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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Stats on Furman variation of QGA (Read 5599 times)
lnn2
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #11 - 12/02/05 at 02:22:37
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IMO if the QGA is to be refuted, it must be with 3. e4! and 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3!. 7. Bb3 is too subtle to my unsophisticated mind, while I agree with much of what's just said about 6. Qe2.

For 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 exd4 5. Bxc4 Nc6 6. 0-0 Be6 7. Bxe6, there was a critical Beliavsky-Sermek game which Semkov kindly posted some analysis, but that has since disappeared before I could look at it  Embarrassed

The gambit 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 a6 is probably too much work for amateurs who meet the QGA rarely, but maybe that will change with Rizzitano. Black looks like he's holding up in a Geller Slav kinda way (see Sakaev/Semkov, or the lines in Sherbakov's brief ebook), but then you have Sakaev, Khalifman, and Beliavsky on the White side, so who knows..
  
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John Cox
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #10 - 12/01/05 at 12:06:32
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I think the absence of more than 200 pages to explain a complete White repertoire might have had more to do with it.

I don't fancy the line in Cox-Parker. It's true that there was a seductive improvement in that game with 36 Nc3 transposing into a probably winning endgame, rather than blundering an exchange as played by Cox. It's also true that more familiarity on White's part with the Bxd1 correctly recommended in your fine work would have been useful. But I think Anand's play in Kramnik-Anand was very effective.

Why is 3 Nf3 e6 4 Nc3 not a good move, someone?
  
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IMRichardPalliser
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #9 - 12/01/05 at 08:07:31
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John is correct that the absence of Fritz is felt in a few sidelines of my work. I still feel that the Furman is under-rated and a good choice, but there are indeed two problems:
i. Radjabov-Kasparov;
ii. Rublevsky's moveorder, although White may be able to get an edge with the simple approach adopted in Cox-Parker (4NCL 2005) in which there is also more than one way of recapturing on d1 which deserves attention.
  
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John Cox
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #8 - 11/28/05 at 14:53:10
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The move order to avoid the Furman is 1 d4 d5 2 c4 dxc4 3 Nf3 e6 4 e3 a6 5 Bxc4 c5, I believe. 6 00 Nf6 now is a main line and White doesn't have a good option to avoid this. I'm no expert to say whether White has options earlier, but I do know Rublevsky plays this way all the time.

There are various defences for Black which Richard's book (excellent though it is) doesn't cover - I recommend trying Fritz out on Hebden-Howell, looking up Sonntag-Dautov on Chessbase, and indeed some obvious line grabbing the d-pawn, which Richard rather glosses over and says is dangerous, is now thought to be possible. But it's true that the stats are very bad for Black.
  
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castlerock
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #7 - 11/26/05 at 02:22:52
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I play Furman variation and I don’t for a moment think Furman variation is a refutation of QGA. Idea of Furman variation is to get into symmetrical pawn structure with double open c and d files, wedge a white pawn on e5 and use the space for an assault on the king side. The defense more often than not results in exchange of pieces. Double open files can also lead to exchange of major pieces.

So the resultant duel can be technical and the technical superiority or lack of it may be the deciding factor.

I think, black can play for all three results, not withstanding database stats.

If QGA as a black defense as your idea and you are worried about Furman variation, I can recommend two excellent sources to arm you with the requisite knowledge.

1 Play 1.d4 by Palliser. His repertoire recommendation for QGA is Furman.

2. The chapter “Transformation of Pawn Structures” in Winning with the Pawn Structures by Alexander Baburin.

I’m sorry this doesn’t address the intention of your post except to say that there is no need to see ghost behind the stats of your database.

Just my 2c.
  

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Scott Rex
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #6 - 11/25/05 at 10:23:05
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Sorry I wasn't clear.  Yes, he does cover it in a chapter, but the stats say it is a brutal line for black.  Someone mentioned move orders to avoid the Furman.  Can anyone suggest one?

Thanks,
Scott
  
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lost highway
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #5 - 11/25/05 at 06:42:30
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Quote:
I haven't understood. Are you saying Rizzitano did not cover and the stats are pretty weak for black?

I don't have Rizzitano's book.  Scott did not say if the book covered 6.Qe2, which looks very good for white.

- Lost Highway
  
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castlerock
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #4 - 11/25/05 at 03:51:38
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Scott -

Is the reason you asked the question because Rizzitano does NOT cover this in his book?  It looks pretty weak for black and very simple for white.

- Lost Highway


I haven't understood. Are you saying Rizzitano did not cover and the stats are pretty weak for black?
  

CastleRock
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lost highway
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #3 - 11/24/05 at 19:43:16
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Quote:
Hi everyone,

I recently bought Rizzitano's book "How to Beat 1d4", and I was looking through the variations of the QGA (the base of his suggested repertoire).  Generally, when I look at a new repertoire book I like to use a database to check out the various possibilities at each move that the author might not suggest.  I also like to check the statistics to get a general idea of how lines are scoring and whether certain lines are drawish.  Well, I was surprised to see that the stats on the Furman variation (1.d5 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.Qe2) are catastrophic for Black, with white scoring over 70 percent in some of the continuations, and Black never scoring 40 percent in any line, at least in the two databases I looked at.  Is there something I'm missing?  If this variation were really that good, the QGA would be out of business.  What might account for such a high percentage in this line?  

Thanks for any input (and Happy Thanksgiving to US readers),
Scott

Scott -

Is the reason you asked the question because Rizzitano does NOT cover this in his book?  It looks pretty weak for black and very simple for white.

- Lost Highway
  
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KevinL
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #2 - 11/22/05 at 12:16:58
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Yes other threads are missing. Also from "General Chess". But all are still present on "1. e4 e5". Not sure what's going on.
  
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John Simmons
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Re: Stats on Furman variation of QGA
Reply #1 - 11/22/05 at 04:46:00
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Hello,

It is one of those lines that has always been more dangerous than its appearance or reputation, so black players have not been so prepared as they should have been. If look of game of Kasparov's from 2003, shows how black can equalise with accurate play. There are other threads on lines, where black accepts pawn sac, but don't believe it that line myself. Can also look at move orders to avoid Furman variation.

Bye John S

p.s is it just me, or have other threads on d5 disappeared today?
  
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Scott Rex
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Stats on Furman variation of QGA
11/21/05 at 23:32:29
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Hi everyone,

I recently bought Rizzitano's book "How to Beat 1d4", and I was looking through the variations of the QGA (the base of his suggested repertoire).  Generally, when I look at a new repertoire book I like to use a database to check out the various possibilities at each move that the author might not suggest.  I also like to check the statistics to get a general idea of how lines are scoring and whether certain lines are drawish.  Well, I was surprised to see that the stats on the Furman variation (1.d5 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.Qe2) are catastrophic for Black, with white scoring over 70 percent in some of the continuations, and Black never scoring 40 percent in any line, at least in the two databases I looked at.  Is there something I'm missing?  If this variation were really that good, the QGA would be out of business.  What might account for such a high percentage in this line? 

Thanks for any input (and Happy Thanksgiving to US readers),
Scott
  
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