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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How do you pronounce Winawer? (Read 33344 times)
MNb
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #22 - 11/14/05 at 22:10:16
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Doesn't this mainly prove, that Americans don't bother to look further than the borders of their nation?

In The Netherlands and in Germany Alekhine's name is ofted spelled as Aljechin, more or less pronounced as your ahl yekh een.

If we would dutchize English and American names in a similar way, it would have very funny results.  Shocked
An example is Meeh aah meeh (a city in Florida).
  

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bravehoptoad
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #21 - 11/14/05 at 21:55:26
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Yes, but it is common to treat names differently and to try to pronounce them correctly.


Not so sure about that.  Take American cities.  Most people anglizise "Los Angeles" when they pronounce it.  (Yes, not Los Angelos, sorry Smyslov Fan).  What about our next largest city?  Most people don't even KNOW how to pronounce "Chicago", since it's Commanche and means "Worm Eaters."  Most people don't pronounce "Saint Louis" or "Baton Rouge" in a French accent.

Are you just talking about people's names?  Again, we don't say "Sylvester Stalon-ee", the way any good Italian would.  I've never met an English speaker who actually pronounces Alekine's name "ahl-YEKH-een".  No one would understand you if you did. 

And does anyone outside Spain say "Ruy Lopeth" in proper Castillian Spanish? 

If Winawer were still alive and giving press conferences, I'd see trying to pronounce his name correctly.  But Simon Winawer's been dead for more than 100 years.  I think it's safe for English speakers to anglicize his name.

P.S.  Welsh makes even more use of semi-vowell "w"s than English.  Good scrabble word:  cwm.
  
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #20 - 11/06/05 at 11:09:59
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Taljechin,

Thanks!  I knew the bit about wolf, just as Bjorn is Bear.  How Medved became the Russian for Bear, I don't know.

I don't have satellite, but we do have a university channel here, Scola.  It carries news in various languages.  I had heard his name pronounced in Polish on American TV where they showed him being introduced to a crowd before cutting to the translator's voice.  But I've heard it since.  You may remember that Polish crowds, especially in that memorable August of 1989, chanting his name in the dockyards of Gdansk (once known as Danzig).
  
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TalJechin
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #19 - 11/06/05 at 03:50:48
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As far as Lech Walesa's name goes (that's the spelling I learned at least)...

This was how I heard the name pronounced in Polish and American news broadcasts at the time: 

Lech ("ch" as in loch or bach) Val'essa (the "l" was palatalized, making it soft, almost like a Spanish "ll").


I've never seen any Polish broadcast ever - you got a satellite dish? But for pronuncing names *correctly*, I'd never rely on any english speaking channel...

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By the way, there are some simple words I never could pronounce, such as "Ulf".


English doesn't have that exact vowel sound, the closest you'd get would probably be [o:lf] (i.e. o as in goo, not bow). Btw, 'ulf' is one of the old euphemism for 'varg' so now you know where english got 'wolf' from... Wink
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #18 - 11/06/05 at 03:19:16
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(BTW Bravehop: as a Californian, you may want to know that the largest city in your state isn't "Los Angelos" but Los Angeles. Lips Sealed)
  
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #17 - 11/06/05 at 03:16:33
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Ooops Embarrassed

My reference to the Russian was not meant in any way to infer that was the correct way to pronounce a Polish name.  I was just showing how it's transliterated and by doing so, possibly eliminating some plausible pronunciations (such as Win-OW'r) since the Russian alphabet is very phonetic.

As far as Lech Walesa's name goes (that's the spelling I learned at least)...

This was how I heard the name pronounced in Polish and American news broadcasts at the time:

Lech ("ch" as in loch or bach) Val'essa (the "l" was palatalized, making it soft, almost like a Spanish "ll").

By the way, there are some simple words I never could pronounce, such as "Ulf".  Embarrassed

Another sidebar: 

I initially ignored this thread, thinking it was a relative waste of time.  But on reflection, perhaps there is little that is more important than learning how to pronounce a person's name!

  
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TalJechin
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #16 - 11/06/05 at 01:16:40
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It's not  impossible that English is the only language where w is a half-vowel, (btw, in swedish v & w are both pronunced as v).

But perhaps Polish does have the english w too, as I seem to remember that Lech Walensa (famous in the 1970-80s as a Polish union leader) was pronunced with someting similar to an english w. As I remember it, it even sounded 'doubled' i.e. something like [wawenza] ??? And even if they do have the w, it's not certain they always pronunce it as an english w...

I believe we have a Polish member here, so sooner or later he'll clear it up for us! Cheesy
  
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MNb
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #15 - 11/05/05 at 16:03:09
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Light correction: Russian prononciation does not make a distinction between v and w. It is somewhere between. That is why both spellings are seen.
But it is true, that Polish knows the w. But I do not know, if it is the English w or the Dutch/German w.
So Vinaver (the guy was Polish) does not make any sense to me.
  

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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #14 - 11/05/05 at 11:58:11
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The Russian transliteration (which has no "w" sound, but is slavic like Polish) is Vinaver.  This makes sense to me. 

However, I seem to remember that in Polish, "W" is pronounced as a "W" at the beginning of a word, such as Warsaw.  But that just makes me more confused. Lips Sealed
  
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #13 - 11/05/05 at 06:51:40
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I've heard Win-Hour as in Win- Au (oww - as in being hurt)- Were, said quickly.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #12 - 11/01/05 at 06:03:29
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['vinawe:]
  
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #11 - 11/01/05 at 05:40:21
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Yes, isn`t it?  Woowoof`s attempt is probably the closest so far.
  

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MNb
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #10 - 10/31/05 at 10:27:35
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Yes, but it is common to treat names differently and to try to pronounce them correctly.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #9 - 10/31/05 at 10:16:17
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If English speakers pronounced all our imported words in the fashion native to the word, then English would become almost unprounceable.  Consider the shift from French to English to Polish to Spanish that would be required by the following sentence:  "As insurance I prepared to play the Winawer for the tournament in Los Angelos."  You mouth would be exhausted by the time you finished the sentence, and no one would understand what you'd just said.
  
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MNb
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Re: How do you pronounce Winawer?
Reply #8 - 10/29/05 at 15:19:46
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But I do not think it a good idea to pronounce a Polish name in English fashion.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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