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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) A new look at the Pirc (Read 5030 times)
JEH
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #12 - 11/29/05 at 06:07:50
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Nexirae, do you have the game reference to the Ivanchook game in your last thread at all?


Possibly Ferdinand Hellers vs Vassily Ivanchuk (1984)
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 c5 6.Bb5+ Bd7 7.e5 Ng4 8.e6 Bxb5 9.exf7+ Kd7 10.Nxb5 Qa5+ 11.Nc3 cxd4 12.Nxd4 Bxd4 13.Qxd4 Nc6 14.Qc4 Qb6 15.Qe2 h5 16.Bd2 Nd4 17.Qd3 Nf5 18.Ne4 Rac8 19.O-O-O Nge3 20.Bxe3 Nxe3 21.c3 Nxd1 22.Rxd1 Qa6 23.Qh3+ Kc7 24.Qe6 Kb8 25.a3 Rc7 26.Ng5 Qa4 27.Qe3 Rf8 28.g3 Qc4 29.Ne6 Rxf7 30.Nxc7 Qxc7  1/2-1/2

If so, I am intrigued that you have found a TN and will have another look at this line. I thought 14.Qc4 in the 12. ....Bxd4 line was just better for White, and I was always suspicious of giving up my Pirc Bishop like this! I perfered the lines with Seirawan's  earlier h5, which though dangerous for Black are very interesting and seemed to hold after I did a study of them. It would be even more useful to have 3 playable lines in the c5 Austrian!

JEH
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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MNb
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #11 - 11/29/05 at 05:56:44
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All those considering the 150-Attack: don't play Nf3 too early. After 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 o-o 6.o-o-o c6/Nc6 White should prefer 7.f3 and after 4...Ng4 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 it is nice to have f2-f4 available.
  

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8arms
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #10 - 11/28/05 at 07:30:35
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Nexirae, do you have the game reference to the Ivanchook game in your last thread at all?
  
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #9 - 11/28/05 at 05:12:43
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So, nexirae, you do not thnk highly of the chinese attack (4. Be2 5. g4) which holds such high esteem in this forum ?
  
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nexirae
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #8 - 11/27/05 at 20:57:30
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The problem with the Pirc is that white has way too many options for a clear advantage.

I've been playing the black side for a while now, and have good results because white generally tries to throw anything at me for mate (which doesn't work out too well generally), but the rational players gain an easy advantage.  I would say the hardest to play against is the straightforward 4 Nf3. 

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. f4 Bg7 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. e6 Bxb5 9. exf7+
Oddjob: This line is mentioned as an alternative in Pirc Alert, and I've found an improvement over the Ivanchuk game that has not yet been played OTB, but because of it would gladly take the black side any day.  But don't think I'd give away my precious novelty.  In any case, I've played this line a number of times, and have few problems.

White players:
4 Be3, 4 Nf3, 4 g3, and 4 Bg5 are all a pain in the ass.  Other moves, not so much.  Smiley 

NeX iRae
  
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8arms
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #7 - 11/26/05 at 15:01:04
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I like to know what you lot play against

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. f4 Bg7 5. Nf3 0-0 (instead of ... c5)

The popular move appears to be 5... Bd3, however, 5... Be3 is increasing in popularity with idea of not blocking the d-file with the intention of castling queenside.
  
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JEH
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #6 - 11/25/05 at 08:26:24
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My current favourites:

Classical with h3/Be3 (Davies' Dynamic Reti)
Fianchetto: very small winning chances for black.  
3. f3!?: aiming for a Samisch KID.

don't think Black has full equality in these lines..


Since combining Pirc/Modern and KID as a repetoire is popular, transposing into a Samisch isn't too bad for Black. However White has to know all the other stuff f3, which can even transpose into the French!

Fianchetto: Offering Black small winning chances generally results in reducing White's winnning chances too.

Classicals with h3: I've never been convinced that refuting the Pirc involves White spending a tempo on h3. Tricky line though, but ok for Black IMO.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #5 - 11/25/05 at 08:16:25
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Chinese attack refers to Donners horrible loss I guess.
Is there any reliable theory available on this (books? DVDs ? Websites ?)
  
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JEH
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #4 - 11/25/05 at 08:14:10
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In the Austrian Attack as White, I like to know what the current state of affairs with the Black side of this :-

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. f4 Bg7 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. e6 Bxb5 9. exf7+

Well there's 8. ... fe too, even if it does allow a forced draw because the tactical chaos of the other lines seems to favour Black, but it's dangerous for both sides. As for the above line, well Black gets a position where all his pieces are active, even, err hum, his King. I did a study of it and concluded Black can equalise, just about, but again it's dangerous for both sides.  

Here's another Pirc GM for the list, Daniel Fridman.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #3 - 11/25/05 at 05:34:08
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My current favourites:

Classical with h3/Be3 (Davies' Dynamic Reti)
Fianchetto: very small winning chances for black. 
3. f3!?: aiming for a Samisch KID.

don't think Black has full equality in these lines..
  
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #2 - 11/25/05 at 05:26:07
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In the Austrian Attack as White, I like to know what the current state of affairs with the Black side of this :-

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. f4 Bg7 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+ Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. e6 Bxb5 9. exf7+

I think 5... c5 doesn't look to healthly for Black in these critical lines, what do other people think? What has Black got in store going down these routes I wonder ?

Doesn't GMs Colin McNab and Alexander Cherniev play the Pirc on a regular basis?
  
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JEH
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Re: A new look at the Pirc
Reply #1 - 11/25/05 at 04:48:52
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The Chinese Attack
The 150 Attack
The Austrian Attack


My advice for Black:

Chinese Attack: Don't castle into it.

150 Attack: Don't castle into it. Play the 120 defence (a6)

Austrian Attack: Don't castle into it (unless you know the theory)


Quote:
I would also be interested in hearing some things from the people who use it on a regular basis in tournament practice. Do you find your opponents prepared or unprepared most of the time? Does it score well over all? Do you have any unique interpratations?


I come up against the classical systems a lot from 1800-2100 players, especially the old Be2 lines, and White often seems to be winging it and doesn't find a middle game plan. I score about 80% against this lot.

Next most popular is 4. Bg5. This is dangerous.
My advice for Black against 4. Bg5? Don't castle into it.

I meet the Austrian rarely. I think White players I meet assume you know the theory and so avoid it.

Unigue interpretations? Well I've played the Czech variation a lot and had to work out a lot of my own theory which is more fun than memorising other peoples stuff!

Quote:
Oh and for any one in general: Does any one know of a grandmaster who used or uses the Pirc on a regular basis? This would be interesting i know there are thousands of them these days(Grandmasters that is not pirc players) but i am interested in the popularity level.



Gurevich is top.

JEH
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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basqueknight
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A new look at the Pirc
11/25/05 at 01:59:41
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Well E4 D6 is always a very arguable topic. The pirc has its supporters. I am not one of them but that is irrelavant for what i want to start here.

Lets try and make a starting out place for the newly interested players in the Pirc. I dont know as much of the black side as i do the white but i did play some variation of it for a while. mine involved an early c6.

For the white side i think we should address these first not in any paticular order:

The Chinese Attack

The 150 Attack

The Austrian Attack

For black i think we should focus on ways to equalize in these which i understand to be some of the most testing lines.

I would also be interested in hearing some things from the people who use it on a regular basis in tournament practice. Do you find your opponents prepared or unprepared most of the time? Does it score well over all? Do you have any unique interpratations?

Oh and for any one in general: Does any one know of a grandmaster who used or uses the Pirc on a regular basis? This would be interesting i know there are thousands of them these days(Grandmasters that is not pirc players) but i am interested in the popularity level.

Well lets get it started

  
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