Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!? (Read 18081 times)
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10756
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #23 - 03/08/09 at 21:27:21
Post Tools
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #22 - 03/08/09 at 14:56:52
Post Tools
Alias wrote on 01/26/06 at 09:15:34:

Cant make this link work any more  Sad

There was a lot of interesting material here. Actually right now I was looking for some material on the slav.

Anyone know if the content has been moved?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1512
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #21 - 01/26/06 at 09:15:34
Post Tools
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Charles_G
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 26
Location: Miami
Joined: 10/08/05
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #20 - 01/25/06 at 22:01:24
Post Tools
I think this is a super interesting sideline. What is the link to the kindermann analysis?!

Thanks, Charles.
  

feel free to email me at Benko187@msn.com !
Back to top
AIM  
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #19 - 10/17/05 at 11:05:45
Post Tools
Actually Kaufman only wrote, "also good is 6.g3", with no supporting analysis.  I suppose that's reasonably acceptable since his recommendation is 6.c4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10756
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #18 - 10/16/05 at 20:56:11
Post Tools
What does Kaufmann say about 6.g3 Be7 as I mentioned in an earlier post?
For the time being I have come to the conclusion, that 6.c4 is White's most ambitious try - that Oral-Arlandi game is fascinating.
No need to go shopping elsewhere.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #17 - 10/15/05 at 20:14:02
Post Tools
Kaufman gives the game Oral,T. (2546) - Arlandi,E. (2448) 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3 Nf6 4.Nd5 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.c4 (instead of 6.Bb5, he also says 6.g3 is good) 6...Nde7 (6...Nf4 7.h4 is also given as better for White) 7.Nc3 Ng6 8.Nb5.  I imagine those really interested in 3.b3 can look up the game or even buy Kaufman's "The Chess Advantage in Black and White".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #16 - 10/14/05 at 07:42:07
Post Tools
I finally looked at the Gallegos-Timman game from 2002 thanks to Taljechin's link.  The game was quite interesting and White played very well to give Timman a challenge.  I get the feeling that if Timman had wanted, he could have played on without any worries (the game was drawn around move 22 with most of the pieces still on the board).

I don't see it as a ringing endorsement for White's 3.b3 since he blocked it out with e5 fairly early on and then proceeded to trade down most of the other minor pieces.  Rather, it's a testament to Gallegos that he didn't get blown away because of his activity and creativity in developing his Rh1 to the fourth rank.

In other words, if this is an example of White's best play in this variation, White needs to go shopping elsewhere.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #15 - 10/13/05 at 18:59:03
Post Tools
I doubt the games in Smallville`s library really were played by Kasparov. When did you ever see him play the Berlin defence?
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10756
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #14 - 09/26/05 at 21:31:06
Post Tools
I find the gambit recommended by Kindermann 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3 b6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Bb7 6.Nb5!? very interesting. So I don't agree with FS, at the moment 3...Nf6 looks best to me. I will take a look at TJ's suggestions.
But say 1.e4 e6 2.b3 c5 3.Bb2 b6! indeed looks pretty good for Black.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fernando Semprun
Senior Member
****
Offline


Be nice to others. Life
is to be enjoyed!

Posts: 402
Location: Madrid
Joined: 04/29/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #13 - 09/26/05 at 09:49:00
Post Tools
But yes, the 3...b6 looks best from a modern understanding of these set-ups. (and a way to look for the full point!)
  

Fernando Semprun
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fernando Semprun
Senior Member
****
Offline


Be nice to others. Life
is to be enjoyed!

Posts: 402
Location: Madrid
Joined: 04/29/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #12 - 09/26/05 at 09:47:40
Post Tools
I faced this line against much stronger opposition. First time against an American IM (from the American continent, I will look in ChessBase to remember) around 1987 in the Seville open. I equalised easily with 3...Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 and afterwards playing d6 and taking with the Queen. The dark squared bishop was placed in f6, to oppose the Bb2.

Then I played in Matalascañas against Magem, and lost. I played much worse. The funny thing was that de la Villa was telling Magem the set ups the white pieces should have. Magem was higher rated than him, but was asking as a student would to his teacher !
  

Fernando Semprun
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #11 - 09/26/05 at 08:58:20
Post Tools
These days it feels obsolete to post game scores, as most games can be found instantly by googling.

The following site is perhaps even superior to the usual online databases as the games are viewable without need to download & open pgns *and* there's a connected discussion forum to every game, for those so inclined...

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1258079
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #10 - 09/26/05 at 08:46:30
Post Tools
Taljechin,

Do you have the Gallegos-Timman game available for us to peruse?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #9 - 09/26/05 at 04:56:02
Post Tools
That's a good question, MNb.

For one thing, why play g3 as early as move 6? I suppose it must be to wait for Be7 before playing c4, as there are some quick draws after 6.c4 Nde7-g6, following the game Adams-Cramling (which was a fighting draw in 42 moves) but since then the GMs seem to agree to draws before move 20. Hmm wait a minute, Oral-Arlandi in 2002 looks good for white, so maybe 6.g3 is as unnecessary as it looks?! Cheesy

Gallegos-Timman is a different treatment (6.Bb5), that looked nice for white, at least in that game - despite the early draw.

Btw, if black challenges pawn-e5 with f6; as a rule of thumb imo, white should allow the exchange on e5 instead of taking on f6 as in your example line. If ...fxe5 Nxe5 isn't possible then white must've done something wrong...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10756
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #8 - 09/25/05 at 20:50:06
Post Tools
Kindermann recommends after 3..Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 the line 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.g3 Be7 7.c4 Nc7 (Ndb4 8.a3 and the White bishop still protects square d3) 8.Nc3 for white, but is this really good? After 8...o-o 9.Ne4 d5 10.exd6 Bxd6 11.d4 (11.Bg2 e5) cxd4 12.Nxd6 Qxd4 13.Nxd4 e5 14.Nf3 Qf6 Black gets full control of square d4.
The normal move 9.Bg2 also gives Black good play after both d5 10.exd6 Qxd6 and f6 10.exf6 Bxf6.
Isn't White's opening play too slow?
The more general question is: what is White's best way to meet 3...Nf6 ?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #7 - 09/24/05 at 12:16:46
Post Tools
Dennis Monokroussos in his excellent blog “The Chess Mind” (http://chessmind.powerblogs.com/) mentions that Kasparov and Nakamura have played some blitz chess at the playchess.com webstite.  Nakamura has some (all?) of the games in his library on ICC.  His handle is “Smallville”.  I mention this because Kasparov plays as White 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3 in 3 (if I remember correctly) games.  I don't recall ever being told a name for 3.b3 either.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #6 - 09/24/05 at 04:04:00
Post Tools
Quote:
I think 3.b3 is a horse with no name yet. Maybe it should be called Westerinen-Oral Attack, after two important practicioners.


Well, Westerinen doesn't talk more than necessary in my experience... Grin

There seems to be many players who use it regularly, even Kasparov has 4/4 with it from simuls, even Tal and Keres used it occasionally.

Still, considering Westerinen being the first GM addict, maybe The Finnish Variation, would be a good name. Then we'd have a capital (Moscow), a surname (Rossolimo) and a nationality (Finnish) for this repertoire... Smiley

If there are any other suggestions we could have yet another poll! Yey! Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10756
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #5 - 09/23/05 at 15:57:04
Post Tools
I think 3.b3 is a horse with no name yet. Maybe it should be called Westerinen-Oral Attack, after two important practicioners.
3.b3 b6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Bb7 6.Nb5 is a very interesting gambit recommended by Kindermann.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1512
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #4 - 09/23/05 at 09:33:07
Post Tools
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 = Rossolimo
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5 = Moscow
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3 Don't know what this is called.

Rublevsky seems to have switched to 3.c3.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #3 - 09/23/05 at 09:19:02
Post Tools
Quote:
DIdn't Rowson say this line was not so good for White?
There was a NIC survey on 2. Nf3 e6 3. b3 b6 sometime ago. You could try tracking that volume.

I do think the only sideline against 2... e6 with any bite is 3. c4!?. Otherwise, the 5. Bd3 Kan is quite fun for White imho, though not sure what is White's best against the Taimanov!


Hmm, I can't believe that white should be worse after 3.b3. There's just too many really good players using it as white...

Anyway, thanks for the references!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The King
Full Member
***
Offline


Give me convenience or
give me death

Posts: 173
Location: Dublin
Joined: 01/08/05
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #2 - 09/23/05 at 08:52:05
Post Tools
I think you are right Inn2, as Rublevsky plays 3.c4 all the time.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lnn2
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: nc
Joined: 09/22/04
Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
Reply #1 - 09/23/05 at 08:00:15
Post Tools
DIdn't Rowson say this line was not so good for White?
There was a NIC survey on 2. Nf3 e6 3. b3 b6 sometime ago. You could try tracking that volume.

I do think the only sideline against 2... e6 with any bite is 3. c4!?. Otherwise, the 5. Bd3 Kan is quite fun for White imho, though not sure what is White's best against the Taimanov!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!?
09/23/05 at 06:56:35
Post Tools
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3!? - Does this variation have a generally accepted name?

Anyone who knows about possible sources about it?

I know about Kindermann's internet articles and Kaufman's 'Black and White Advantage' book, are there any more recent (i.e. from the last 5-6 years) sources on it?

If one is prepared to play the Rossolimo and 3.b3, I suppose one would get time over to look into the best lines against the Najdorf, Scheveningen and Dragon - which are the most interesting and fun sicilian alternatives to play against anyway. (Ok, there's 2...Nf6 too, but that's not very sicilian anyway...)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo