Latest Updates:
Normal Topic C11: This looks Brutal (Read 2981 times)
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: This looks Brutal
Reply #6 - 10/30/05 at 09:55:00
Post Tools
Be cautious of taking on d4 too early, as a white knight on this square can be excellently placed.

By the way, here is the game I was refering to:

[Event "FIDE WCh KO"]
[Site "Moscow RUS"]
[Date "2001.??.??"]
[White "Macieja,B"]
[Black "Ivanchuk,V"]
[Round "2.4"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2582"]
[BlackElo "2731"]
[ECO "C11"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Nce2
c5 6. f4 Nc6 7. c3 Be7 8. Nf3 O-O 9. a3
a5 10. h4 f6 11. Neg1 cxd4 12. cxd4 Qb6 13. Bd3
fxe5 14. fxe5 Ndxe5 15. dxe5 Nxe5 16. Bc2 Bd7 17. Qe2
Rac8 18. Bxh7+ Kxh7 19. Qxe5 Bd6 20. Be3 Qb3 21. Nd2
Rf1+ 22. Kxf1 Qd3+ 23. Kf2 Bxe5 24. Ngf3 Bxb2 25. Rab1
Rc2 26. Rhd1 e5 27. g3 Bg4  0-1

  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


Re: This looks Brutal
Reply #5 - 10/25/05 at 22:03:32
Post Tools
I was thinking of taking on D4 as it seems to take the venom out of whites restricting ideas. When a system is built on anticipating both levers it should be deeply flawed. with 50 billion pawn moves. so just aim for the sacrice like shirov but play it correctly huh. Will think about both. Thanks for the input.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10518
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: This looks Brutal
Reply #4 - 10/25/05 at 21:09:09
Post Tools
This is an important point indeed, which also occurs in the Tarrasch move order: 5.f4 c5 6.Ndf3 Nc6 7.Ne2.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: This looks Brutal
Reply #3 - 10/25/05 at 20:49:25
Post Tools
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Nce2 c5 6.c3!?, is not considered best due to 6...cxd 7.cxd f6!
Instead white should play 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Nce2 c5 6.f4! Nc6 and now, or after 7.Nf3, c2-c3. If black were to take on d4, white gets an excellent square for his knights.
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10518
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: This looks Brutal
Reply #2 - 10/25/05 at 19:13:20
Post Tools
The lazy way is transposing to the Tarrasch Variation: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5
a) 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Nce2 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.f4 cxd4 8.cxd4 Qb6 9.Nf3
b) 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.c3 c5 6.f4 Nc6 7.Ndf3 cxd4 8.cxd4 Qb6 9.Ne2
and now f6 is the thematical way to create counterplay.
An interesting example is Sjirov-Gurevitsj, München 1993. Berserkers like me will strive for a piece sac on e5 or on d4 and then Bláck's play looks brutal.

I am not impressed by Sjirov's early b7-b5 in his game against Anand.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Don`t give up that fast!
Reply #1 - 10/25/05 at 18:46:44
Post Tools
I don`t think it is that bad actually. White really has to watch out for sacrifices in the center, as in the game Anand-Shirov.  It would have been better for Shirov to just exchange queens after the sac, but that is another story.  I think you should see how Ivanchuk played this line as black against Macieja. In Anand-Shirov the black queen first went to b6 and then back to c7. Ivanchuk let his queen stay on d8, keeping options open.  I think an important idea for black is to play b6 early on, so that he can get in Ba6, killing that deadly white-squared bishop of white`s..

Take for instance the following line, where black plays Ba6 before white gets his bishop developed:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Nce2 c5 6. f4 Nc6 7. Nf3 Be7 8. c3 O-O 9. a3 a5 10. h4 f6 11. Rh3 b6 (NM suggests 11..b5!? as an alternative, but I haven`t looked at it yet. It looks sensible to get in Ba6 as early as possible.) 12. Ng3 Ba6 *, when black should be ok.

  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
basqueknight
Ex Member


C11: This looks Brutal
10/25/05 at 17:28:25
Post Tools
So i am always trying to go back to the french and i decided to look at my french classical book by Jacobs Today. After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5.Nce2.

The games i have gone over look devistating. Anand makes shirov look stupid. This is scary! My first thought was that white should be punished for making so many pawn moves. But upon further games i noticed its not so easy. What does the world think of this line. I dont like the looks of it much at all. Maybe there will be a new move brought forth to give black some breathing room but untill then it looks shakey.
« Last Edit: 08/02/11 at 20:25:19 by dom »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo