Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!? (Read 6080 times)
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #13 - 12/06/05 at 21:47:09
Post Tools
Of course SDO also mention 10...Qh4 and 10...Be7 - the title of their book could have been The Complete Alekhine with 1100 pages theory on 1.e4 Nf6.
They think Karpov-Alburt, Malta 1980, better for White and also 10...Be7 11.f4 Ng6 12.o-o Gavrikov-Kaunas, Lituania 1983.
After 8.o-o Be7 they mention, besides the main move 9.Nc3, also 9.Nbd2, 9.Be3, 9.b3 and 9.d5.

Thanks to SDO I can give you Vogler-Sämisch, 1951 (it is not indicated, that the game was played in Flensburg):
6...Bxe6? 7.d5 Bd7 8.dxc6 bxc6 9.Nc3 e5 10.c5 Nc8 11.Qb3 Ne7 12.cxd6 cxd6 13.Ng5 d5 14.Nce4? Nf5 15.Nf5 15.Nc3 Bd6 "and Black had reached an advantage. But White could have played better at several stages."

Sorry Viking, I have bought SDO 2nd hand for half the price and I intend to use it as my reference book for the rest of my life. Of course I will answer any question like: "what do SDO say about ....?  " Cheesy
Deutsche Gründlichkeit! is all too rare these days.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lg
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 604
Location: Lisbon
Joined: 04/18/05
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #12 - 12/06/05 at 16:45:39
Post Tools
In line a) suggested by Mnb, Krisany,Videki also mention
10....Qh4?! (a game Karpov Alburt,
1980) and 10 ... Be7 (their main line and also suggested in the old and nice Eales and Williams book) 11 f4 Ned7
12 Nc3 Bh4 13 g3 Bf6 14 Qc2 B*f3 15 B*f3 Ne5
16 Be2 0-0 17 f4 Ned7 18 Nc3 Re8 =
In line b) they also suggest 9 d5 B*f3 10 B*f3 Ne5
11 Be2 0-0 12 f4 Ned7 13 Nc3 Re8 = 

Khalifman only examines 6 0-0 (after 5 ...Nc6)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #11 - 12/06/05 at 16:11:14
Post Tools
This looks rather solid to me... At least I doubt that this is what should prevent me from playing 4-,Nc6.

A not so solid idea:
Bent Larsen mentions in one of his books that Sämisch(!) actually played 6-,Bxe6 in one of his games (from Flensburg) with the variation:
5.c4 Nb6 6.e6!? Bxe6  Shocked

Does any of u know the full game?!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #10 - 12/06/05 at 01:39:02
Post Tools
Thanks MNB.
I wish I had the bible by "Siebenhaar/Delnef/Ottstadt"...

I have to look at this with a board, but isnt there an error in your first variation:
a)8.d5 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Ne5 10.Bf3
I guess that should be Be2, No?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #9 - 12/05/05 at 21:51:39
Post Tools
Siebenhaar/Delnef/Ottstadt give 4...Bg4 5.Be2 Nc6 6.c4 Nb6 7.exd6 exd6 (7...cxd6 8.d5! as Black has not exd5 available)
a)8.d5 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Ne5 10.Be2 g6 11.o-o Bg7 12.Nd2 o-o 13.Rb1 Re8 14.b3 a5 15.Bb2 Ned7 Finmark-Cafferty, corr 1964, unclear.
b)8.o-o Be7 9.Nc3 o-o transposes to 5.exd6 exd6 6.Nc3 Be7 7.Be2 o-o 8.Nf3 Nc6 9.o-o Bg4.

I have corrected the typo mentioned by Viking in the next post.
« Last Edit: 12/06/05 at 05:31:26 by MNb »  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lg
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 604
Location: Lisbon
Joined: 04/18/05
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #8 - 12/05/05 at 12:48:36
Post Tools
To Viking.

Concerning

" 9-, Qxd1! looks good for black: 10.Bxd1 Bxd1 11.Rxd1 Nxc4 and black is a healthy pawn up"

Right!. Then, perhaps we should backtrack and 
choose 7 ed for White (instead of 0-0) leading to
the exchange variation. And White can always play
d5 attacking the Knight.

By the way, the Videki book is difficult to read (sometimes it is not easy to see in which variation you 
are) but it contains some interesting analysis on some
(many) important lines.

lg
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #7 - 12/04/05 at 10:02:31
Post Tools
Btw;
Does the Kassiber articles cover "everything" related 4-,Nc6 or just the crazy 5.e6!? variations?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #6 - 12/04/05 at 10:01:00
Post Tools
I think variation ii) by lg has an important improvement:

ii) 7... de 8. N*e5 N*e5! 9. de

9-, Qxd1! looks good for black: 10.Bxd1 Bxd1 11.Rxd1 Nxc4 and black is a healthy pawn up Smiley

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lg
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 604
Location: Lisbon
Joined: 04/18/05
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #5 - 11/30/05 at 13:25:06
Post Tools
Hi

In the line 4 Nf3 Nc6 5 c4  Nb6 6 Be2 black can play
6.... Bg4 7 0-0. Here
i) 7 ... e6 allows 8 ed cd 9 d5! ed 10 ed B*f3 11 g*f3
which is supposed to be a good line for White
Perhaps better is
ii) 7... de 8. N*e5 N*e5! 9. de Bf5 leading to a game 
Korenev Panchenko mentioned in the 2nd Burguess
book.
Perhaps, Black could play 6... de at once.
lg
 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scipio_Rex
Guest


Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #4 - 11/30/05 at 10:43:05
Post Tools
Sorry for the typos etc.
I'll never make fun of anyone's English again! Undecided
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scipio_Rex
Guest


Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #3 - 11/30/05 at 10:22:27
Post Tools
Hi Folks!

Regarding Videki's English, 'entertaining' is the appropriate term Grin
But to me, the lay-out is just horrible. Fortunately, there's a German version of the book, which is much more readable. The book is a nice overview of the Alekhine, but often very superficial (especially in the older lines).
Bagirow's classic "Aljechin-Verteidigung" from 1979 is more dependable in a lot of cases. 8)
This one has probably never appeared in English.
At least I only know of the Russian and German editions.

4 ... Nc6 is one of my favourite lines! Kaissiver calls it the Haakert-Variation. Haakert himself calls it the suicide-variation. He's been playing it for decades and most likely knows what he's talking about!
The Kaissiber-article is a must for everyone who wants to play. It contains an awful lot of stuff; yet there's still a lot to analyze. This line is fun (and sometimes horror!)
both in analysis and on the board (if you dare play it!).

After 5 c4 Nb6 6 Be2, ...Bg4 should be okay. It probably tends to transpose to the exd6-Exchange. Compare it with the line 4 Nf3 Bg4 5 Be2 Nc6!?!, when White's best is sopposed to be 6 0-0.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #2 - 11/30/05 at 08:45:36
Post Tools
No, I dont own any of the Kassiber articles (at least not yet...).

Yes, Videki's book contains quite a lot of entertaining english  Smiley which, I guess, also could be classified as irritating/frustrating... (Although I am the first to admit that my english may not be the best either...).

Except for the english, Videki provides an ok coverage of most Alekhine variations and it works more as a reference book for me.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Cox
Guest


Re: Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
Reply #1 - 11/30/05 at 08:19:15
Post Tools
Flattery will always get my attention, so here I am.

Videki isn't mentioned as a source because I didn't have it: the English is so awful I couldn't bring myself to spend the money.

However, I have now got a copy, so I will see what they say. Have you looked in the Kaissiber article and seen what they say? May have more relevance than any thoughts of mine.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Alekhine 4.Nf3 Nc6!?
11/30/05 at 06:52:42
Post Tools
First moves: 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3
---------------------------------------------------------------

I feel that J. Cox gives the 4.-,Nc6 line his stamp of approval in his excellent( !Cheesy) book on the Alekhine Defence.

The common opinion has been that 5.e6!? more or less refutes the Nc6 line. 

However, in the Alekhine book by Videki it is suggested:
5.c4! (exclam by Videki) Nb6 6.Be2!? where black may not have anything better than transposing to an inferior (!??) line of the 4.-,Bg4 variation.

6.Be2!? is NOT covered by Cox (Videki's book is btw not mentioned as a source in his book...)

How should black continue? 
Thoughts anyone? (A response from Cox himself would of course be appreciated....)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo