Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) QGD Exchange game (Read 8802 times)
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #22 - 06/18/07 at 03:18:08
Post Tools
Yermo's book is The Road to Chess Improvement.

Regarding Nge2 in the QGE:  Of course the main idea of Nge2 is to play f3 and e4, but the move allows for quite a bit of interpretation.  According to the theoreticians, Nge2 is White's only real way to play for a win.  The older QGE with Nf3 is considered fairly toothless.

With Nge2, White doesn't even have to play Bg5-h4-f2 to get interesting play, and Black will never get to play the Cambridge Springs proper.  There are some oldish books which cover the QGE with Nge2 quite well, special props go to Burgess and Pederson's The Queen's Gambit for the Attacking Player.

Anyway,  White doesn't have to play f3 and e4 to play for an advantage after Nge2.  I've seen one game in which White eventually played Nge2-c1-d3-e5 and pushed d4-d5 without playing e4 and got a great game.  I think the plan is too slow to work in most cases, but there are alternatives to f3 and e4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sssthepro
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 439
Joined: 12/16/06
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #21 - 06/18/07 at 02:23:33
Post Tools
I think that if you want to pursue a minority attack, the knight should be on f3, because it controls more of the central squares. Since you are going to concentrate your pieces on the queenside, maybe more control of the centre is good. The knight can also hop to e5 if allowed.

Also, Nge2 is good as well, but only when you pursue the f3-e4 idea. If not, the knight on e2 seems worse because it controls less squares than a knight on f3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cma6
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 168
Location: US
Joined: 07/17/04
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #20 - 06/10/07 at 21:32:25
Post Tools
Willempie wrote on 09/20/05 at 05:21:14:
Yermolinsky has an interesting chapter on this line, outlining 4 basic plans for white and why some plans dont work under certain circumstances and others do. Even I liked going through it, despite that I find it a boring line.


Which Yermolinsky book is this?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cma6
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 168
Location: US
Joined: 07/17/04
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #19 - 06/10/07 at 21:31:36
Post Tools
Quote:
I think Kozlov's games are worth noting, since he seems to have a lot of experience with this line as Black, and is probably one of the strongest players who plays this line consistently (the plan of 6...Bd6 followed kingside castling).  In fact, when I researched this line earlier, I flagged Kozlov as the main model player of the Black side, since his plans seemed to most closely resemble the plans employed by the aforementioned expert.  So if one is to play 8.Nf3, White should look for improvements in Voloshin-Kozlov, since I think Kozlov's plan is one of the strongest lines at Black's disposal.  Nice concept from Black, but not much of a game to by.  In fact, I am having trouble finding a way to play for an advantage against Kozlov's plan when White castles queenside (11.O-O-O).  To be honest, I feel more comfortable with White's position after 11.O-O instead of 11.O-O-O.  Does anyone have insight into these positions?  I feel more inexperienced at handling these Nf3 QGD Exchange lines than the Nge2 variations.  Though to be honest, I have little experience in both.


Henrichs argues convincingly that the whole ...Bd6 line is inferior for Black (White should play 0-0): 5 Bg5, Nbd7; 6 e3, c6; 7 Bd3, Bd6; 8 Nge2 (Janjgava's recommendation), Nf8; 9 f3, Ne6; 10 Bh4, Qc7; 11 Rc1, g5; 12 Bf2, h5; 13 Qd2 (with idea 14 Nb5), Qb8; 14 Bg3, h4; 15 Bxd6, Qxd6; 16 Bf5, Rg8; 17 e4 with nice edge for White. (Klima-Sevcak, 1994).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #18 - 09/21/05 at 02:15:30
Post Tools
(FYI:  If you go to a music store in America, you will find Tchaikovsky in the "T's".  This is a throw-back to some of the old Germanic-English linguists who tried to create a universal latin pronounciation.  Well, it didn't work.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10567
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #17 - 09/21/05 at 00:13:50
Post Tools
"choo choo train"
Here you are. If you want to explain a Dutchman, how to pronounce this, you can write tsjoe tsjoe treen. That's why I spell the composer's name
Pjotr Tsjaikovski (or y).

The combination ch is in Dutch almost always the same as the guttural g. That is why Chalifman for me makes more sense than Khalifman.
Do not mind about the Russian alphabet, I know it a bit - it is similar to the Greek one.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #16 - 09/20/05 at 23:09:14
Post Tools
In English, probably the most straight-forward way to write the composer of the Nutcracker's name is:

Pyotr Chaikovsky.  I don't have a Cyrrilic keyboard, so I can't really show you the Russian.

Khalifman actually makes sense in English.  The letter X (kha) is pronounced by preparing to say "Ka" but you don't use your larynx.  It sounds very much like the ch in "Bach".  But if you put Ch at the front of a word in English, it's usually pronounce "ch" as in choo choo train.  (English has so many exceptions however, that general rules often fail when trying to spell.  For instance, "Christmas" is pronounced as a "K".)

There is no "h" sound in Russian, and one of the dead give-aways for a Russian accent is how they pronounce their 'h's.   When Botvinnik was first writing about his protege, Garrik, he made the mistake of translating his name to "Harry Kasparov!"

Okay, I know, that has nothing to do with the QGD Exchange.  Sorry, SORRY!  Nothing to see here, let's move along!   Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10567
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #15 - 09/20/05 at 22:22:57
Post Tools
In every language the spelling of Russian names is different I am afraid. The English version does not make much sense to me either. Sometimes an y, sometimes an i is used for the same sound. Moreover I have always found it silly to write Chalifman as Khalifman - the correct pronunciation is really not with a hard k.
Smyslov_fan, could you give a fonetic spelling for Kortchnoi or Tchaikovsky? I cannot assume, that it is with the guttural g, which is so popular in both Dutch and Arab.
I would welcome a logical and understandable standardization, as I own CD's from:
Tchaikovsky
Tchaikovski
and Tschaikowsky

Moreover I have seen
Tschaikowski
Tchaïkovski
Cajkovskij
Ciaikovski
and probably I have missed a few.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kevinludwig
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 233
Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 06/13/04
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #14 - 09/20/05 at 12:31:42
Post Tools
WOW!! You guys have come up with a lot of stuff for me to look through! This is great, thanks everyone.

tafl: I think you may be onto something in regard to the knight being better on f3 than on e2. I had a hunch that was the case--And now I have an actual reason why that might be true. In the lines where white castles queenside, sometimes black starts a pawn storm immediately with b7-b5. When the knight is on f3, black's b5-b4 isn't as annoying to deal with since the c3 knight can drop back to e2. In the lines where white plays Nge2, the only option I think is Na4, which might not be as convenient.

X: I'll have a look at Kozlov's games to see what I think.

Smyslov_Fan: I'll be sure to look at Jussupow-Nogueiras.

Anyway, gotta get back to work. Thanks again.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #13 - 09/20/05 at 09:40:20
Post Tools
Boy,

I now know my memory isn't what it used to be.  I bet it was indeed the Yusupov-Nogeiras game that I was thinking of when I spoke of the Beliavsky-Granda Zuniga game.

BTW, I know ChessBase has a lot to answer for in its transliterations of Russian names to the Latin alphabet, but I just don't get the way the Dutch and others here are spelling Russian names.  Ok, Yusupov is now a German citizen (isn't he?), and has probably legally changed his name.

But how on earth does the letter "Che" become tsj or whatever it is?  The "Che" in Korchnoi is hard, there's no "s" sound in it.  At least not in Russian.  Angry

I can accept that Belyavsky ("Ya" is a single letter in Russian) can be changed to Beliavsky as long as everyone knows it's not Bel-ee-av-skee, but some of these others are just plain ugly and don't make much sense to me.  (I do know that "ch" in German is often pronounce "kh", but that could be fixed by spelling his name: Kortchnoi!)

Okay, enough ranting about mispronounciations and spellings!  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
X
God Member
*****
Offline


Education is a system
of imposed ignorance.Chomsky

Posts: 571
Joined: 10/04/03
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #12 - 09/20/05 at 08:57:05
Post Tools
I think Kozlov's games are worth noting, since he seems to have a lot of experience with this line as Black, and is probably one of the strongest players who plays this line consistently (the plan of 6...Bd6 followed kingside castling).  In fact, when I researched this line earlier, I flagged Kozlov as the main model player of the Black side, since his plans seemed to most closely resemble the plans employed by the aforementioned expert.  So if one is to play 8.Nf3, White should look for improvements in Voloshin-Kozlov, since I think Kozlov's plan is one of the strongest lines at Black's disposal.  Nice concept from Black, but not much of a game to by.  In fact, I am having trouble finding a way to play for an advantage against Kozlov's plan when White castles queenside (11.O-O-O).  To be honest, I feel more comfortable with White's position after 11.O-O instead of 11.O-O-O.  Does anyone have insight into these positions?  I feel more inexperienced at handling these Nf3 QGD Exchange lines than the Nge2 variations.  Though to be honest, I have little experience in both.
  

Power to the People!&&http://www.gravel2008.us/           http://www.nationalinitiative.us/&&Mike Gravel for President 2008
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #11 - 09/20/05 at 06:11:01
Post Tools
Yeah you're right, though I think (havent got the book here) he has some comment about a potential Bf4-d6 standoff. Will check if it applies or not.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tafl
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 380
Location: Norway
Joined: 05/27/05
Gender: Male
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #10 - 09/20/05 at 05:57:12
Post Tools
I am quite sure Yermolinsky only examines lines with an early ...Be7.
  

A computer once beat me at chess but it was no match for me at kick boxing - Emo Philips
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #9 - 09/20/05 at 05:21:14
Post Tools
Yermolinsky has an interesting chapter on this line, outlining 4 basic plans for white and why some plans dont work under certain circumstances and others do. Even I liked going through it, despite that I find it a boring line.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tafl
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 380
Location: Norway
Joined: 05/27/05
Gender: Male
Re: QGD Exchange game
Reply #8 - 09/20/05 at 04:21:51
Post Tools
Castling first is rare, and very hard for Black to play, as he has problems untangling his queenside. After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.e3 Bd6 7.Nf3 Nbd7 8.Bd3 0-0 9.Qc2, the h-pawn is already hanging. And 9...h6 weakens the king's position, making h3 and g4 very tempting. Statistics often are misleading, but I believe White's 70% score in 155 games in my (admittedly old) database tells something about the position.

I think this game illustrates Black's problems (even though Black plays fairly weakly):

Ivanov,I - Johnstone,G [D35]
CAN-op Winnipeg (5), 1994
1.d4 e6 2.c4 d5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.cxd5 exd5 6.e3 c6 7.Nc3 Bd6 8.Bd3 0-0 9.Qc2 h6 10.Bh4 Re8 11.0-0-0 Nf8 12.Kb1 Bg4 13.h3 Bh5 14.g4 Bg6 15.g5 Bh5 16.gxf6 Bxf3 17.Rhg1 g5 18.Bxg5 hxg5 19.Rxg5+ Kh8 20.Rdg1 Nd7 21.Be2 Qxf6 22.Bxf3 Qxf3 23.R1g4 Qh1+ 24.Nd1 Qxh3 25.Qf5 1-0

Black, however, has one nice tactical idea:

Voloshin,L - Kozlov,O [D35]
Decin op-A Decin (9), 1998
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 c6 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Bg5 Nbd7 7.e3 Bd6 8.Qc2 0-0 9.Bd3 h6 10.Bh4 Re8 11.0-0-0 Qa5 12.Kb1 Ne4! 13.Nxe4 dxe4 14.Bxe4? (14.Nd2 is fine for White) 14...Rxe4 15.Qxe4 Nf6 and White seems to be busted: 16.Qc2 Bf5 17.Rd3 Nd5 18.a3 Qb5 19.Rhd1 Bxa3 20.Rxa3 Nb4 21.e4 Nxc2 22.Kxc2 Bxe4+ 23.Kc1 Qc4+ 24.Rc3 Qa4 0-1
  

A computer once beat me at chess but it was no match for me at kick boxing - Emo Philips
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo