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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Books about Anti-King's Indians (Read 7454 times)
castlerock
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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #19 - 10/21/05 at 09:05:19
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1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.c4?! c5! and if 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 Qb6! - already =+


I'm not so sure alumbrado. 6.Qd2, 7.Nc3 and 8.f3, I'm in home turf. Wink
  

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alumbrado
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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #18 - 10/21/05 at 04:23:49
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1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.c4?! c5! and if 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 Qb6! - already =+
  

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TopNotch
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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #17 - 10/20/05 at 19:53:16
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GM Eric Prie suggests that 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 3.Nd2 is quite promising for White. Many Tromp specialists seem to do well with this approach.

If u like the Nimzo/Queen's Indian complexes then 2..e6 is the move for you. KID players will need something else to avoid being move ordered, for instance 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 and now 3.c4 This is not common here, but quite playable, and I doubt a KID player will relish the Black side.

Conclusion: The Tromp is a tricky and flexible Opening, and prospective Blacks need to consider their counters to it very carefully.

Toppy Grin

 
  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #16 - 10/20/05 at 02:26:26
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BladezII: Complexity? Yes. Now, we're getting somewhere. 2...c5 is indeed more often leading to more complex positions than 2...e6. I'm sorry for being so slow.

(In my defence, I've never played 1...Nf6 as a respons to 1.d4 in any serious game. For a long time it was 1...d5 and now it is 1...f5. I'm still very interested in 1...Nf6 though.)
  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #15 - 10/20/05 at 02:07:28
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Well, I also play the Benoni and the French with Black, so 2...e6 fits right in with what I'd normally do against the Tromp.

Since I play the Benoni with 1...Nf6 already, I wasn't too interested in what those authors had to say about the immediate deviations from Benoni/KID lines with 2.Bg5, 2.Nc3 (which would let me transpose into a French with 2...e6, if I wanted), etc, as I have faced those already. I was more interested in what they had to say about the Anti-King's Indians which still have a real King's Indian flavor about them.
  

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BladezII
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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #14 - 10/20/05 at 01:56:42
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"I would assume, it is due to the pawn structure. In KID and Benoni it is dark square play. 2…e6 flags light center play more in line with QGD or French. If there is any other reason I would like to know." -- right on the money with this one, and there is more.

I will add that the complexity of play is  not present in ...e6, in those French type positions where Black hopes that White's lead in development does not mean much because of  the closed center.

More complex and more potential for unbalance yet with a real stance from Black on the center and maybe in any side of the board is 2.... c5.  This is exactly what GM Davies rercommends for KID and benoni players. There is opportunity almost at every turn for  Black to make  an aggressive and difficult struggle on the Q side AND the kingside and the center.

This is the kind of game KID players and Benoni players want and are ready to play.

On a personal note, I resorted to training and learning 1... d5 in order to play against known Tromp players (eventually I met the Tarrasch on a deep and personal level and the rest is history).  My results vs the tromp were terrible-- 2 draws and the rest losses.

It was not until I met 2... c5 vs the Tromp that 1...  Nf6 came back to me when playing vs known Tromp players.  I mean, my type of game was achievable to me.  Yeah, 1...  Nf6 moved back in with me (figure of speech) and we have been making this work.  Then a while later, GM Davies' book on the Tromp came out, giving me more insight.  My first game with that weapon (2... c5) vs 2200+ was a draw by perpetual after I had achieved a very promising position and then let it go little by little till drawn.

I apologize to some of you who might not like the extra detail, but I gave the info and the background from a personal perspective.
  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #13 - 10/20/05 at 01:36:19
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I would assume, it is due to the pawn structure. In KID and Benoni it is dark square play. 2…e6 flags light center play more in line with QGD or French.


Well, that could be a reason but it's not a very good one. 2.Bg5 is an independent opening. I don't see any major move order trick to get into any opening black could fear. 2...e6 3.Nf3 is a Torre which is considered slightly more promising than Torre with g6.

Those who play the KID or Benoni, are not forced to push the g-pawn in every possible opening. In my experience, many KID and Benoni players choose to play the french against 1.e4 rather than Pirc, Modern or any dragon.

It would be interesting to hear what lines are more suitable for KID and Benoni players. What's recommended by Gallagher? Isn't it 2...Ne4 3.Bf4 c5?
  

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castlerock
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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #12 - 10/20/05 at 01:17:40
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Why is that not suitable for KID and Benoni players?


I would assume, it is due to the pawn structure. In KID and Benoni it is dark square play. 2…e6 flags light center play more in line with QGD or French. If there is any other reason I would like to know. Grin
  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #11 - 10/19/05 at 23:33:52
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Why is that not suitable for KID and Benoni players?
  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #10 - 10/19/05 at 16:49:17
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John Cox's Trompovsky's treatment is not suitable for KID or Benoni players. He recommends 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 I believe.

Toppy Grin  
« Last Edit: 10/20/05 at 19:41:26 by TopNotch »  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #9 - 10/19/05 at 02:09:07
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ubiyca: This one might be of interest: http://www.everymanbooks.com/display.php?id=266
  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #8 - 10/18/05 at 17:41:01
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True about the Tromp.  Well, for the Tromp, the Gallagher book is outdated.  So much in my opinion that I would not even touch it.  I would rather spend more money on the Trompowsky book by Nigel Davies.  I did buy that book.  He writes for Black as much as White. (I am very much for the 2... c5 line) and the material in chesspublishing.com.

For the Blackmar Diemer Gambit, the Gallagher book is again unreliable for me.   I have yet to find a book that deals with the BDG with full competency and the seriousness this opening deserves and written for Black !  So, for BDG, much of the material I get from Chesspublishing.com , and for this GM Prie does a good job.  He is also an active participant of the Message board.  For the Barry Attack, the same thing, chesspublishing.com

  

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ubiyca
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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #7 - 10/18/05 at 16:41:58
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"full of lines I will probably rarely see". Depends  on your level. In club games you might never get to see anything but 'off-beat-lines'...

True, but I forgot to mention that I usually play against masters and above, and from what I've seen at least at tournaments, most people seem to pick one of the lines covered by Gallagher in "Play the King's Indian."

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I still say get em both, they compliment each other.

For instance Gallagher's book covers the BDG, Trompovsky and Barry Attack very well, while Watson's does not consider the Trompovsky at all, The Barry very superficially and the BDG is only mentioned in passing.

No way around it, you gotta fork out some more bucks times two.

Toppy


Hmm, I might end up going this route. I managed to find both books used, so I could essentially get two used for the price on one new ...
  

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TopNotch
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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #6 - 10/18/05 at 15:19:17
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I still say get em both, they compliment each other. Grin

For instance Gallagher's book covers the BDG, Trompovsky and Barry Attack very well, while Watson's does not consider the Trompovsky at all, The Barry very superficially and the BDG is only mentioned in passing.

No way around it, you gotta fork out some more bucks times two.

Toppy Grin
  

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Re: Books about Anti-King's Indians
Reply #5 - 10/18/05 at 06:54:59
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"full of lines I will probably rarely see". Depends  on your level. In club games you might never get to see anything but 'off-beat-lines'...
  
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