That is a fact.  If Black does not play ...d5 and instead plays ...d6 and white plays e4 with no pawn on c4, the game is a pirc defense, no longer a KID.

Just a suggestion for dgvincent is against the Kings Indian i find that the barry attack is really good.

Most Kings Indian players spend a life time studying the main lines of this opening such as the Bayonet Attack,the Fianchetto and Samisch etc, most will have little knowledge against it and maybe even less experience.

Pyschologically it may also have an effect ,in that 1) they are on unfamiliar ground,2) Most Kings Indian players love nothing better than to ram their Kingside Pawns down the board towards the white king so to see white doing this can be disheartening.

Although ramming the h-pawn down blacks throat is crude and may appear simplistic,most players(not including pros) dont defend correctly.
It is also important to know that it is very easy to learn and your position remains solid. It is also alot of fun to see KID players squirm!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the sake of showing/sharing that White does not stop Black from equalizing in this set up, I will gladly take this further.

I want to make sure I make myself clear.  I am not getting suckered into playing a correspondence game like Sevenviolets and GM Prie.   Therefore, I would like to agree on the definition of equalizing beforehand.  When Black has has equalized, he has secured as much as White has or has his own trumps which equal White's.  If white has play there then Black has play here.  If the position is dynamic or unbalanced, they should weight as much as the other does.  If white has snuffed any play away from Black, then White does not have any either.  If white takes the counterplay away from Black and white has play himself, then White has an advantage.  I hope we agree on this, because once Black has proven equality, I will have proven my point and hopefully closed this issue.

What do you say?

if you reply to my 9th move, which is 9...  h6 I will take that as an agreement/treaty.

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It is challenging to find a line in the Main line in which Black  does not equalize, or the Saemisch, or the Averbak, or the Fianchetto, or the Petrosian..... and so on.  And now we say that in the Colle, White keeps a small edge??  

It is true that everyone has their own opinion, but not everyone has their "own" facts.  So I want to know, and I am sure it will huge news when we send this to chesspublishing or the new in chess yearbooks, that White keeps a small edge in this or any line in the Colle.  The whole world of chess will be grateful.

Lost, I have agreed with you on other cases but here... I am sorry.  A claim like this, a huge one, to say that black does not equalize here is just...  fill in the blank.

If you don't know by now, I like to champion the cause for Black in the King's Indian and I go for the gusto.

I will do it in this case as well.  After--

1. d4 Nf6 
2. Nf3 g6 
3. e3 Bg7 
4. Bd3 d6 
5. O-O O-O
6. e4 Nc6 

I don't ... no, I can't fathom White stopping Black from equalizing.

Hypothetical Variation A.   

7. c3  (white tries to maintain the center solid).

7... e5 
8. d5 

(or 8.h3  d5 =)

8...   Ne7 
9. Ne1  (or 9.Bg5 Nh5)

Black here can, if he wants, proceed with his typical attack in the Classical Main Line King's  Indian and the absence of White's c pawn from  c4  does not help White at all if he is to have counterplay on the Q-side.  Why do this ?


Hypothetical Varation B.

7. h3 e5 
8. d5 

(or 8.c3  d5)

8...    Ne7 
9. Be3 Nd7 
10. Nbd2 f5 
11. Ng5 Nf6 
12. f3  f4 
13. Bf2 h6 
14. Ne6 Bxe6 
15. dxe6 Qc8 
16. c3   

(16. Bc4 c6)

16....     Qxe6 
17. Bc4   d5  
18. exd5  Nfxd5  

I don't even see a trace of White's claim in this position, but I do see Black's.

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This perhaps may not be the right thread, but, SF what is your preferred way? For Colle, Torre and London Sysytems, my preferred methodology has been to develop based on fundamentals and to try to get Bg4 if possible.

Quote:

Everyone has their own opinion.

- Lost Highway

The King's Indian is the best way for black to play against the Colle.  Against a "pure" KID, I've tried this:  1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Bd3 O-O 5.O-O d6 6.e4 

It seems to work good enough.  Nothing great, but a small advantage for white.

- Lost Highway