Normal Topic Chess Material Affordability and Third World Econo (Read 3636 times)
Bondefanger
Junior Member
**
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 63
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: 04/02/04
Re: Chess Material Affordability and Third World E
Reply #7 - 10/06/05 at 03:27:32
Post Tools
Quote:

Similarly for chess & software where their prices are really exurbidant, who can blame the lower income people for infringing copyright laws to get hold of the necessary??(the same with Microsoft & Autodesk)
[cut]
Oh Yes! You can get  an unlicensed copy of the top chess engines like Fritz ,Junior & Shredder for abt RM$12 in Malaysia as opposed to a few hundred for a licensed copy.
Who wouldnt be tempted??


Actually, I have not paid anything for my operating system(linux), for my chess database(scid), or for the chess-engines I use for analysis(mainly crafty), so I think that lower income people who infringe copyright laws CAN be blamed for doing so. 

(Of course if no free or cheap alternatives existed, perhaps they couldn't be blamed.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Chess Material Affordability and Third World E
Reply #6 - 10/05/05 at 23:20:00
Post Tools
Woofwoof, MNb and CastleRock, 

Thank you for reminding me how materialistic I am. I doubt that there will ever be a chess charity in the vein of  the Daughter's of St. Paul.  But perhaps there are other ways we can help each other.   

My chess club (The Colorado Springs Chess Club) would probably be willing to become a sister club to one in Chennai, Singapore, Suriname, or wherever.  We even have a surplus of books!  The problem for us is that the cost of shipping these books to your club would be almost the value of the books.   

I'd love to work out some sort of arrangement with you.  Perhaps we could share some books and you can share some experience.  We might even try a live internet match some day!  Ok, I dream big.  But still, toss it around with your fellow clubbers!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
woofwoof
God Member
*****
Offline


chess is like life

Posts: 929
Location: Singapore
Joined: 07/04/05
Gender: Male
Re: Chess Material Affordability and Third World E
Reply #5 - 10/05/05 at 23:03:06
Post Tools
That is why I really appreciate the efforts of the Daughters Of St Paul. This congregation of catholic nuns manage to get permission to reprint popular religious books & bibles & sell them at very cheap prices. Imagine a book by the original publisher may cost something like SGD$40 but the St Paul Sisters will be able to sell you for something like a quarter of the price. their apostolate came abt with the lower income groups in mind- so their nombers are really big especially in India & Phillipines. "No one should be deprived from receiving God's Word" they tell me

Similarly for chess & software where their prices are really exurbidant, who can blame the lower income people for infringing copyright laws to get hold of the necessary??(the same with Microsoft & Autodesk) If chess players esp the poorer ones are always being deprived of good chess books & software (if they want to be straight), where is the motivation to pursue chess? All in all in the long run chess will just end up the poorer for it. The other main reason I gave up competitive chess was cost (apart from studies).

Would there be a chess version of the Daughters of St Pau?? A grp which caters for lower income chess players? I doubt so. But no harm in hoping I guess. Chess & even small businesses really needs these types of 'apostolates' to remain straight imo. As a just starting out consulting engineer & the enforcement of copyright laws in Singapore the I.T part has really burnt a huge hole in my pockets. With the recession & the construction industry still not yet recovering, its been a long & painful process to recover my I.T costs.

Oh Yes! You can get  an unlicensed copy of the top chess engines like Fritz ,Junior & Shredder for abt RM$12 in Malaysia as opposed to a few hundred for a licensed copy.
Who wouldnt be tempted??
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Chess Material Affordability and Third World E
Reply #4 - 10/05/05 at 21:12:28
Post Tools
There is another good reason for publishers to take over this model: to fight illegal copies. In Suriname it is easy to get Chessbase 8 and Megabase 2002 for almost free. In the Third World people have the patience (well, they have no choice) to wait a couple of months - sometimes weeks - for interesting stuff like this. But I am sure, that most of them are more than willing to pay an affordable price for the features they now miss and to lower the risk of copy faults.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
castlerock
God Member
*****
Offline


Erro Ergo Sum

Posts: 842
Location: Chennai
Joined: 02/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Chess Material Affordability and Third World E
Reply #3 - 10/05/05 at 12:56:29
Post Tools
Today I purchased two more books. Judgement & Planning Algebraic edition and Power Chess by Nigel Davies. Again at around $7 delivered at my residence. Batsford's MO is simple. They collect royalty for 600 books. Supply the jackets and printing is done in India. McGraw Hill does the same thing. Microsoft has channel partners to sell paper licenses.

It's basically additional money and smarter organisations exploit this. DVD's are available in China for 75 cents. If chessbase thinks CB9 is not available for $10 in an emeging chess nation like India, they would be (and they are) naive. I know quite a few IM's and none of them have original softwares!

If Everymann and Gambit refuse to sell books at affordable prices, there will always be photocopy vendors and India will reach its 100 GM's target by 2015. The point is people will be straight if photocopy costs $2 and the book costs $5 but not at $30. 

It's not happening as yet, but I can envisage parallel updates of chesspub being circulated in an organised form soon. 

What I am talking about is an additional market which is not exploited by any of the players except Batsford. A market which is skillfully exploited by McGraw Hill and Microsoft.

I even have a business model ready. If the administrators of chesspub pm me I can give. I once gave it to chessbase only to be carefully filed in Trash folder. Tongue
  

CastleRock
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kevinludwig
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 233
Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 06/13/04
Re: Chess Material Affordability and Third World E
Reply #2 - 10/05/05 at 12:27:52
Post Tools
Just to play devil's advocate...

Chesspublishing is paying GM's & IM's at "western" wages; they pay for the maintenence of their web site at "western" costs; presumably they expect to make profits at "western" margins (who can blame them?). How could they possibly afford to do business if they charged 3/4 of the world subsidized dues?

In fairness, I will admit that all of this would be "extra" money anyway, because they can't expect to gain business from someone who only makes $0.40 an hour (or even $4.00 an hour, less than American minimum wage) at the current pricing.

Maybe if someone could provide an accurate way of determining location, pricing could be altered based on this. I'll propose one method for others to shoot down: Can't a billing address be determined from a credit card or debit card? Presumably no one is going to go to the trouble of setting up a billing address in India to save a buck on a chesspublishing membership (if that is even possible at all). Further, if someone purchases a money order, is it possible to determine where it was physically purchased (not sure on this one)?

Anyway, interesting topic...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Chess Material Affordability and Third World E
Reply #1 - 10/05/05 at 08:47:59
Post Tools
I fully agree. If chesspub really has the ambition to become global, it should follow the recommendations of castlerock.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
castlerock
God Member
*****
Offline


Erro Ergo Sum

Posts: 842
Location: Chennai
Joined: 02/24/05
Gender: Male
Chess Material Affordability and Third World Econo
10/05/05 at 03:27:42
Post Tools
In another thread MNb informed that he can’t afford to join chesspub and he is not alone. We have a cartel of chess friends who on an average buy 5 or 6 original books a year and we exchange them, to make it politically correct.   

Now, I am a conscientious man and I am not happy doing it. But, economic considerations of 75% of the chess playing community are far different from that of the western world.

For example, minimum wages in my country is between 35-45 cents per hour! I am one of the lucky ones earning 12 times more. Yet, even I can’t afford what I want and I live without quite a few books I would love to possess.

Now, who’s problem is this? It has always amazed me that Software Vendors and Book publishers have been so naïve and cry foul on IPR matters. 

McGraw – Hill comes out with what is called “Eastern Economy Edition” and sells text books at say $10 when a western edition costs $80. No student photocopies!

Microsoft sells in India what is known as paper license. I am a proud owner of a paper which says I own Windows and that I’m not eligible for technical supports or upgrades for a price of less than $10.

I repeatedly wrote to many publishers and chessbase and I don’t know why this simple economics doesn’t reach their brains. I wrote even to chesspub before joining. At least, they replied in the negative saying they have no way of verifying the claims! There is something called IP address. But, that’s another matter. I can visualize 500 memberships for chesspub from India if it is economically priced. Now I’m not sure they have even 50 members!

One welcome change is happening in India. Batsford is following McGraw Hill model. I recently purchased Grand Master Chess by Nunn and I play against pieces by Gligoric for less than $8 delivered to me.

Idea of writing this is to open the eyes of powers that be through a public forum. My personal emails have failed to deliver.
  

CastleRock
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo