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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white (Read 25567 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #49 - 10/02/05 at 07:10:30
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1...Nf6 certainly is fine, Taljechin.  But I have never had reason to worry about the Englund Gambit (1.d4 e5) as White.  As Black, I'd be ecstatic to play against it!  It would mean that my opponent had just given me an extra "White" in the tournament and played a dubious line, to boot!  I think that from a practical perspective Black would have a real (regardless of how small) edge after 1.e3 d5 2.e4. 

Of course, Black also has good chances at equality after 1...Nf6, but then White may try to switch to some sort of English or other semi-closed position in which an early e3 isn't so harmless.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #48 - 10/02/05 at 02:45:15
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The position after 2.e4 can also be reached after 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1. I think this was played in a game between Per Thorén and N-G Renman.


So after 1.e3 I suppose 1...Nf6! is the answer as white wouldn't want to lose both a tempo and a pawn with 2.e4? (1...d5 2.e4 would be an Englund gambit).

Btw, maybe this e3-e4 stuff has a following in Sweden, as I remember Kaj Falinder using it in Öppna SM 1991 lr 93, and winning in about 20 moves after 1.e3 e5 2.e4.

In the game you mention, Thorén had a fun point, as Renman wouldn't be expected to know his open games as well as his french defence...

(Though I did see him play the KG as white in a blitz game, an ½ hour before a round in Elitserien a few years ago.)
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #47 - 10/02/05 at 02:12:34
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Toppy,

Your posts tonight are lacking some of your usual insights.  I hope you find a thread that really grabs your interest tonight!
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #46 - 10/02/05 at 02:08:15
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1.e4 e5 2.a3

Now black can't play a reversed Ruy Lopez, and the Ruy Lopez is the best of the best. So maybe there is a method to the madness after all.

Or is there?

Toppy Grin
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #45 - 10/02/05 at 01:57:45
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When White plays an early a3 without provocation it shows a blatant disregard for Nimzovich's warning about wiping smut off your nose at the start of a race.  2.a3 (or 3.a3) doesn't lose for White, but White has clearly stumbled out of the opening blocks.  I'm sure there are plenty of lines where an early a3 can help White.  But there are also plenty of lines where it's just a baroque move. 

These lines don't throw away the game for White.  And in the age of computer analysis, it may be a way to reach a fairly unusual position.  But we don't need to take such extraordinary measures to make chess interesting. 

For me, when White plays 2.a3 he does it to get a rise out of me personally.  That's fine, but beyond its psychological effect, I don't see any need to spend a lot of time analysing possible variations when Black has so many good ways to develop.

Let others worry about whether it's equal.  Black can easily achieve his primary goals in any opening:  develop his pieces, fight for control of the center, and protect his king.  2.a3 doesn't help White to achieve any of the above and allows Black to accomplish all of the above.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #44 - 10/01/05 at 22:34:59
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Well MNb you're forgetting about 5.h3!  Hmmm, oh nevermind.  It certainly looks equal to me.  Even systems with ...d6 or ...g6 look pretty solid with White having spent a tempo on a3.  
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #43 - 10/01/05 at 15:23:49
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Isn't 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Be7 idea 5...o-o and 6...d5 completely equal? Note 5.Bc4 Nxe4!
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #42 - 10/01/05 at 09:07:56
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Long ago, pawns could only move one square on their first move.  I suppose many games started like this:  1.e3 e6 2.e4 e5.  Seems pretty silly now, but I wonder which of our current rules will look just as silly to players 200 years from now?

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #41 - 10/01/05 at 08:58:06
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Btw, my opponent displayed a sense of chesshumour, as he later opened 1.e3 and after 1...e5 played 2.e4, and then I hadn't the heart to play 2...a6


The position after 2.e4 can also be reached after 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1. I think this was played in a game between Per Thorén and N-G Renman.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #40 - 10/01/05 at 08:33:59
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Anyone else notice I always want to play f4 in the double e-pawn openings? 


Well, you're not alone! Cheesy

As for the Mengarini stuff, it's really confusing by now, with all the pros and cons of every possible or impossible opening being better or worse in some way or another.  Undecided

Btw, just noticed that Kaufmann gives 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.a3 d5! with black playing a Scotch 4-Knights with the less useful move a3 in for white (or rather, black  ??? ) - which is very similar to CWisnewski idea against ...a6 - though I'm still not sure that a3 is so obviously unimportant here either.

At least 2/3/4.a3 is a fun way of recycling one's knowledge of the Open Games.  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #39 - 10/01/05 at 07:47:49
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Anyone else notice I always want to play f4 in the double e-pawn openings?
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #38 - 10/01/05 at 04:50:06
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Hugh Myers wrote a book on 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3 called "Reversed King's Pawns: Mengarini's Opening" (if memory serves me correct).  I believe Hugh went on to explain that 2.a3 was actually Mengarini's idea and that 2.Nc3 Nf6 was his refinement.  Although I do know that Hugh had also at least thought about playing 2.a3 as well.  I remember him mentioning to me the 1.e4 e5 2.a3 f5 3.Bc4 idea and him wondering if 3.Qf3 was better or worse than 1.e4 e4 2.f4 Qf6 was for Black. 

After 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3 a6, what about the old try 4.f4?  I remember some of Black's better defences involving a ...Bb4 move.  Probably Black has other good ways to a good game but how about 4...d5 5.d3!? trying to play it as a reverse Philidor counter-gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 f5)  with an extra Nc3 thrown in (of course a3 and ...a6 thrown in as well).  Ok, that's probably hoping for too much but might be a decent blitz weapon.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #37 - 09/30/05 at 13:48:54
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Not sure if I'm just duplicating Cwisnewski's post above, but the article on the Gunsberg can be found in SOS - Volume 1.  It's followed by an article about an early a3 in the Austrian vs the Pirc which, if memory serves me correctly, was used by Glenn Flear a couple of years ago to win a nice game (I think!!).

If you have the individual issues of NIC - the Gunsberg article is in the 2001/8 edition with the fantastic tribute to Tony Miles by Genna Sosonko.

Combine these 2 with the French Wing gambit (also in SOS 1) and 2 a3 vs the Sicilian and that's nearly a repertoire!
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #36 - 09/30/05 at 04:48:59
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Well, I don't buy it, since ...a6 is often a necessary defensive move for black while a3 is not so necessary.

True, black loses Bb4 options but white loses his Bb5/Nb5 options too - which are more common in the theoretical lines, and both king's bishops can hide on a2/a7.


Edit:

Hmm, there's actually 20 games with 3.a3 a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 with white scoring extremely well. Though, I suppose that's because black usually plays 6...Nxd4 or 6...d6.

But 6...Bc5 still looks OK for black, though I have to admit that having a3/a6 included here doesn't seem to harm white's chances. So it might be +=  Undecided


After a quick look, the only 2 instances where a3/a6 might make a difference would be:

Miles-Sorin & Miles-Hebden where black would gain the option of ...Ba7 after 13.Na4 and 10.Na4

and

possibly those cases where black goes Bb6 allowing Be3xb6,

After 7.Be3 - the only one game with a3/a6 went 7...Nxd4 8.Bxd4 Qe7 instead, and black even went on to win, though the game continuation 9.Be2 d6 10.Bxc5 dxc5 looks like a nice structural advantage for white á la the Echange Ruy - however, black got pressure on e4 pretty quick so maybe it's not that simple...  Undecided



Pirttimaki,T (2295) - Nippula,T [C47]
FIN-chT FIN, 1993

1.e4 e5 2.a3 a6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 Bc5 7.Be3 Nxd4 8.Bxd4 Qe7 9.Be2 d6 10.Bxc5 dxc5 11.0-0 0-0 12.Qd3 Re8 13.Rad1 Bd7 14.f3 Rad8 15.Qe3 Bc6 16.Rfe1 h6 17.e5 Rd4 18.f4 Red8 19.Bf3 Nd5 20.Nxd5 Bxd5 21.c3 Bxf3 22.Qxf3 Rxd1 23.Rxd1 b6 24.h3 Qh4 25.Rxd8+ Qxd8 26.f5 Qh4 27.Kh2 Qe1 28.Qf4 Qe2 29.h4 a5 30.Kh3 Qxb2 31.f6 Qxc3+ 32.Kh2 Qd4 33.Qg3 g6 34.Kh1 Qe4 35.Kg1 c4 36.Qc3 c5 37.a4 Qd4+ 0-1



Ochoa de Echaguen,F (2405) - Cuevas Rodriguez,M (2200) [C47]
ESP-chT ESP (4), 1992

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 Bc5 6.Be3 Nxd4 7.Bxd4 Qe7 8.Be2 d6 9.0-0 0-0 10.Bxc5 dxc5 11.Bf3 c6 12.Qe2 Qe5 13.Rad1 Be6 14.Qd3 Nd7 15.Be2 f5 16.f4 fxe4 17.Qxe4 Qxe4 18.Nxe4 Bd5 19.Nd6 b6 20.c4 Be6 21.g3 Nf6 22.f5 Bf7 23.Bf3 Bh5 24.Bxh5 Nxh5 25.g4 Nf6 26.g5 Ne8 27.Ne4 Nc7 28.Rd7 Rf7 29.Rxf7 Kxf7 30.Rd1 Ke7 31.Rd6 Ne8 32.Rxc6 Rd8 33.Re6+ Kf7 34.Re5 Rd4 35.b3 Rd1+ 36.Kg2 Ra1 37.g6+ hxg6 38.fxg6+ Kf8 39.Ng5 Rxa2+ 40.Kg3 Nf6 41.Nh7+ Kg8 42.Nxf6+ gxf6 43.Re7 Ra3 44.Kg4 Rxb3 45.h4 Rb1 46.Rxa7 1-0

  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #35 - 09/30/05 at 04:35:44
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@Taljechin

Certainly the Scotch Four Knights. With Black being unable to play ...Bb4, White should be able to obtain at least a small advantage.
  

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