Re 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Nf6 4.cd5 ed5 5.d4 - I suggest that (pawn-structure-wise) it might be helpful to think of this as a Caro Kann Exchange variation with colours reversed and an extra tempo for White. 

In the Caro Exchange, a kingside fianchetto for Black is an accepted main-line and a study of games with this line between strong players should pay dividends. Having said that, although this is quite solid and definitely playable, as a white opening it lacks bite; Black has no weakness (as long as he plays ...c6 rather than ...c5), no bad pieces and no development problems.

Alumbrado wrote:
Quote:


I realise that what I'm about to write will mostly be transpositions, but please bear with me:


I was trying to make the following two lines transpose into each other:

1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Nf6, 

and 

1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.g3 d5 5.d4 e6 (given on page 146-152( six pages!) of volume 2.  This would have helped to answer Sterling Kolde's initial question.

In volume 2, chapter 17 (pp.153-162) , Khalifman discusses 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.g3 e6 5.Bg2 d5 6.cd5 Nd5 (or 6...ed5, which is addressed in book 4 under the Tarrasch) 

In the intro to book two, he points out that if Black plays 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5, play usually transposes to the Tarrasch with White playing g3 (which is covered in book 4).

Of course, Black doesn't have to play ...c5 and thus transpose into the lines studied by Khalifman.

But if that is the case, what are the main options for Black that make White's play so bad?

Simply put, after 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.d4 c5 (which combines Sterling Kolde's questions on 1.c4 c5 and 1.c4 Nf6), do you suggest something other than cxd5 with the idea of a main-line QGD Tarrasch as Khalifman does, or something else?

And perhaps most critically, If White plays the line: 

1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Nf6, 4.cd5 ed5 (4...Nd5 is also possible but doesn't give Black an advantage) 5.d4

Black does indeed have a wide variety of options.  Which one(s) prove that White's move was actually bad?

It seems to me that most, if not all lines either transpose to known, playable positions or waste a tempo.  My preference as Black is 5...c6, but White hasn't lost the initiative yet in this line.  Black is just solid.

Quote:


???

That is a non sequitur the likes of which one does not expect to see from a deity ...

This suggests, that the Tarrasch Defence is an inferior opening, as after 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg2 Black has better than c7-c5.

I have got the whole OWAK series and I can confidently state that Khalifman most definitely does not suggest 4.cxd5 here.  There are no Catalans or neo-Catalans in sight - only main-line QGD with Bg5 (not the Exchange Variation, and certainly not with g3!).

I got the idea of 4.cd5 from Khalifman's series on Kramnik's opening repertoire for White.  Apparently, no matter how bad it is, Kramnik and others have played this position via transpositions.

However I admit that I've never played this line, and claim no expertise in it except that Khalifman and Kramnik's variations make sense to me.

Hello,

The 50.0 idea is interesting, but it is also probably quite significant that no 2600+ has played it, all preffering to regain pawn with Qa4+. In one of the two 2500+ games I could find Nigel Davies lost after

1. c4 e6   
2. g3 Nf6   
3. Bg2 d5   
4. Nf3 dxc4   
5. O-O  Nbd7 
6. Na3 Bxa3   
7. bxa3 O-O   
8. Qc2 c5
9 Q*c4 b6
although probably about equal at this point. Of course analysising by grade isn't real analysis. 
              It could be though, that this is another of those lines where delaying d4 does not help white much. In the catalan proper sacing the c-pawn is the most critical lines.

Bye John S