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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Those pesky anti-Sicilians (Read 15057 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #18 - 03/19/06 at 20:47:05
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I rather doubt that 3.c4 is really an improvement for White (but not necessarily worse than 3.a3 either).  This 3.c4 move was debated and analyzed quite a lot years ago in the pages of the MOB.  Unfortunately my MOB's are still hidden deep within my storage unit.  I would think the 3.c4 variation has been analyzed in many other sources since then.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #17 - 03/19/06 at 10:41:16
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One little line in the Wing gambit that I can't find in the chesspubfiles is 1.e4 c5 2.b4 cxb4 3.c4!? - I faced it once in Politiken Cup (3.c4 may be something of a Danish specialty) some years ago and actually had some trouble beating a low rated player after bxc3 4.Nxc3 etc.

So 3...e5 may be the soundest reply (and the one that scores the best in the database), but white's central control makes it more difficult to counter in the centre as usual in the Wing gambit. Could it be that 3.c4 is an improvement for white over the usual a3 stuff?
  
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MNb
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #16 - 02/20/06 at 02:40:33
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Not really: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b4?! cxb4 4.d4 (or 4.a3 Nf6 5.e5 Nd5) Nf6 5.Bd3 and only now d5 cannot be reached via the French. Barendregt-Darga, Amsterdam 1969, is an example.
  

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iggystiv
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #15 - 02/19/06 at 23:05:11
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Mnb, What if black is playing for an e6 sicilian?  Say,  1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b4...  Now, white does have the option of advancing the epawn and transing into a French, right?
  
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Viking
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #14 - 02/19/06 at 21:33:26
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For a while I used to play 2-,g6 against anything....

However be ready to play a Caro Kann after 2.c3 g6!? 3.d4 cxd 4.cxd d5 5.exd5!? (5.e5 is another common reply)
where -,Nf6 6.Bc4!? is whites best moveorder imo.

For some reason some sources says this a good version of the panov for black, but they seam not to consider Bc4 I think. Have I missed something?)

Btw, the same plan can be used against the smith morra: 2.d4 cxd 3.c3 g6!?  Smiley
  
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #13 - 02/19/06 at 19:34:49
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Inspired by MNb's post, I was wondering if anyone responds 2.c3 g6, or if this is known to be an inferior line for Black.  Maybe worth a closer look?
  
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MNb
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #12 - 02/01/06 at 03:14:57
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3...d5 does not transpose back to a French, as the e-pawn is still on e7. So 4.e5 allows Bf5 (though Black often does not play this immediately). I find that even less attractive.
Concerning the Van Duijn Gambit 1.e4 c5 2.a3 I never have found something satisfactory against 2...g6!
For your information: the Dutch amateur and politician Van Duijn has played 2.a3 with the idea 3.b4 for about 40 years.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #11 - 01/31/06 at 15:17:55
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Well, if you transpose back to a French (3..d5), you should take into account the advance option too and not only the exchange, which is even less 'mainline'...
For your information : I  f e e l  Bezgodov gets very far with his improved wing gambit (2. a3).
  
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MNb
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #10 - 01/27/06 at 20:39:32
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For this reason and for fun I have tried to make the Sicilian Wing Gambit work. As one might expect I found theory wanting. Here are two problem lines:

1.e4 c5 2.b4 cxb4
3.a3 d5 4.exd5 Qxd5 (Nf6 5.axb4 Nxd5 6.d4!?) 5.Nf3 e6 (e5 6.c4 or 6.Bb2 gives White decent compensation) 6.axb4 Bxb4 and White's best chance might be 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.Nc3 Qd8 9.Bc4 o-o 10.o-o, but I don't think it is enough.
3.d4 d5 4.exd5 Nf6 (Qxd5 5.Nf3 or even 5.c4 is less clear now) 5.Bb5+ Bd7 6.Bc4 Bf5 and Abelleyro-Arregui, Villa Ballester 1993, was better for Black.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Fernando Semprun
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #9 - 01/27/06 at 08:02:54
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As for an early Bc4, of course e6 + d6 (or Nge7 + d5) is pretty useful.

If you have already played d6, I would recommend e6 + d6. It is very useful, good for your chess and fun to learn several systems!

What I found it works best is to drop the attitude of 'I'll refute this crap' to just play chess. Main lines are just what people play more often...sometimes without reason (or with it).

Take for example the Sveshnikov. It was considered 'an unecessary weakening of d5'.

Or 4...e5, which had a boom in the 90's to practical disappearance....
  

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Fernando Semprun
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #8 - 01/27/06 at 07:56:50
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Hmmm, I was recently hammered OTB in a 2.b4 Sicilian. I have had experience before on 3.b4 (after my then usual 2...e6) but this was new and the guy is farily strong anyway (around 2210).

As usual in these cases theory paints a rosy picture for black, typically showing a 2250-2500 (say) game that is won by black. As my opponent proved things are not so easy (he went on to beat a 2360 with the same opening!)
  

Fernando Semprun
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mlz3
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #7 - 11/18/05 at 11:12:31
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Thanks a lot to all who have contributed to my humble thread. It was not really my intention to discuss specific lines of play against the anti-Sicilians. I guess I just wanted to know about those 2 books, which are the only ones I could really think of for my specific needs at the moment.

Your comments/advice have been greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
mlz3
  
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lost highway
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #6 - 11/18/05 at 08:26:28
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Quote:
I am thinking of getting a book on anti-Sicilians and 2 come to mind: The Anti-Sicilians: A Black Survival Guide by Dorian Rogozenko (did I get that title right?) and Beating the Anti-Sicilians by Joe Gallagher.

"Anti-Sicilians.  A Guide for Black" by Rogozenko is preferable.  It covers more than Gallagher's OLD book (more lines, less white space, more pages, bigger pages) for about the same price.

- Lost Highway
  
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madhacker
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #5 - 11/18/05 at 07:18:33
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I can see why you think it doesn't belong in the Anti-Sicilians (although I personally think it does), but why the Dragons rather than Open Sicilians?

Get Rogozenko's book, its content is pretty good (although quite a dry style of writing, I find). If you've got Gallagher's that's pretty useful too, but some lines are out of date - I don't know which ones are still fine, so I can't help you there.

From a Dragon player's perspective I'd suggest 3...Bd7 against the Bb5 lines, since this invites a Maroczy Bind-esque position that I personally quite like for Black; against the Grand Prix you just play 2...Nc6 and destroy it by following the theory, since there are not many players who play it out of anything more than laziness (they want to play something aggressive but don't want to learn Open Sicilian theory).

The others are down to personal preference, although obviously I prefer a fianchetto against Bc4 setups.

A couple of points of advice to you yourself, mlz3: one, that it's more useful to us (and therefore we can help you more) if you put more content in your posts, such as what you already play against these Anti-Sicilians; and two, that a "definite counter-strategy" isn't likely to come up any time soon, as those four and the Closed Sicilian are arguably the only Anti-Sicilians of real importance! The above-mentioned books are good starting points, but you need to look at the setups closely yourself to be confident playing either of them.
  
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mlz3
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Re: Those pesky anti-Sicilians
Reply #4 - 11/17/05 at 17:37:53
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Hi there, TopNotch!

Nice of you to chime in. Yes, maybe this thread belongs in the Anti-Sicilians but I guess I think of that section as being favorable TO those who like playing anti-Sicilians. I want to go AGAINST them!  Grin

(I hasten to add that I am a Smith-Morra player myself.  Shocked)

Oh well, all in fun and love of exciting, attacking chess! Any good words you might want to share?

mlz3
  
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