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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: I am a typical Open games player (Read 22066 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #30 - 10/21/05 at 23:56:53
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Photophore,

Without responding directly to your question I'd like to point out a rather curious suggestion by Bent Larsen:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.ed5 ed5 5.Qf3!?

In effect, this is an exchange French rather than a Winawer, but Larsen showed some nice tactics to justify it.  It's not considered very dangerous today but I bet it would score well in blitz or against a player who only knows a few lines of the French well.

(BTW, playing an early e5 for White relieves the pressure on e4 caused by Bb4.  I'm surprised that it seems to be the only move played at high levels, but it clearly has good strategic motives behind it.)
  
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photophore
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #29 - 10/21/05 at 15:57:15
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On 3 Nc3 Bb4 , today everybody plays automaticly 4 e5
In past time , many people played 4 Bd3 or 4 exd5
Is it necessarily worse ?
Examples that I could find seam to show that it gives White rather an easier play , with more opportunity for piece play ,so more similar to Open Games
Are there strategic arguments for 4 e5 ?
  
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #28 - 10/21/05 at 11:02:06
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"I dont see any way around 3 Nc3 if you want the game to get open and agressive."
Not a single bad word on 3.Nc3, but White has another option: 2.b3 - invented by Réti and also played by Spielmann, the two most dangerous gambiteers of their time.
  

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #27 - 10/21/05 at 00:58:13
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Quote:
Yep is a very exciting game. Timman analyses it in one of his earliest books.

But back to topic. I dont see any way around 3 Nc3 if you want the game to get open and agressive. 3Nd2 just doesnt cut it enough for that, though it is imo almost equally as good as 3Nc3. 3 e5 closes the position up. The exchange and KIA are just too passive.


Yep that practically sums things up objectively speaking.
  

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #26 - 10/21/05 at 00:22:28
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Yep is a very exciting game. Timman analyses it in one of his earliest books.

But back to topic. I dont see any way around 3 Nc3 if you want the game to get open and agressive. 3Nd2 just doesnt cut it enough for that, though it is imo almost equally as good as 3Nc3. 3 e5 closes the position up. The exchange and KIA are just too passive.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #25 - 10/20/05 at 23:32:04
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Anyway that Fischer-Larsen game was a good exciting game.  Definitely among the best of the century imo.

It was particularly interesting that Fischer looked alomost as if he was losing, but manged to turn the tables in just a few moves & win later w/o Larsen making any really grave mistake.

Lesson learnt -looks can be deceiving. Just because a position looks bad doesnt mean its a gone case.
  

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #24 - 10/20/05 at 23:25:04
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I am not even sure he played it 7 times, but his record against the Winawer in blitz and simuls is a bit worse in any case. Especially in simuls he has a lot of draws and a couple of losses.

BtW Larsen played the Winawer, because Fischer had switched from 4 e5 to 4 a3 with mixed success, so he would be unsure of a good white system. Still the opening was not to blame for Larsen's loss.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #23 - 10/20/05 at 21:29:18
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lost,

If what you say on the last portion of your post is true, then it was bad match strategy by Larsen who played it against Bobby with the intention to unsettle him somewhat in that candidates match of 1971.


woofwoof -

You are absolutely right about that.  Larsen never tried it again.  And then in the Petrosian match, old Tigran played the French twice, but didn't risk the Winawer.  He played 3...Nf6 (draw) and the junky 3...Nc6 (loss).   

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #22 - 10/20/05 at 20:22:55
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lost,

If what you say on the last portion of your post is true, then it was bad match strategy by Larsen who played it against Bobby with the intention to unsettle him somewhat in that candidates match of 1971.

  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #21 - 10/20/05 at 19:50:02
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But i'll have to salute Fischer here. He had many unhappy experiences against the winawer, but still persisted with 3.Nc3 . He would rather play against the Winawer  than play any other 'less good' 3rd move.

This is often said, but it's greatly exaggerated.  Starting in 1963, Fischer played against the Winawer 7 times, winning 5, losing one.  Among the players he beat were Wolfgang (Mr. French ) Uhlmann and Bent Larsen.  Not too shabby a record.  Yet, people keep on saying poor Bobby had such a hard time against the Winawer.  Think about it:  if that was true, then why did so many players avoid playing it against him?  In the 10 years from 1963 through 1972, he only saw it 7 times and scored 5.5 against it.   

- Lost Highway
  
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #20 - 10/20/05 at 17:29:01
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The world is split into two groups of people....

Wink
  
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #19 - 10/18/05 at 21:00:50
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Quote:

Just take a look at some of the players who have defended the White side of 3.Nc3: Capablanca; Alekhin; Smyslov; Tal; Bronstein; Fischer; Kasparov; and many present-day super-GMs.  If it's good enough for them....


The names mentioned above all consist of 2 categories of players - aggressors & purists;  3. Nc3 isnt only the best move here (makes purists happy) but also the most aggressive move here ie exerts most pressure on the position than any other 3rd move & has potential to lead to sharper lines of play. (makes aggressors happy). so of course its good enough for them.

But i'll have to salute Fischer here. He had many unhappy experiences against the winawer, but still persisted with 3.Nc3 . He would rather play against the Winawer  than play any other 'less good' 3rd move.
  

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #18 - 10/18/05 at 06:42:53
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I they don't then I wouldn't know what will...
  
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #17 - 10/15/05 at 20:46:10
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I all about the classical french! Bg5 and white can smile. The games can get really agressive. I play an Alekhine-Chatard when ever i can and love the postions. I am thinking they would fit an open game player.
  
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #16 - 10/15/05 at 20:24:48
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@Taljechin, 

Thanks for the great games, there were several interesting ones listed on that site, not just the French game you mentioned.

@Dom and Photophore, inter alia:

Someone who plays the White side of the Najdorf and chooses Bg5 shouldn't be afraid of learning a little theory in the French.  The theory of the French Opening changes very slowly compared to the Najdorf, so extra study now will pay off for years.   

There are many ways for White to handle the Winawer, so I won't list them all.  Among the obscure lines that an aggressive player might like are: 4:a3, 4.Bd2 (which isn't highly recommended but has scored well) and of course 4.Qg4

The main line with 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bc3 6.bc3 will require that you learn to play against both Ne7 and Qc7.  If you follow the threads here, you will learn more about both lines than you will ever need!

Your concern about Black playing the Rubinstein or Burn is well-founded; they both promise hard fights.  But you should not be afraid of either one.   

Just as with Caro-Kann players, the defenders of the Burn and Rubinstein fall neatly into two categories:  weakies who play the line because of its drawish reputation (no worries there) and strong players who play the opening to win!   

What more can you ask of an opening for White than to have a good chance to win (or lose) in every major variation?   

There are no easy draws for Black in the French, except perhaps in some Exchange lines and some French Tarrasches with ...c5.  The White side often cashes in with great sacrifices such as the classic Trojan Bishop (Bxh7+) sac and many others.   

Just take a look at some of the players who have defended the White side of 3.Nc3: Capablanca; Alekhin; Smyslov; Tal; Bronstein; Fischer; Kasparov; and many present-day super-GMs.  If it's good enough for them....
  
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