against the weak d6 pawn combined with overprotecting e4 makes this a strategic nightmare!  My results in this line, after a single instructive loss where I didn't play an early h3 and then botched that variation, have been perfect.  I haven't faced anyone over 2300 in this line, but I don't think there's anything to fear for White.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #5 - 09/07/05 at 13:50:08
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My favourite line against the Benoni : 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+(8.e5!?)

But what is the impressïon from a Benoni player? (I am interested about what the Black side think about this position) It surely the most agressive way to fight against the Benoni.
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #4 - 09/07/05 at 08:14:25
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Palliser's exact move order is 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nf3 g6 7.Bf4. I was happy to see the whole 7... a6 8. e4 b5 9. Qe2 business (which was new to me at the time), but now think that 12... b3 and 14... f5!? is sufficient for equality, still this is a position that can be played on, and is sufficiently surprising to the average benoni player who can get into difficulties quickly.

But Palliser's other line with 7... Bg7 8. Qa4+ Bd7 9. Qb3 Qc7 10 e4 0-0 11. Nd2 is too defensive for my taste.Undecided The whole idea of overprotecting e4 and suppressing Black on the queenside with Qb3 is very sound and may frustrate some black players, but as White I prefer to have my pieces poised for centre breakthrough and kingside attack. I'm not even sure if Black is in trouble if he just sits on his position, and does nothing (!)

Best by test is Modern Main line, where Black has to work hard to draw. Watson's Nh5 idea is ingenious and probably the only playable solution now, but Larry Christiansen in latest NIC thinks Watson was too optimistic about Nh5, and so do yours truly  Smiley

Nowadays I alternate between modern main line, and Samisch Benoni (when it arises from KID, or when I am surprised by my opponent). Of course taimanov/flick knife will always be in consideration, but currently i am rather convinced by Qh4+ and Qd8 (here Watson is convincing).
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #3 - 09/07/05 at 06:36:23
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@alumbrado

Yes. While typing I felt something is not alright. Anyway... here is the right move order 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Bf4 g6 7.Qa4+ Bd7 8.Qb3 Qc7 9.e4 b5 Looks like I am a proverbial cut and pase typist. Cry

@elspringer

I don't understand. Are you trying to tell me either to go to main line or to suffer? I am looking at something more in the line of 4.e4 Slav or Benko declined. Not the best move, positional and may be easy for black to equalise. I don't mind.

This is a back up line to take care of move order problems. My main stay is Saemisch Bg5 against Benoni. So I don't want deeply theoritical lines. Any help would be appreciated.
  

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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #2 - 09/07/05 at 04:40:27
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Hm. You' re looking at things from the White side. In that case you should be looking at some other variation than Bf4. It is a good line for someone who wants something to cope with the Benoni, I guess, in the amount of theory learned/position obtained trade-off sense. If you want a better position you will need to get acquainted with a more theory-heavy-line, I'm afraid.
The modern main line perhaps, which has not stolen its name...
  
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Re: Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
Reply #1 - 09/07/05 at 04:38:43
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Quote:
If you find the post confusing it’s because I am confused.

It may be the case that you are confused, but I am finding the post confusing because after 8.e4 in the position you suggest, I would play 8...Bxa4! -+ and after 9.Bxd6, 9...bxa4 would be equally effective.

I assume you have missed out some moves somewhere - 8.Qb3 Qc7 and then 9.e4 b5 or 9.Bxd6 Qxd6 10.Qxb7 perhaps?
  

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Palliser's Benoni Recommendation
09/07/05 at 00:24:11
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I have trouble with Palliser’s recommendations for Benoni. After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Bf4 g6 7.Qa4+ Bd7 8.e4 b5 he rightly warns against taking the pawn. After losing a couple of pawns and a knight, black gets winning position. He suggests 9.Bxd6 which is only marginally better. Black has too much of play in the opening. Getting out of opening will be an ordeal and I don’t like the resultant positions. Other check blocks are harmless for white. Particularly I love the positions arising out of 7…Qd7 which suggests itself. That’s the attraction. But 8…b5 is a deterrent. Or is it better to settle for some thing sober like Kramnik’s 7.e4 followed by Nf3-d2-c4 plan? If you find the post confusing it’s because I am confused.

Any light would be appreciated.
  

CastleRock
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