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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white (Read 15223 times)
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #64 - 02/15/06 at 04:34:36
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The above post touches on some very good points when one is limited on time for study. I did not think of playing a Ruy until about 4 years into the game.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #63 - 02/14/06 at 18:31:32
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bump...to the top.

Anway the intitial premise in this thread is an intersting one. I would gather by the initial post that this person does not have that much study time & is seeking maximum gain with such little time to devote. Well there is a way..

First off I can't belive that some folks are suggesting this person take up the Ruy! Outside of copius amounts of Ruy theory one must study all of the semi-closed openings as well....too much...way too much! This guy is obviously a novice so he must be eased into the game with openings that keep  control of the games direction in his ballpark. Hence as white I would recomend the Bishops Opening. It would seem you have been playing some variants of it already but you hould stick with it. This opening is used by some GM's. Chances are it is not the opening but your middlegame play. Study the Bishop Opening inside and out. As black against 1.)e4 I would suggest (get ready for the controversy) the Philidor. Now before others start jumping on this suggestion lets talk plainly. One it is a fairly simple to learn. Secondly you can master it fairly quickly (4-6 months). Thirdly it serves as a very lethal surprise weapon. The Philidor in competant hands is deadly against 85% of the chess masses. Yes of course against best play the opening is weak. Here is the kicker though.....you will not be playing against best play in 99% of your games. I rode the Philidor horse for 5 years. I notched up some very impresive wins against strong opposition. It is easy for folks to refute theory away from the board but quite another when one is at the board. Against 1d4 I would recomend the QGA. Fairly straightforward opening with easy theory to learn & understand.

Now for some devations: Against the English 1.)c4 I would recomend choosing one line against it & sticking with it. The same will hold true for the Reti and various 1)d4 openings (tromp, torre, stonewall, etc.).  With these suggestions you will be fairly surprised how much more confident you will become at the board & yes there have been folks who have rode these openings to master level. One last piece of advice...STICK TO YOUR GUNS NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELL YOU! Half the fun in chess is defending ones own pet openings despite the many who would seek to do them harm! If the unthinkable happens & you find you are rising to the higher ranks in chess then you will have to incorperate more sound & solid openings....this however is a longshot! Not to be a jerk but it is realistic....

As for myself after playing the above openings for years and with some strong players getting used to my openings I had to slowly change my opening arsenal. Against 1)e4 I will use the Pirc & Modern. Against 1)d4 I have the Nimzo & Bogo now. As for white I now employ the English & Reti. I'M slowly working toward  1)e4 (Ruy) after a great deal of study in anti sicilian, caro, petrov & french lines. I found this far easier to acomplish after tremendous over the board experience with my first set of openings. I still will venture into some of my first openings when IM' pretty sure my opponent will not be prepared to face them.......
  
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lost highway
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #62 - 10/10/05 at 10:31:56
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The critical line seems to be 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Bd2 0-0 7.0-0-0 Re8 8.Qg3
white sacs a pawn for development. seems intresting, even super-GM Polgar tried it twice as the databases show, once again Kasimjanov.

Bruce -

When I used to play this, my opponents usually spent a lot of time on simple moves, thinking that there must be a trap involved.  There isn't any trap.  So, one practical advantage is you can use this in fast time controls and watch black burn up precious minutes as he squirms around trying to figure out what white's trick is.  There is no trick.  White just ends up with equality at best if black stays calm.

- Lost Highway
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #61 - 10/10/05 at 10:20:06
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Bruce,

Normally, quoting Judit Polgar as playing an opening is high recommendation indeed.  Unfortunately, her repertoire is getting burnt to a crisp in the cauldron at San Luis. Cry  Still, it's good to see the idea has legs!
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #60 - 10/10/05 at 06:29:20
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The critical line seems to be 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Bd2 0-0 7.0-0-0 Re8 8.Qg3
white sacs a pawn for development. seems intresting, even super-GM Polgar tried it twice as the databases show, once again Kasimjanov.
  
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lost highway
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #59 - 10/02/05 at 16:58:40
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Thanks for pointing that out, Lost.

Sure.

- Lost Highway
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #58 - 10/02/05 at 16:23:27
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Thanks for pointing that out, Lost.
  
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lost highway
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #57 - 10/02/05 at 16:18:54
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It's flattering that an idea of mine is so popular that others not only copy it, but claim it!


Poor researching skills again.  Check this thread, September 12, 7th post.  Hint:  It pre-dates yours.

- Lost Highway
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #56 - 10/02/05 at 16:07:31
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It may have been me.  The opening is one of the junk openings that occasionally work against weak players who feel uncomfortable when they are forced out of their book preparation.  Strong players will kill you, and even a weak player who is familar with it and stays composed will probably win.  You really need to know your opponent.  I don't recall any basic plans, other than to concentrate exclusively on piece development.  Don't move your pawns unless absolutely necessary.

- Lost Highway



As you probably noticed in my own notes made last Friday, the idea is just the opposite of Lost's last recommendation.  The object is to open up as many lines as possible, and White's f4 figures very prominently in this plan!
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #55 - 10/02/05 at 16:05:24
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...If you want a little-known opening that has scored well in the past, here's a good blitz opening:

1.e4 e5 2.d4!? ed4 3.Qd4!? Nc6 4.Qe3 Nf6

(4...Bb4+ Nc3 leads to similar positions).  4...g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Bd2 d6?! (Nf6) 7.0-0-0 Nf6 8.f4!)

5.Nc3 Be7 6.Qg3!

5....Bb4+! 6.Bd2 0-0 7.0-0-0 and it's an unusual, unclear game.  It's theoretically equal, but it would certainly score in many games.




It's flattering that an idea of mine is so popular that others not only copy it, but claim it!

Bruce,

I'm glad I was able to help!  This idea does work well in blitz, and i think GM Larry Christiansen has done some work on it.  Maybe he has some games in his library on ICC?  I will check my databases some time, but it may be a while.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #54 - 10/02/05 at 11:10:52
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Funny thing... someone suggested her 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3.  Now i tried it in blitz, and it dosent look so bad. If anyone could give analysis of major options for both sides from this point, id be glad.

It may have been me.  The opening is one of the junk openings that occasionally work against weak players who feel uncomfortable when they are forced out of their book preparation.  Strong players will kill you, and even a weak player who is familar with it and stays composed will probably win.  You really need to know your opponent.  I don't recall any basic plans, other than to concentrate exclusively on piece development.  Don't move your pawns unless absolutely necessary.

- Lost Highway
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #53 - 10/02/05 at 10:50:16
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I have (in blitz) tried 1. e4 e5 2. d4 ed4 3. Qxd4 Nc6 4. Qa4!? 


A possible refinement of this is 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.d4 exd4 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Qa4, somewhat reducing Black's options.

The Swede Per Sorenfors has published some analysis of this (calling it the 'New Malmo variation').
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #52 - 10/02/05 at 09:44:38
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As an occasional scandinavian player, I have (in blitz) tried 1. e4 e5 2. d4 ed4 3. Qxd4 Nc6 4. Qa4!? thanks to an old SOS article in NIC. Compared to the Scandi, White's extra tempo has given him a pawn in the centre, which allows him to equalise!   Wink
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #51 - 10/02/05 at 09:22:16
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1...Nf6 certainly is fine, Taljechin.  But I have never had reason to worry about the Englund Gambit (1.d4 e5) as White.  As Black, I'd be ecstatic to play against it!  It would mean that my opponent had just given me an extra "White" in the tournament and played a dubious line, to boot!


Well, the point' of 1...Nf6! was just to avoid white's idea of playing black with white... Though the Englund may not be one of the 10 best choices, it isn't completely idiotic either. I have 100% with it as black myself, and it will stay that way, i.e. I won't play it a 2nd time! Grin
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #50 - 10/02/05 at 09:06:26
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Funny thing... someone suggested her 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3.  Now i tried it in blitz, and it dosent look so bad. If anyone could give analysis of major options for both sides from this point, id be glad.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #49 - 10/02/05 at 07:10:30
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1...Nf6 certainly is fine, Taljechin.  But I have never had reason to worry about the Englund Gambit (1.d4 e5) as White.  As Black, I'd be ecstatic to play against it!  It would mean that my opponent had just given me an extra "White" in the tournament and played a dubious line, to boot!  I think that from a practical perspective Black would have a real (regardless of how small) edge after 1.e3 d5 2.e4. 

Of course, Black also has good chances at equality after 1...Nf6, but then White may try to switch to some sort of English or other semi-closed position in which an early e3 isn't so harmless.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #48 - 10/02/05 at 02:45:15
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The position after 2.e4 can also be reached after 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1. I think this was played in a game between Per Thorén and N-G Renman.


So after 1.e3 I suppose 1...Nf6! is the answer as white wouldn't want to lose both a tempo and a pawn with 2.e4? (1...d5 2.e4 would be an Englund gambit).

Btw, maybe this e3-e4 stuff has a following in Sweden, as I remember Kaj Falinder using it in Öppna SM 1991 lr 93, and winning in about 20 moves after 1.e3 e5 2.e4.

In the game you mention, Thorén had a fun point, as Renman wouldn't be expected to know his open games as well as his french defence...

(Though I did see him play the KG as white in a blitz game, an ½ hour before a round in Elitserien a few years ago.)
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #47 - 10/02/05 at 02:12:34
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Toppy,

Your posts tonight are lacking some of your usual insights.  I hope you find a thread that really grabs your interest tonight!
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #46 - 10/02/05 at 02:08:15
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1.e4 e5 2.a3

Now black can't play a reversed Ruy Lopez, and the Ruy Lopez is the best of the best. So maybe there is a method to the madness after all.

Or is there?

Toppy Grin
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #45 - 10/02/05 at 01:57:45
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When White plays an early a3 without provocation it shows a blatant disregard for Nimzovich's warning about wiping smut off your nose at the start of a race.  2.a3 (or 3.a3) doesn't lose for White, but White has clearly stumbled out of the opening blocks.  I'm sure there are plenty of lines where an early a3 can help White.  But there are also plenty of lines where it's just a baroque move. 

These lines don't throw away the game for White.  And in the age of computer analysis, it may be a way to reach a fairly unusual position.  But we don't need to take such extraordinary measures to make chess interesting. 

For me, when White plays 2.a3 he does it to get a rise out of me personally.  That's fine, but beyond its psychological effect, I don't see any need to spend a lot of time analysing possible variations when Black has so many good ways to develop.

Let others worry about whether it's equal.  Black can easily achieve his primary goals in any opening:  develop his pieces, fight for control of the center, and protect his king.  2.a3 doesn't help White to achieve any of the above and allows Black to accomplish all of the above.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #44 - 10/01/05 at 22:34:59
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Well MNb you're forgetting about 5.h3!  Hmmm, oh nevermind.  It certainly looks equal to me.  Even systems with ...d6 or ...g6 look pretty solid with White having spent a tempo on a3.  
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #43 - 10/01/05 at 15:23:49
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Isn't 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Be7 idea 5...o-o and 6...d5 completely equal? Note 5.Bc4 Nxe4!
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #42 - 10/01/05 at 09:07:56
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Long ago, pawns could only move one square on their first move.  I suppose many games started like this:  1.e3 e6 2.e4 e5.  Seems pretty silly now, but I wonder which of our current rules will look just as silly to players 200 years from now?

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #41 - 10/01/05 at 08:58:06
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Btw, my opponent displayed a sense of chesshumour, as he later opened 1.e3 and after 1...e5 played 2.e4, and then I hadn't the heart to play 2...a6


The position after 2.e4 can also be reached after 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 e5 3.Qd1. I think this was played in a game between Per Thorén and N-G Renman.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #40 - 10/01/05 at 08:33:59
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Anyone else notice I always want to play f4 in the double e-pawn openings? 


Well, you're not alone! Cheesy

As for the Mengarini stuff, it's really confusing by now, with all the pros and cons of every possible or impossible opening being better or worse in some way or another.  Undecided

Btw, just noticed that Kaufmann gives 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.a3 d5! with black playing a Scotch 4-Knights with the less useful move a3 in for white (or rather, black  ??? ) - which is very similar to CWisnewski idea against ...a6 - though I'm still not sure that a3 is so obviously unimportant here either.

At least 2/3/4.a3 is a fun way of recycling one's knowledge of the Open Games.  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #39 - 10/01/05 at 07:47:49
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Anyone else notice I always want to play f4 in the double e-pawn openings?
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #38 - 10/01/05 at 04:50:06
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Hugh Myers wrote a book on 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3 called "Reversed King's Pawns: Mengarini's Opening" (if memory serves me correct).  I believe Hugh went on to explain that 2.a3 was actually Mengarini's idea and that 2.Nc3 Nf6 was his refinement.  Although I do know that Hugh had also at least thought about playing 2.a3 as well.  I remember him mentioning to me the 1.e4 e5 2.a3 f5 3.Bc4 idea and him wondering if 3.Qf3 was better or worse than 1.e4 e4 2.f4 Qf6 was for Black. 

After 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3 a6, what about the old try 4.f4?  I remember some of Black's better defences involving a ...Bb4 move.  Probably Black has other good ways to a good game but how about 4...d5 5.d3!? trying to play it as a reverse Philidor counter-gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 f5)  with an extra Nc3 thrown in (of course a3 and ...a6 thrown in as well).  Ok, that's probably hoping for too much but might be a decent blitz weapon.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #37 - 09/30/05 at 13:48:54
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Not sure if I'm just duplicating Cwisnewski's post above, but the article on the Gunsberg can be found in SOS - Volume 1.  It's followed by an article about an early a3 in the Austrian vs the Pirc which, if memory serves me correctly, was used by Glenn Flear a couple of years ago to win a nice game (I think!!).

If you have the individual issues of NIC - the Gunsberg article is in the 2001/8 edition with the fantastic tribute to Tony Miles by Genna Sosonko.

Combine these 2 with the French Wing gambit (also in SOS 1) and 2 a3 vs the Sicilian and that's nearly a repertoire!
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #36 - 09/30/05 at 04:48:59
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Well, I don't buy it, since ...a6 is often a necessary defensive move for black while a3 is not so necessary.

True, black loses Bb4 options but white loses his Bb5/Nb5 options too - which are more common in the theoretical lines, and both king's bishops can hide on a2/a7.


Edit:

Hmm, there's actually 20 games with 3.a3 a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 with white scoring extremely well. Though, I suppose that's because black usually plays 6...Nxd4 or 6...d6.

But 6...Bc5 still looks OK for black, though I have to admit that having a3/a6 included here doesn't seem to harm white's chances. So it might be +=  Undecided


After a quick look, the only 2 instances where a3/a6 might make a difference would be:

Miles-Sorin & Miles-Hebden where black would gain the option of ...Ba7 after 13.Na4 and 10.Na4

and

possibly those cases where black goes Bb6 allowing Be3xb6,

After 7.Be3 - the only one game with a3/a6 went 7...Nxd4 8.Bxd4 Qe7 instead, and black even went on to win, though the game continuation 9.Be2 d6 10.Bxc5 dxc5 looks like a nice structural advantage for white á la the Echange Ruy - however, black got pressure on e4 pretty quick so maybe it's not that simple...  Undecided



Pirttimaki,T (2295) - Nippula,T [C47]
FIN-chT FIN, 1993

1.e4 e5 2.a3 a6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 Bc5 7.Be3 Nxd4 8.Bxd4 Qe7 9.Be2 d6 10.Bxc5 dxc5 11.0-0 0-0 12.Qd3 Re8 13.Rad1 Bd7 14.f3 Rad8 15.Qe3 Bc6 16.Rfe1 h6 17.e5 Rd4 18.f4 Red8 19.Bf3 Nd5 20.Nxd5 Bxd5 21.c3 Bxf3 22.Qxf3 Rxd1 23.Rxd1 b6 24.h3 Qh4 25.Rxd8+ Qxd8 26.f5 Qh4 27.Kh2 Qe1 28.Qf4 Qe2 29.h4 a5 30.Kh3 Qxb2 31.f6 Qxc3+ 32.Kh2 Qd4 33.Qg3 g6 34.Kh1 Qe4 35.Kg1 c4 36.Qc3 c5 37.a4 Qd4+ 0-1



Ochoa de Echaguen,F (2405) - Cuevas Rodriguez,M (2200) [C47]
ESP-chT ESP (4), 1992

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 Bc5 6.Be3 Nxd4 7.Bxd4 Qe7 8.Be2 d6 9.0-0 0-0 10.Bxc5 dxc5 11.Bf3 c6 12.Qe2 Qe5 13.Rad1 Be6 14.Qd3 Nd7 15.Be2 f5 16.f4 fxe4 17.Qxe4 Qxe4 18.Nxe4 Bd5 19.Nd6 b6 20.c4 Be6 21.g3 Nf6 22.f5 Bf7 23.Bf3 Bh5 24.Bxh5 Nxh5 25.g4 Nf6 26.g5 Ne8 27.Ne4 Nc7 28.Rd7 Rf7 29.Rxf7 Kxf7 30.Rd1 Ke7 31.Rd6 Ne8 32.Rxc6 Rd8 33.Re6+ Kf7 34.Re5 Rd4 35.b3 Rd1+ 36.Kg2 Ra1 37.g6+ hxg6 38.fxg6+ Kf8 39.Ng5 Rxa2+ 40.Kg3 Nf6 41.Nh7+ Kg8 42.Nxf6+ gxf6 43.Re7 Ra3 44.Kg4 Rxb3 45.h4 Rb1 46.Rxa7 1-0

  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #35 - 09/30/05 at 04:35:44
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@Taljechin

Certainly the Scotch Four Knights. With Black being unable to play ...Bb4, White should be able to obtain at least a small advantage.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #34 - 09/30/05 at 04:23:57
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Gioco Piannissimo. Black lacks the immediate Na5 equaliser. So the a3-a6-Canal may very slightly benefit from this inclusion. Grin
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #33 - 09/30/05 at 04:10:01
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How about the Gunsberg Variation?

1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3!? with the idea that 3...d5 does not work because of 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Qh5! when ...Nb4 is not possible.

Normally, game transposes into a Scotch Four Knights with a useful extra tempo a3 (which prevents ...Nb4 and ...Bb4 in numerous occasions). White may not have much, but it is easy to play, not much theory, and it has more than one drop of poison.

There has been an article in a "New In Chess"-Issue (S.O.S.), but I have been unable to locate it on the net so far...


This seems to be the same idea as Mengarini's 2.a3, which I mentioned above.

Anyway, how would you meet 3...a6,? I.e. is there any open game where white *benefits* from having a3/a6 inserted? ???
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #32 - 09/30/05 at 03:52:44
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How about the Gunsberg Variation?

1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3!? with the idea that 3...d5 does not work because of 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Qh5! when ...Nb4 is not possible.

Normally, game transposes into a Scotch Four Knights with a useful extra tempo a3 (which prevents ...Nb4 and ...Bb4 in numerous occasions). White may not have much, but it is easy to play, not much theory, and it has more than one drop of poison.

There has been an article in a "New In Chess"-Issue (S.O.S.), but I have been unable to locate it on the net so far...
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #31 - 09/29/05 at 21:05:38
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@Smyslov_Fan
I own a small, but really not bad chess library. Chess Player from Nottingham has published a booklet on the Centre Game and Danish Gambit back in 1976, written by LM Pickett. Detail: there is also a book on the Bird, same publisher, written by LM Picket.
He does mention 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3 Be7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Qg3 with two games:
Charousek-Eksner, Budapest 1897.
Winawer-Janovski, Nürnberg 1896.
Picket(t) quotes Panov: 6...Nb4! =.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #30 - 09/29/05 at 10:07:00
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John,

Thanks for the info!

I was rather hoping my idea was fresh.  I guess not. Cry

Is Emms' book worth getting for the generalist?  That is, I don't specialize in this stuff, is his analysis interesting enough for people who wouldn't necessarily play these lines in tournaments?
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #29 - 09/29/05 at 08:03:05
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Hello,

Emms book mentions 6.Qg3 after 1.e4 e5 2.d4!? ed4 3.Qd4!? Nc6 4.Qe3 Nf6  5.Nc3 Be7 6.Qg3

I looked this up after a game on ICC. In the game was unsure, what I was going to play after 6.Qg3, and  5.e5 earlier, so played 4...Bb4+ which looks ok too,  especially after the played  5c3?!. In fact, Emms does not rate either move. Aleady managed to forget what the exact line was, but black gambits the g-pawn I think..
              Other threads mention analysis mistakes in this book, but havn't seen any yet, but mostly looking at the more solid lines at the moment. In general, finding the less theoretical lines at lot easier to handle after 1...e5, than when I was trying 1..c5.

Bye John S
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #28 - 09/29/05 at 04:18:39
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Bruce,

I know I give a lot of advice, but here's two pieces of advice that I really live by:

1) Make sure you're having fun.  If chess becomes a chore for you, take a break.

2) Make sure you have clear goals and some way to measure improvement with your coach.  If your coach doesn't set goals with you within the first two or three sessions, seriously consider looking for another coach, or at the very least insist that you set up goals.   

Too many coaches think they're teaching chess when in reality they're just showing off how good they are.  Make sure that you are actually learning! 

Oh, and when in doubt, refer back to #1! 8)

I hope this helps, and that you work well with your coach!
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #27 - 09/29/05 at 04:10:04
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I don't think Svidler-Adams means anything to an 1800 like me. Anyway thanks for everyone who told me not to play 1.e4, or told me "chess isnt simple, dont make it boring". never mind, im getting a coach in a month or so, let him offer me something.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #26 - 09/28/05 at 22:46:01
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Boy, MNb, you are responding quickly to the posts tonight.  Did you get a chance to analyse the lines I gave in my previous message?

I'll talk more about the Petroff's in a Petroff's thread, but I'll give a broad answer here.

Generally, White does indeed have a slight advantage in the Petroff's, but it's clearly not always enough to win.  The game between Svidler and Adams in round 1 of the World Championship seems to support your claim, but I think we'll see more serious challenges to the Petroff as the tournament heats up.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #25 - 09/28/05 at 22:40:36
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Isn't White the one to prove an edge after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 ? And even if he succeeds, to create real winning chances? This is clearly not a simple task.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #24 - 09/28/05 at 22:23:11
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I don't see why chess should be simple.  Let's see what happens when White plays the best moves.  Isn't Black the one who has to prove equality after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3?

And if you want a little-known opening that has scored well in the past, here's a good blitz opening:

1.e4 e5 2.d4!? ed4 3.Qd4!? Nc6 4.Qe3 Nf6

(4...Bb4+ Nc3 leads to similar positions).  4...g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Bd2 d6?! (Nf6) 7.0-0-0 Nf6 8.f4!)

5.Nc3 Be7 6.Qg3!

5....Bb4+! 6.Bd2 0-0 7.0-0-0 and it's an unusual, unclear game.  It's theoretically equal, but it would certainly score in many games.

8.f4 and 6.Qg3 aren't in any publications that I know of, yet both promise interesting and probably advantageous play for White.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #23 - 09/28/05 at 04:37:28
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Right, MnB, we finally arrived where I thought we'd end up all along...
(Although I cannot resist the temptation that you can get these types of positions by way of 1.Nc3)

  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #22 - 09/15/05 at 15:37:12
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1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 isn't a bad choice at all, though Black can equalize with d5 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Bg2 Bxc3 6.bxc3 Bd6. The resulting position is still full of play.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #21 - 09/15/05 at 05:27:14
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yeah.... 2.a3 dosen't really hit the mark for me... i wasn't planning to play g3 immideatly, but Nc3 then g3. four knights g3 system is problematic since i want to castle and play f4, and the knight on f3 is in the way. Anyway guess ill have to try a few things before i can be sure whats right for me.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #20 - 09/15/05 at 04:51:04
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I doubt there is any way to punish 2.a3!? (after 1.e4 e5).  Black could try 1.e4 e5 2.a3 Nf6 3.Nc3 Bc5 4.Nf3 (I've played 4.f4!? here based on Tim McGrew's analysis of this with reversed colors, but although a3 certainly helps it's a risky way to play.) 4...d6 which looks pretty solid. 


I tried 2.a3 on the net yesterday, (1½/2 vs a 2200 player). He played 2...Nc6 twice, 3.Nf3 Bc5 4.Nxe5 Bxf2 was how the first game went, and in the 2nd I tried something completely different, 4.b4 Bb6 5.b5 Nd4 6.Nxe5 with a complete mess. It was surely more fun than 2.g3... Cheesy

Btw, my opponent displayed a sense of chesshumour, as he later opened 1.e3 and after 1...e5 played 2.e4, and then I hadn't the heart to play 2...a6  Roll Eyes

Actually, after 1.e4 e5 2.a3 black should perhaps try 2...a6 himself, and white has probably just limited his own prospects at least if he intends to play any of the big open games with a3,a6 inserted...
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #19 - 09/14/05 at 20:55:41
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I do. Either you chose a simple opening and allow your opponent easy ways to equalize or you must work for it. A fourth part of a century ago Janos Flesch already warned, that the Morra Gambit is not a miracle cure. IMO this is true for all openings.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #18 - 09/14/05 at 11:38:17
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Does anyone else feel that the whole idea of making chess "simple" is misguided from the beginning?  After all, it's a mental game that's supposed to be challenging!  Let's hope that both sides seek interesting games rather than "simple" ones.  That's what checkers (draughts) and tic-tac-to are for!  Grin
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #17 - 09/14/05 at 11:00:27
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I doubt there is any way to punish 2.a3!? (after 1.e4 e5).  Black could try 1.e4 e5 2.a3 Nf6 3.Nc3 Bc5 4.Nf3 (I've played 4.f4!? here based on Tim McGrew's analysis of this with reversed colors, but although a3 certainly helps it's a risky way to play.) 4...d6 which looks pretty solid.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #16 - 09/14/05 at 04:56:58
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Quote:
Up untill now ive been playing 2.Bc4, with the ds, c3,
0-0, Nd2 setup, more or less. But im feeling this line isnt for me, and more often than not i struggle for equality...

So i need something new, but before everyone jumps with ideas:
1.Not the Ruy Lopez
2.No gambit lines
3.No lines allowing black nasty gambits (for example   
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 is out of the question)

Just something with a simple plan,

suggestions?


If you already answer 1.e4 with e5, then *a very simple plan* is 1.e4 e5 2.a3 á la Mengarini. If black isn't an e4 player you should get a practical advantage from just being more aquainted with the basic positions.

And even if black does play 1.e4, he can hardly play the Lopez now, and the Scotch could be met with Qh5 as Nb4 isn't possible...

Anyway, it's less boring than a g3 set-up, more provocative, and probably not worse either! Actually, how would black punish 2.a3? 2...f5 suggests itself of course Wink but after e.g. 3.Bc4 white's a3 is a tempo up on a classical KGD...
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #15 - 09/14/05 at 04:34:47
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Quote:
You might actually consider the Glek Variation of the Four Knights - 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.g3. Pinski covers it pretty well in his book on the 4 Knights, and there are a few games annotated by ChessPub as well. The only nasty black gambit that you might have to watch out for is 4...Nxe4!?, which at any rate is little known (Pinski doesn't mention it in his book IIRC).


There are three instructive lectures involving games against strong players using the Glek by Josh Waitzkin on the Chessmaster CD; the games are v Blatny, Christiansen and Lazovic.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #14 - 09/14/05 at 01:25:19
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Quote:
The only nasty black gambit that you might have to watch out for is 4...Nxe4!?, which at any rate is little known (Pinski doesn't mention it in his book IIRC). 


If you find that gambit annoying, just play 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Nc3 d4 7.Bg2. After 7...dxc3 8.bxc3, you have the same position as after 4...d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 Nxc3 7.bxc3, which you will have to be prepared for anyway.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #13 - 09/13/05 at 22:49:42
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You might actually consider the Glek Variation of the Four Knights - 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.g3. Pinski covers it pretty well in his book on the 4 Knights, and there are a few games annotated by ChessPub as well. The only nasty black gambit that you might have to watch out for is 4...Nxe4!?, which at any rate is little known (Pinski doesn't mention it in his book IIRC).
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #12 - 09/13/05 at 18:21:09
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Thanks for the input... I guess. Wasnt expecting that almost everyone will offer me to quit playing 1.e4....
im simply very used to the g3 idea, since thats my main setup against anything other than e5 (sicilian, CK, french, etc). Maybe i should keep looking, try the 4 knights like someone suggested. It dosent look boring to me, guess cause im used to the closed setup.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #11 - 09/13/05 at 13:14:10
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1. Nf3

g3, Bg2, 0-0, d3, Nbd2, e4/c4, (yawn)
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #10 - 09/13/05 at 09:12:43
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In addition to Andrew's suggestion: the Reti. Also a KB fianchetto system..
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #9 - 09/13/05 at 06:40:19
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Sounds to me like you'd better give up 1e4 and play the English as you seem to like to fianchetto the Bishop.

But whatever your choice, you'd probably be as well to try and work on your tactics and the plans behind your openings.

Best of luck

Andrew
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #8 - 09/13/05 at 03:09:03
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I would definately recommend the Ruy with c3 and d3 iso the main lines. It may seem stupid to advise the Ruy, since you dont want to play it. However I am presuming that that is because you are scared to have to go through loads of theory. However the Ruy like the sicilian can be played in many ways. You can play for the 4 knights, the exchange, my d3/c3 recommendation, the main lines and a lot of others are possible. All of them are decent enough and you can basically pick according to taste and laziness. The d3/c3 system of the Ruy as opposed to your system has the advantage that the bishop is better placed, either it is allowed to stay on b5 or at some point you can drop it back to c2 supporting the e4 pawn. If you play such a system you have the advantage that it is easier to "upgrade" later, because many ideas are similar to the Ruy main lines.

In stead if you play those g3 systems or the Vienna with f4, you will see that those openings work up to a certain level. They are certainly not bad openings, it is just that as your opponents improve it gets difficult to creat pressure.

I also 2nd Paddy's suggestion of the scotch. It is a nice middle road between theory and activity. If Kasparov plays it and wins with it it cant be that bad.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #7 - 09/12/05 at 20:04:41
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Quote:
Up untill now ive been playing 2.Bc4, with the ds, c3,
0-0, Nd2 setup, more or less. But im feeling this line isnt for me, and more often than not i struggle for equality...

So i need something new, but before everyone jumps with ideas:
1.Not the Ruy Lopez
2.No gambit lines
3.No lines allowing black nasty gambits (for example   
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 is out of the question)

Just something with a simple plan, im considering trying 2.Nc3 with the idea of playing g3, Ne2, Bg2, 0-0 and then f4.
suggestions?


Well you don't like the Positional Italian (with d3 and c3); you don't want the Lopez, otherwise the Exchange Var would definitely be an option; I think the "Straight Scotch" these days probably has too much analysis; so what are we left with? Maybe the Scotch Four Knights (a lot of Russian juniors used to be taught to play that on their way up the rankings, e.g.

[Event "URS-qualJ Sochi"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1990.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rublevsky, S."]
[Black "Novik, M."]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C47"]
[WhiteElo "2300"]
[BlackElo "2390"]
[PlyCount "55"]
[EventDate "1990.??.??"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. d4 exd4 5. Nxd4 Bb4 6. Nxc6 bxc6 7. Bd3 d5 8.exd5 cxd5 9. O-O O-O 10. Bg5 c6 11. Qf3 Be7 12. Rae1 h6 13. Bxh6 gxh6 14. Qe3 Be6 15. Qxh6 Bd6 16. Qg5+ Kh8 17. f4 Re8 18. Rf3 Ng8 19. Qh5+ Kg7 20. Rg3+ Kf8 21. Rxg8+ Kxg8 22. Qh7+ Kf8 23. Qh6+ Kg8 24. Bh7+ Kh8 25. Bf5+ Kg8 26. Qh7+ Kf8 27. Qh8+ Ke7 28. Rxe6+ 1-0

Or maybe the Bishops/Vienna complex as in Emms's white repertoire book. Theoretically it is not very threatening to Black, but it's reasonably solid, you get the pieces out and in some lines you get to attack with f2-f4.

re the Vienna with 3 g3, I know some good players have played it, and of course White can get away with a lot, but I can't bring myself to believe in any White system that opens 1 e4 e5 but then develops the bishop at g2! Come on, it's just not logical - to adapt one of Gufeld's sayings, " just ask the bishop about it!".

Seriously, if you open 1 e4 e5, you want a strong "first serve", but that won't come without effort. In the long run you probably have to learn the Lopez.







  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #6 - 09/12/05 at 19:46:13
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1.e4 e5 2.d4 ed4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3.

Don't laugh.  I've played this 5 or 6 times in rated tournament games.  Scored 50%

Simple enough?

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #5 - 09/12/05 at 19:12:58
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Im 19 years old, rated 1800. hoping to advance up to 1900 in the next year, maybe a tad higher. Thought bout 1.d4, but there are so many deviations black can take, i dont have time to switch to 1.d4 succesfully.
  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #4 - 09/12/05 at 12:33:43
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Hi Paddy,

d4 is a good alternative. The downside is that Bruce might have to be prepared to face all the Indians & Benonis which are very heavy going on theory.

The Colle is a good simple system for 1.d4 d5 if he gets that chance.
  

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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #3 - 09/12/05 at 12:10:46
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Quote:
Up untill now ive been playing 2.Bc4, with the ds, c3,
0-0, Nd2 setup, more or less. But im feeling this line isnt for me, and more often than not i struggle for equality...

So i need something new, but before everyone jumps with ideas:
1.Not the Ruy Lopez
2.No gambit lines
3.No lines allowing black nasty gambits (for example   
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 is out of the question)

Just something with a simple plan, im considering trying 2.Nc3 with the idea of playing g3, Ne2, Bg2, 0-0 and then f4.
suggestions?


It sounds like you'd be more comfortable opening with 1 d4! Seriously though, a lot depends on such variables as your age, how strong you already are, how serious you are about improving, how much time you have to devote, whether you just want to beat that big-head in the bar round the corner, just once...

Also check out other posts at this forum where this and similar topics have been discused many times.

  
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #2 - 09/12/05 at 10:54:39
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If the last line of the posting is all that you are aiming for..... might as well give up the idea of 1.e4 e5 & go for a King's Indian Attack instead. That proposed passive buildup will just give the initiative to black.

At least with the KIA, you can spring into action at the appropriate time. It folllows a coiled spring concept- The more compact your formation the greater the potential energy it possesses, once unleashed its very forceful.

Mpve order for white =>1.Nf3 2.g3 3.Bg2 4.0-0 5.d3 etc ec
  

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condor
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Re: Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
Reply #1 - 09/12/05 at 10:30:23
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How about giving up before you bore your opponents to death?
  
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Bruce
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Simple 1.e4 e5 opening for white
09/12/05 at 09:23:35
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Up untill now ive been playing 2.Bc4, with the ds, c3,
0-0, Nd2 setup, more or less. But im feeling this line isnt for me, and more often than not i struggle for equality...

So i need something new, but before everyone jumps with ideas:
1.Not the Ruy Lopez
2.No gambit lines
3.No lines allowing black nasty gambits (for example   
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 is out of the question)

Just something with a simple plan, im considering trying 2.Nc3 with the idea of playing g3, Ne2, Bg2, 0-0 and then f4.

suggestions?
  
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