Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Need Setup Against the Najdorf (Read 36304 times)
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #37 - 05/20/12 at 17:15:51
Post Tools
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/20/12 at 01:39:43:
I recommend 6. Be3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. f3

And my recommedation is (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nb3 Be6) 8.Be2!? (a hybrid between 6.Be3 and 6.Be2) 8...Nbd7 9.Qd3!?... After the standart moves 9...Rc8 10.a4 Be7 11.a5 O-O 12.O-O black's 12...Bc4 is of no help because 13.Qd2 Be6 (13...Bxe2 is no good for black) 14. Rfd1 (or even 14.Rfc1) helps white to put their pieces on their usual squares with a tempo up. While if not 12...Bc4 then white can play Nc3xd5 next and the black bishop on e6 can't go to f5 after Nf6xd5.. Simple and clear!  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #36 - 05/20/12 at 01:39:43
Post Tools
I recommend 6. Be3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. f3 and 6. Be3 e6 7. f3. There is much theory, but if you forget theory, the plan is very simple: to attack. Theory that requires memorisation in this line, unlike many lines of 6. Bg5, will make much sense so you if you forget the theory, you can try to postulate the remainder of the lines that you have forgotten during the game. I used to play 6. Be3 when I played 1. e4, and though I lost many games against the Sicilian, the theory is definitely less than 6. Bg5, and you simply attack the kingside.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
F22
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 306
Joined: 07/16/09
Gender: Male
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #35 - 05/19/12 at 10:41:00
Post Tools
Glenn Snow wrote on 10/13/05 at 11:13:12:
And you have to be comfortable after 6.Be3 e5.  Actually wasn't 6...e5 the main line at one time?  It doesn't seem to nearly as popular right now.  If that's true then what's the reason?  Although that's probably a question for another thread.  


That is certainly news to me, do you mean people are playing 6. ... e6 more often? Or maybe the popularity of 6. Be3 itself has dropped?

At any rate after 6. Be3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. f3 h5 9. Qd2 Nbd7 

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*


White is getting slaughtered (White's score gets really bad if you discount the games with 10. Nd5 Nxd5? 11. exd5 Bf5 which we now know is simply bad for Black). 

As for the Najdorf suggestion I would recommend 6. Be2. After 6. ... e5 you can play a la Sveshnikov: 7. Nb3 Be7 8. Bg5 Be6 9. Bxf6 Bxf6 10. Qd3. Against 6. ... e6 you need to learn the main Scheveningen/Najdorf tabiya: 7. O-O Be7 8. f4 O-O 9. Kh1 Qc7 10. a4 Nc6 11. Be3 Re8 12. Bf3

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*


And it is the type of position where "understanding" plays an important role.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chk
God Member
*****
Offline


a pawn is a pawn

Posts: 1063
Location: Athens
Joined: 10/26/06
Gender: Male
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #34 - 04/27/12 at 09:12:59
Post Tools
I understand the OP - I have a similar problem due to the fact that our Open Sic repertoire is quite similar:

Velimirovic, Yugoslav Attack, some Maroczy Binds, ML Sveshnikov and what about the Najdorf?!? Playing an anti-line is one option (e.g. 5. Bd3 or Qxd4 lines), but let's first think of the issue within ML boundaries:

As a Najdorf player myself I am not convinced at all with tries like 6. h3, g3, a4, f4, Rg1 (the 'freak attack' mentioned already), Qf3 (a rather fresh try). Also the more established 6. Bd3, Be2, Bc4 don't pose me great problems. It's only 6. Be3 and especially 6. Bg5 that I consider critical.

On the other hand, consistency with the OP's chosen repertoire is very, very important here, e.g. 6. g3 Nc6 or 6. g3 g6 and you are out of your repertoire.

So I think the 2 most consistent choices available are:
a) 6. Bc4 e6 => I am not satisfied with it as White (esp. vs. 7. Bb3 Nbd7), nevertheless it is the most consistent and you only have to face 6. ... e6 setups. Play is very tactical which is a minus considering what the OP requested (but Velimirovic is very tactical also!?!?!).
b) 6. Be3 e6 or unfortunately 6. Be3 e5 => so you face 2 setups here (a minor concern is to learn sth vs. 6. ... Ng4 7. Bc1 Nf6 8. f3 Qb6). Though it is the ML, it is more about concepts in comparison to the 6. Bc4 lines (see also TN's comment above). It is also more consistent with the Velimirovic & Yugoslav due to the possibility to go O-O-O (which is difficult with 6. Bc4).

If you decide between one of the above, then you can also consider what to play vs. Schevy setups, e.g.:
a) 6. Bc4 e6 7. Bb3 Be7?! 8. g4 is a nice option and is even more obvious if you also use the Keres Attack vs. the Scheveningen (btw if you do play the Keres, you should seriously consider 6. h3 vs. the Najdorf - only problem imo is the Dragon reply).
b) 6. Be3 can also be applied vs. the Scheveningen (if you don't plan to play the Keres) and is also good vs. the Taimanov.

my 2c  Cool
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #33 - 04/24/12 at 17:12:38
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 04/24/12 at 16:25:43:
So the bottom line is not: which 6th move is best after 5...a6, but which one allows you to outplay your opponent. As Kasparov has taught us all that 5...a6 eqaualizes I completely agree with you.


Didn't you hear that Rajilch refuted the Najdorf with 6.Bg5?

On a serious note, I'd recommend the English Attack if you aren't averse to learning some cutting-edge lines. I find that the theory is not so difficult to remember because the themes and ideas are pretty similar in most lines. Also there are very reasonable ways to reduce your workload a bit within 6.Be3, such as 6...e5 7.Nf3 or 6...e6 7.Be2.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10764
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #32 - 04/24/12 at 16:25:43
Post Tools
So the bottom line is not: which 6th move is best after 5...a6, but which one allows you to outplay your opponent. As Kasparov has taught us all that 5...a6 eqaualizes I completely agree with you.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2533
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #31 - 04/24/12 at 16:19:54
Post Tools
tp2205 wrote on 04/24/12 at 15:55:55:
ErictheRed wrote on 04/24/12 at 14:46:44:
No-one's mentioned 6.g3, and while it's not exactly critical, White has good chances to outplay his opponent from a position he understands better.  I've had good results with g3 against the Najdorf and then just playing a la Karpov in the 70s (though I'm mostly a 1.d4 player).


I am sure that no matter what variation you chose "playing a la Karpov in the 70s" would give you good results. I just have not figured out how to do the "playing a la Karpov".


True, easier said than done!  But the point is that below IM level, you can usually just pick some model players and games, do some analysis, specialize in the particular positions/plans, and have good results.  You don't necessarily need the latest theory (of course that's fine too if you like that sort of thing).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tp2205
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 218
Joined: 09/11/11
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #30 - 04/24/12 at 15:55:55
Post Tools
ErictheRed wrote on 04/24/12 at 14:46:44:
No-one's mentioned 6.g3, and while it's not exactly critical, White has good chances to outplay his opponent from a position he understands better.  I've had good results with g3 against the Najdorf and then just playing a la Karpov in the 70s (though I'm mostly a 1.d4 player).


I am sure that no matter what variation you chose "playing a la Karpov in the 70s" would give you good results. I just have not figured out how to do the "playing a la Karpov".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2533
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #29 - 04/24/12 at 14:46:44
Post Tools
No-one's mentioned 6.g3, and while it's not exactly critical, White has good chances to outplay his opponent from a position he understands better.  I've had good results with g3 against the Najdorf and then just playing a la Karpov in the 70s (though I'm mostly a 1.d4 player).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Claus Jensen
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love Chess!

Posts: 72
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 08/15/11
Gender: Male
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #28 - 04/24/12 at 07:31:08
Post Tools
The game that secured me 2nd spot in 2010 Danish Ch's on ICCF.
Compare with the Carlsen game in my previous post - lol

  

Claus Jensen
http://www.clausjensen.com
150+ annotated chess videos
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Claus Jensen
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love Chess!

Posts: 72
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 08/15/11
Gender: Male
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #27 - 04/24/12 at 07:26:30
Post Tools
Very nice blitz game where Carlsen tries 6.h3 against the Najdorf

  

Claus Jensen
http://www.clausjensen.com
150+ annotated chess videos
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Uberdecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 640
Joined: 03/21/06
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #26 - 05/13/06 at 19:31:09
Post Tools
Dear WoofWoof,

Good to see some boldness! You are quite right about Black not having to weaken himself so early with ...b5.  But when I wrote those old notes, I was apparently under the impression that 6. ...e5 was inacurrate due to 7. Ktde2 Be6 ; 8. Bg5 Ktbd7 ; 9. Ktd5 (this suggestion you missed in my initial post).
But now that I look at it again, Black's position looks fine to me. Hard to say what I had in mind. 
Nevertheless, I still prefer the more subtle 6. ...Qc7 ; 7. 0-0 e5, ruling out any early attempts by White to gain control over -d5. 

                                                          Regards,
                                                                Hubert
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
woofwoof
God Member
*****
Offline


chess is like life

Posts: 929
Location: Singapore
Joined: 07/04/05
Gender: Male
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #25 - 05/13/06 at 14:23:49
Post Tools
Quote:
bob000 wrote on 10/08/05 at 01:22:48:
Bd3 is wonderful against the Najdorf but I'm not sure of its effectiveness in a Schevenigen/Dragon transpoition.


Actually if Black is intent on playing the thematic Najdorf ...e5 (cf. Nunn  "Complete Najdorf Modern Lines" p.332; 6. …e5), , then 6. ...Qc7 is a novelty worth looking into. (I occasionaly reach this position through 2. ...Qc7).
The point is that after 7. 0-0 e5 ; 8. Ktde2 (8. Ktb3 b5) Be6, Black may play for …d5 instead of the weakening …b5. e.g. 9. Bg5 Ktbd7 ; 10. f4 Be7 ; 11. f5 Bc4 and the position resembles those of 6. Be2 with the Knight misplaced on -e2 and the typical g4 jabs unavailable (cf. Nunn p. 264 note 1a to B’s 8th ; also p.259 note 2c to B’s 7th, p.275 line B1 and p. 299 line C) or of 6. f4 Qc7 ; 7. Bd3 e5 ; 8. Ktf3 (p.72) where 8. ...Be6?!  would be met by 9. Qe2! followed by f5 or even 9. f5!? Bc4 ; 10. Bxc4 Qxc4 ; 11. Ktd2, with the intention of Ktf1- e3 (cf. p.67, line A1 note to B’s 8th). 
Black’s move-order is important in inducing 0-0 since 6. …e5 ; 7. Ktde2 Qc7 ; 8. Bg5 Ktbd7 prevents …Be6 and 7. …Be6 ; 8. Bg5 Ktbd7 allows 9. Ktd5! .
White’s best at this point may be 7. f4, transposing to 6. f4 Qc7 ; 7. Bd3, which is comfortable for Black, because White has not contained his counterplay with a4. Instead 7. Bg5 Ktbd7 ; 8. f4 e6, is a minor line of the 6. Bg5 Najdorf.

                                                     Regards,
                                                           Hubert


Ok Hubert, Ive decided to take up your 'challenge' & be brave abt posting something ive not 'learnt'.

6.Bd3 e5 7.Ktde2 Be6(why play 7...Qc7 here  Huh) 8.Bg5 Ktbd7 9.f4 (9.Be3 Qc7 )Qc7

8.f4 Qc7 9.Be3 Be7

8.0-0 Be7 (8...Qc7 also possible)

I dunno. doesnt seem that bad for black here. (Seems to hv some resemblance to the 6.Be2 typical black posns). Black doesnt hv to play b5 so early. Just like in the 6.Be2 , black must boulster up the d5 sq 1st before pursuing any active q-side play. Of course I stand corrected.
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uberdecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 640
Joined: 03/21/06
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #24 - 04/02/06 at 23:49:17
Post Tools
I was answering a post which discussed the merits of 6. Bd3 against the Najdorf. 
I suppose I should have made that clearer and now that I look at my post, I can't say that it's very inviting, what with all the references to Nunn's book. But I just copied and pasted some notes I'd made long ago. If you have the patience to delve into it, I'm sure you will understand it all now.

                                                                 Regards,
                                                                        UD
 
P.S.The fact that I posted this right behind discussions of 5. Bd3 was pure coïncidence.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Need Setup Against the Najdorf
Reply #23 - 04/02/06 at 21:49:48
Post Tools
GM Kosten, 

Superficially, 5.Bd3 looks like the sort of move that only a novice would play.  Of course, that makes Mark Hebden's recommendation so much more interesting.  After 2...d6, Bd3 may indeed be playable, but I don't see how White continues in order to achieve an advantage.  What sort of set-up is White looking for that justifies placing his Bishop behind the e4 pawn?   

The Maroczy bind set-up mentioned by one player doesn't appeal to me because I am pretty sure the B doesn't belong on d3 there.  An early f4 by White looks like it's more likely to explode in White's face than be a major problem for Black.  How did your game with Hebden continue?

Uberdecker, 

I'm sorry, but I don't know what position you refer to.  You mention one line, 6.f4 Qc7 7.Bd3.  But if the Bishop has already been played to d3...

I suppose you're discussing some line with 5.Nc3, but even then, there's a missing move.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo