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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Slav questions (Read 13258 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #17 - 09/24/05 at 10:42:56
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Semkov mentioned that he has some analysis on the Qc2 line in the Meran.  Maybe he can be encouraged to share some analysis here!
  
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lnn2
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #16 - 09/24/05 at 10:37:41
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6. Qc2 b6 is a decent move which avoids alot of theory with 6... Bd6.  Sakaev/Semkov's Anti-Meran work is terrific, it deals solely with 6. Qc2 and explained away all my doubts and more. If you have trouble with 5. Bg5, consider the Cambridge Springs. Smiley
  
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slates
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #15 - 09/24/05 at 10:16:50
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Yes, that line does look like hard work for Black (the Bishop sac line). Incidentally, with the Semi Slav I was trying to say that the problem I had was with reaching a Meran proper, as I didn't enjoy facing 6.Qc2, or even worse, the 5.Bg5 Botvinnik - I avoided the Botvinnik like the plague, but dealing with whatever White played after my 5...h6 (6.Bxf6 or Bh4) was a real headache for me. So the whole Semi Slav became a bit of a no-go area for me - I harbour hopes that the Slav may be less complicated, and I like looking at the ...g5 line we've talked about in this thread, but I'm still not sure that it's right for me.  I'll keep looking!
  
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lnn2
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #14 - 09/24/05 at 09:59:59
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The abysmal open-slav statistic is largely due to the bishop- sac endgame line (6. Ne5 e6 7. f3 Bb4), where Black has only scored a poor 37%. The ridiculous number of players willing to venture this for Black is surprising. White has all the winning chances, and in the worst case, can always sac back the piece for a few pawns to draw. Aside from this line, the open slav isn't so bad!

I would say its difficult for White to avoid the Semi-Slav and its main lines. If he does anything else other than book, the usual punishment is dxc4 + b5. Smiley
  
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slates
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #13 - 09/24/05 at 09:14:44
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Ouch, 42% in the mainline Slav?  Doesn't sound too inviting.  I like the Meran, actually, but I'm not confident enough in my abilities to be able to handle the positions that arise from it, despite my efforts to play it. And that's if you even get to see a Meran on the board....  but back to the Slav, and those stats are interesting. Good to see the ...a6 Slav hasn't fizzled out - and I accept your comments on the Exchange Slav.  I remember Flear recommending ...a6 for Black in these lines whilst covering this in his book on the ...a6 Slav proper.  So thanks for quoting these stats - personally I have usually been a QGD player (Tartakower) but over recent months have been having lots of fun with the Classical Dutch.  The Slav thing came to my attention again after playing through those games in GK's MGP, and as the Dutch sometimes doesn't feel solid enough (!) I thought I'd test drive something other than my QGD.
  
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #12 - 09/23/05 at 20:17:11
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Quote:
I have Flear's book on the ...a6 Slav, and I want to have a good look at the Exchange lines again before I play too much more Slav!  My interest in the Slav has been reawakened a bit here but I know I struggled with it last time I tried. 


The Exchange Slav is not as boring as its reputation. Don't just look at the position after move 3, things usually get more interesting by move 15 or so.

In Flear's Starting Out book, he says Black scores 42 % in the main open slav (4... dc4),  44% in the a6 slav, and 46% in the Semi-Slav. Make of this what you will! As someone who's played all three for both colours, I should say the semi-slav has been most rewarding for me in terms of intellectual, aesthetic, and competitive satisfaction Smiley
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #11 - 09/23/05 at 16:08:26
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I agree completely about Burgess' legendary dilligence.  In fact, it was that very quality that led me to buy both his book on the Taimanov and on the Slav.  That, and I play both lines.  I have to admit to being slightly disappointed by both books, and it probably has to do with how he organised them.  

Transpositions are rampant in modern chess, and these two openings are prime examples.  Burgess correctly points out the importance of the transpositions, but by focusing so much on these, he's made the book difficult to use.  There are so many cross-references that flipping the pages back and forth as you try to get to the heart of a single line could break the spine of the book!

I bet that Burgess' style would work well as an e-book, but it leaves me wanting some straight-forward analysis in the physical realm of books.  I still like his style and will continue to seriously consider buying any book he writes on a topic of interest to me.  But I hope he's able to solve the problems that these two books have presented his readers.
  
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #10 - 09/23/05 at 12:16:52
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Yes, hard to imagine that Burgess would miss lines out.  He's very diligent judging by the other opening work I have of his, on the Taimanov Sicilian.  Diligent to the point that I got confused by some of the transpositions - he certainly includes a great deal of information.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #9 - 09/23/05 at 11:27:15
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Burgess' book does spend some space on ...Nb6.  I'm still holding out hope that Flear will write a follow-on to The Slav for the Tournament Player and deal with these positions in depth.
  
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #8 - 09/23/05 at 10:57:22
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Thanks Inn2 for the post on 7...Nb6.  I had a little play with this and thought it felt ok but kind of cramped as Black. I remember both NCO and Igor Stohl (in his Masterpieces book) quoting the same game featuring Piket (I forget the other player) as leading to an unclear position or equality.  Thanks for the recommendation re. Burgess and Rogozenko - I don't play the Slav enough to warrant these purchases yet, but maybe it's something for the future.  I have Flear's book on the ...a6 Slav, and I want to have a good look at the Exchange lines again before I play too much more Slav!  My interest in the Slav has been reawakened a bit here but I know I struggled with it last time I tried.  Thanks for the analysis gewgaw, seems to make sense to me.
  
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #7 - 09/23/05 at 07:59:30
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1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4 Bf5 6.Ne5 Nbd7 7.Nxc4 Qc7 8.g3 e5 9.dxe5 Nxe5 10.Bf4 Nfd7 11.Bg2 g5 12.Nxe5 gxf4 13.Nxd7 0-0-0 14.Qd4 Qxd7 15.Qxh8 Qd2+ 16.Kf1 Qxb2 17.Re1 Bb4 18.Qf6 Qc2 19.Ne4 [19.g4 Be6 20.Be4 Qxc3 21.Qxc3 Bxc3 22.Rc1 Bd2 23.Rc2 Bxg4] 19...Bxe4 20.Bh3+ Kc7 21.Qxf4+ Kb6
It seems black is okay.

  

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lnn2
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #6 - 09/23/05 at 07:47:45
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Hi, about 7... Nb6: unfortunately I could find no mention of it in Flear's new Starting Out book (yet another omission!), have amended my post on the book accordingly. 

NIC has surveys for both 7... Nb6 and 11... g5 recently in  latest yearbooks, they are definitely worth checking out.

I would say 7... Nb6 is a decent choice, superior to the shaky 11... g5. It's described as dull, stodgy and drawish by various sources (Burgess, Sadler), but to be honest I would be annoyed to face it as White, even though White has a  theoretical "+=". It is a very solid variation, if Black does nothing (!), its not even entirely clear if White can make progress.

Vescovi-Anand was the most recent high-profile encounter, though must say White was simply out-classed in that game.

If you don't have Burgess or Rogozenko (Chessbase CD), you ought to get them.
  
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #5 - 09/23/05 at 07:24:05
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Thanks to each of you for the input.  I'll do as Smyslov Fan suggests, and continue to work through those other classic games, whilst I will try to work on the line some more myself - I can't remember too well what I played after 17.Re1 Bb4 18.Qf6,  but I know it wasn't Qc2, and probably should have been! At least then maybe I wouldn't have found it so tough. I'm a weak player and didn't spot this move. Still, I also prefer 13...0-0-0  (reminds me of the Meran) to ...Bxd7 aesthetically and to play, but am starting to understand why people (John Simmons) suggest leaving ...g5 to Moro and co.  Incidentally, in Igor Stohl's Instructive Modern Chess Masterpieces he made a comment about how Moro used ...f6 before trying ...g5 but then reverted to ...f6 in the same tournament - there was no accompanying analysis of the ...g5 line, and if memory serves there was a comment to the effect that ...g5 probably wasn't the reason Moro lost the game......anyway, it served to illustrate Stohl's reluctance at that point in time to investigate ...g5 further, perhaps because he doubted the move would stay around long? 
In Eingorn's book (Decision Making at the Chessboard) he has a game with this line where he mentions that 7...Nb6 is more popular nowadays that 7...Qc7.  I think I'll take a closer look at that, too...
  
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John Simmons
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #4 - 09/23/05 at 04:37:19
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Hello,

    The line you are reffering to occurred in the last round of the recent British championship between Ricard Pert and Woodward. Andrew Martin had a few problems showing how black wins after Q*R on the demonstration board. When I looked at the game afterwards with a computer, found the best that black could do was force a perpetual.
         In the game, Pert traded into a endgame with extra pawn, with black having two bishops, for not quite enough compensation.
              My feeling is 11...g5 should be left to Morozevich, black is under pressure in too many lines. In fact find the whole line with 7...Qc7 unapealing for black. White has positional pressure with bg2 on queenside pawns, and black has tactical problems too

Bye John S
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Slav questions
Reply #3 - 09/23/05 at 00:40:11
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Inn2,

I agree completely that 12.Ne3! is the answer, but it's only a partial answer so far.  If you have Kasparov's MGP vol 2, you may want to take a look at it.

(I am unfortunate enough to play both sides of this line, and it's hard to keep up on such an intricately sharp line.)
  
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