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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) A critical test to Black's idea (Read 7133 times)
OstapBender
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #14 - 05/19/06 at 21:23:02
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/26/06 at 16:23:52:
After a hard research Wink...

It seems that the only critical line now is 10.h4 Rc8 11.h5 Ne5 12.O-O-O Qa5 13.Be2 b5 14.Nb3 (to my opinion 14.Kb1 is more accurate when i think black can survive only by 14..Rxc3 when white can play the amazing TN 15.hxg6!! forcing the non-exchange of Quenns! Check it out...) 14..Qc7 15.Kb1! when black's best seems 15..Nc4 16.Bxc4 bxc4 17.Nd4 Qb7! (Not Rb8, there is a small detail...) 18.Qh2 Rb8 19.Bc1 (the idea h6 Bh8 g5 Nh5 Nd5 get's  always the response Be6!!) when none mentions a possible improvemt over Lalic's 19..h6 that might be my idea of 19..a5 playing against the b3 plan. Black always has the defensive resourse of ..Rf7. 
 Any ideas please?


I don't follow.  What is White's 12th move here?  He can't castle queenside twice! Wink

I assume you mean 10.g4 Rc8 11.h4 Ne5 12.h5 etc.
« Last Edit: 05/19/06 at 22:24:29 by OstapBender »  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #13 - 05/19/06 at 13:06:48
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A new idea for Black to save the 9.000 Bd7 ?! idea ?
Does anyone tried to play or analyse :
1.e4 ç5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 çxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nç3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nç6 8.Qd2 0-0 9.000 Bd7 10.g4 Ne5 (The idea is to avoid the move Rç8) for exemple 11.h4 b5 12.h5 b4 13.Nd5 NxN 14.exN Qa5 15.Kb1 Qxd5. it looks very risquy but maybe for both side ...
  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #12 - 02/20/06 at 23:09:36
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Ametanoitos wrote on 01/26/06 at 16:23:52:
After a hard research Wink these are my conclusions: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.O-O-O Bd7 10.g4 Rc8 11.Be2 Na5 12.Kb1 Qa5 (with the idea transposing after 13.h4 Rxc3! and Black is OK.I can prove it to you another time if you want...) 13.g5 (the move that i mentioned.Black cannot respond with Ng4 because the h pawn is still on h2. That 's why white doesn't play h4) 13..Nh5 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.f4 Nc4 16.Bxc4 Rxc4 and Black plans Re8 with e6 and stands well.
It seems that the only critical line now is 10.h4 Rc8 11.h5 Ne5 12.O-O-O Qa5 13.Be2 b5 14.Nb3 (to my opinion 14.Kb1 is more accurate when i think black can survive only by 14..Rxc3 when white can play the amazing TN 15.hxg6!! forcing the non-exchange of Quenns! Check it out...) 14..Qc7 15.Kb1! when black's best seems 15..Nc4 16.Bxc4 bxc4 17.Nd4 Qb7! (Not Rb8, there is a small detail...) 18.Qh2 Rb8 19.Bc1 (the idea h6 Bh8 g5 Nh5 Nd5 get's  always the response Be6!!) when none mentions a possible improvemt over Lalic's 19..h6 that might be my idea of 19..a5 playing against the b3 plan. Black always has the defensive resourse of ..Rf7. 
 Any ideas please?

After 17.Nd4 Qb7 18.Bh6 seems very good for white (Golubev and Fritz !)
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #11 - 02/02/06 at 11:58:09
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Definately the answer is 13..Rxc3! 14.Qxc3 (forced) Qxc3 15.bxc3 Rc8 16.Kb2 (Nb3 is not so strong, i can provide you some of my analysis soon if you want) Be8 17.h5 (if Nb3 now ..h5! is strong!) Nfd7 18.hxg6 hxg6 (i have tried to make fxg6 work but Ne6 is very annoying and is strong when the bishop is at e8) 18.Bh6 and now 18..Nc5! is a big improvment (as i see it) on Sutovsky-Hodgson. 
  I'll let the exchange of dark squared bishops happen,win the c3 pawn (after Na4+) and when white double rooks on the 'h' file i'll play the simple g5! fixing the dark-squared weakness on the white camp, avoid being mated and get my king to f4 eventually while the white rooks will look silly doing nothing on the 'h' file. Thoughts?
  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #10 - 02/01/06 at 23:09:10
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Maybe you are right black has conterplay in the g4, Kb1, Be2. Can we discuss the position :
1.e4 ç5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 çxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nç3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nç6 8.Qd2 OO 9.OOO Bd7 10.g4 Rç8 11.h4 Ne5 12.Kb1 Qa5 13.Be2 and now what ? 
Hope to see good suggestions here !
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #9 - 02/01/06 at 15:11:58
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Maybe Ne8 is better that Rc6. My e-mail is back, so you can contact me now. I think that 9..Bd7 stands well but maybe 8..Bd7 (delaying castling) is a bit better avoiding many risks. The advantage of this system is that can be played against 9.g4 also.
  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #8 - 02/01/06 at 10:54:28
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Hy, your email doesnt work, do you have another adress ?
maybe 1.e4 ç5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 çxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nç3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nç6 8.Qd2 00 9.000 Bd7 is playable but i propose you to see another virtual game : 10.g4 Rç8 11.Kb1 Ne5 12.Be2 Qa5 13.g5 Nh5 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Nb3 b6 16.Bd4 e6 17.Nç3 b5 18.f4 Nç4 19.Bxç4 bxç4 20.BxBg7 Nxg7 21.Nç1 (instead of Qxd6) Rç6 22.e5 d5 23.Ne4 Ne8 24.Nf6+ NxN 25.gxf6 with good chance to mate for white with this f6 pawn and half open g file.

  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #7 - 01/31/06 at 10:02:19
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Yes but when you play g5 you forget about play at the 'h' file (a known positional feature in the dragon) and so after Nd5 i can retreat my queen to d8 and i have won smthing.Also when you play g5 following up with Nb3 is also antipositional because white wants to build with f4-f5 and the Nd4 helps with that plan.Don't trust the Fritz evaluation (a big mistake for the dragon fans).I know that because i play e-mail chess and i know when computers are right or wrong.Dragon is a dynamic opening and computer evaluations are static. 
  I like to give variations as proofs to my sayings : 13.g5 Nh5 14.Nd5 Qd8 and at my post i only give 15.f4 for white when Nc4 is adequate and you suggest 15.Nb3 a maybe n0n-forcing variation but typical for dragon is 15..b6 (black has all the time in the world to do this) 16.Bd4 e6 17.Nc3 b5 18.f4 Nc4 19.Bxc4 bxc4 20.Bxg7 Nxg7 21.Qxd6 cxb3 22.Qxd7 bxa2+ 23.Nxa2 Qa5 24. Qd6 Qa4 25.Nc3 Rxc3! 26.bxc3 Qxe4 and black has all the attack! 
Anyone can contact me at :ntirlis@ceid.upatras.gr
  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #6 - 01/29/06 at 15:01:55
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well, first if the place of the queen is always ç7 what about the variation 12.Be2 Qa5 13.g5 Nh5 14.Nd5 Qd8 (sorry ç7 is not possible) 15.Nb3 and if b5 16.Qa5! and if 15.Nb3 Nç4 16.BxN RxN 17.Bd4 when e6 ? is bad. can you send me yor email to discuss about it ?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #5 - 01/28/06 at 10:27:14
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After Nb3 the answer is always Qc7.Else white can play for instance h4 and transpose to a known line of the system with a tempo up! Then if g5 Nh5 Nd5 calmy Qd8 now and try to prove that white is over-extended. I'm not afraid of course of Bxa7 Cool. And after Bd4 e6 Nc3 b5! f4 Nc4 black is fine!
  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #4 - 01/27/06 at 10:14:58
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Let's talk again about the very good Korneev move after 10.g4 Rç8 11.Kb1 Ne5 12.Be2! after your suggestion Qa5 13.Nb3 Qd8 14.g5 Nh5 15.Bd4 (we have to check also Bxa7) Nç4 16.BxNç4 RxN 17.BxBg7 Nxg7 18.Nd5 white position seems better and easier to play, any idea to improve black play ?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #3 - 01/26/06 at 16:23:52
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After a hard research Wink these are my conclusions: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.O-O-O Bd7 10.g4 Rc8 11.Be2 Na5 12.Kb1 Qa5 (with the idea transposing after 13.h4 Rxc3! and Black is OK.I can prove it to you another time if you want...) 13.g5 (the move that i mentioned.Black cannot respond with Ng4 because the h pawn is still on h2. That 's why white doesn't play h4) 13..Nh5 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.f4 Nc4 16.Bxc4 Rxc4 and Black plans Re8 with e6 and stands well.
It seems that the only critical line now is 10.h4 Rc8 11.h5 Ne5 12.O-O-O Qa5 13.Be2 b5 14.Nb3 (to my opinion 14.Kb1 is more accurate when i think black can survive only by 14..Rxc3 when white can play the amazing TN 15.hxg6!! forcing the non-exchange of Quenns! Check it out...) 14..Qc7 15.Kb1! when black's best seems 15..Nc4 16.Bxc4 bxc4 17.Nd4 Qb7! (Not Rb8, there is a small detail...) 18.Qh2 Rb8 19.Bc1 (the idea h6 Bh8 g5 Nh5 Nd5 get's  always the response Be6!!) when none mentions a possible improvemt over Lalic's 19..h6 that might be my idea of 19..a5 playing against the b3 plan. Black always has the defensive resourse of ..Rf7. 
  Any ideas please?
  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #2 - 01/25/06 at 08:08:30
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Hy. I checked your suggestion of Be2! in one the latest book "sicilian expert". The Dragon is covered by Golubev and there is your suggested variation Be2. He says it's a original idea of Grandmaster Korneev and looks very good because the only real move for black is the gambit b5, but it seems insuficiant ... food for thought for black players who want to play Bd7, wich is now quoted ?! by Dragon expert Golubev.
  
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parisestmagique(Guest)
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Re: A critical test to Black's idea
Reply #1 - 01/24/06 at 18:00:11
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Your idea seems brilliant ! and bad news for this interesting line Bd7 ... I tried with my program the ideas Be6 with Cç4 but it fails, i try also Re8 and Qa5 but white is very very quick with the original plan ! h4 h5 Bh6.
  
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Ametanoitos
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A critical test to Black's idea
10/22/05 at 04:36:50
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I discovered recently a critical move order against the trendy 9.0-0-0 Bd7 line which doesn't mention at WWTDII. 
It seems to me that black has good resourses against every white try ( that's why this system rises in popularity) except this line: 10.g4 Rc8 11.Kb1 Ne5 12.Be2! (note that white's three last moves can charge order).My idea here was 12..Qa5 trying to transpose after 13.h4? and even after 13.Nd5 Qxd2 14.Nxe7+ black maybe be able to hold, white has a big imrovement on 13.g5! with Nd5 to follow after. Sad
Other moves tried here do not convince me etc 12..b5 is a pawn sacrifice that has many times proved to be unsound (in other similar variations) and it doesn't seem that black can claim enough compesation. Of course 12..Nc4 is not ambitious either because we all know that in this line after 13.Bxc4 white has won a tempo on his attack (compared with Bc4-Bb3-Bxc4 of the Yugoslav) and to my opinion 12..a6?! is not a serious try because white has made all the usefull moves compared to black's a6. This means that again white has gained a tempo that is leathal in opposite castled positions.
Does anyone has any idea or knows anything about this?
  
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