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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What to play against 1.b4? (Read 18445 times)
Arnold Gove(Guest)
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #20 - 03/07/06 at 09:49:31
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We weren't talking about the Sokolsky Opening so much as what to play against 1.b4. You suggested 2...Qd6 gave White "no chance of an advantage." You may be right, but you won't clinch the argument by quoting a game that uses 2...Bg4. So, if you know the line very well, what do you suggest for White after 1.b4 d5 2.Nf3 Qd6 - I thought 3.c4 was interesting.

AG
  
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BladezII
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #19 - 03/07/06 at 02:13:28
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1.b4 d5 2.Nf3  is no longer the Sokolsky opening.   Cool

You have arrived at the english  (with c4) or the reti extended fianchetto variation.  I know this line very very well since I play it too as White via the proper 1.Nf3  d5  2.b4  move order.

I know, objectively, that Black can equalize in this line as well.


Angry

Here is one of the most reliable lines for Black against this White system--

[Event "Italy KO rd1"]
[Site "Asigc "]
[Date "2000.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Raffaele, Enzo (ITA)"]
[Black "Negri, Jacopo (ITA)"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A06"]
[PlyCount "65"]
[EventDate "2000.??.??"]
[Source "Chess  Ltd"]
[SourceDate "2005.07.27"]

1. Nf3 d5 2. b4 Bg4 3. Bb2 Nd7 4. c4 e6 5. cxd5 exd5 6. e3 Ngf6 7. a3 Bd6 8.
Be2 O-O 9. Nd4 Ne5 10. d3 a5 11. O-O axb4 12. axb4 Rxa1 13. Bxa1 Bxb4 14. Bxg4
Nexg4 15. h3 Ne5 16. Nf5 Re8 17. Qb3 Bf8 18. Qxb7 Nxd3 19. Bxf6 Qxf6 20. Qxd5
Rd8 21. Qe4 c5 22. Nd2 Ne5 23. Nf3 Nxf3+ 24. Qxf3 g6 25. Nd4 Kg7 26. Qxf6+ Kxf6
27. Nf3 Be7 28. Ra1 Ke6 29. Kf1 f5 30. Ke2 Bf6 31. Ra6+ Rd6 32. Rxd6+ Kxd6 33.
Kd3 1/2-1/2

Black achieved easy equality and was even at least slightly better later in this game.
  

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Arnold Gove(Guest)
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #18 - 03/06/06 at 15:16:14
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Quote:
1...d5 with 2...  Qd6 is a strong system for Black and I so far am convinced White has no chance of advantage here either.


No chance? How about 1.b4 d5 2.Nf3 Qd6 3.c4!? White's aim is to lure the black queen out and gain a lead in development.

AG
  
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BladezII
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #17 - 03/05/06 at 19:52:26
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Gambit wrote on 02/09/06 at 04:09:08:
I am not afraid of the ...Qd6  system, because White can play better! First, after 1 b4 e5, the correct move is 2 a3, not 2 Bb2, which is too committal.  Secondly, after  1 b4 d5  White should play 2 a3, protecting the pawn. Now, after 2...Qd6 3 Bb2.

 



Here is something Jeremy Silma wrote --

1.b4  d5
2.Bb2 Qd6


This is the idea I have in mind. 2…Qd6 supports ...e7-e5, threatens the b-pawn and sets a little trap, e.g., 3.b5?? Qb4! when Black wins a pawn.

3.a3

So White is reduced to this.

3...       e5
4.e3     Nf6
5.d3

(5.Nf3 e4 favors Black.)

5...      Nbd7

Now it’s a question of where the other pieces go. Black will probably fianchetto his King's Bishop on g7 and support his center with …Nbd7 and ...c7-c6.

6.Nf3    c6
7.Be2    g6!
8.c4     Bg7
9.cxd5    cxd5
10.0–0    0–0

Uhlmann has comfortably equalized already; why, Black is even slightly ahead in development! The art of successful opening play is to create a position where one has the potential to play for the win. Here Black can look to press forward in the center or maybe even attack the White King, e.g.,  ...Re8, ...Nf8, ...h5 etc. in the style of the King's Indian attack. Of course, White's game is also fine but his tricks have been negated. The better player will win and one cannot ask for more.

Angry

1...d5 with 2...  Qd6 is a strong system for Black and I so far am convinced White has no chance of advantage here either.
  

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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #16 - 03/05/06 at 18:10:50
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Gambit wrote on 02/09/06 at 04:09:08:
I am not afraid of the ...Qd6  system, because White can play better! First, after 1 b4 e5, the correct move is 2 a3, not 2 Bb2, which is too committal.  Secondly, after  1 b4 d5  White should play 2 a3, protecting the pawn. Now, after 2...Qd6 3 Bb2.

I have some games that I played with 1 b4, and won vs. 1...e5. No need to trumpet 1...e5 as a "refutation". Thw White player did not know what he was doing, playing inaccurately. 


I don't undestand at all how this is "playing better".  How is 1. b4 d5 2. a3 Qd6 3. Bb2 supposed to be better than 1. b4 d5 2. Bb2 Qd6 3. a3?  You reach an identical position. 

Mayb I just need to have my coffee before I post in the mornings.
  
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Arnold Gove(Guest)
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #15 - 03/05/06 at 15:58:17
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Yes, although I don't see any coverage of the transposing 1.Nf3 d5 2.b4, so-called Santasiere's Folly.
AG
  
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #14 - 02/09/06 at 19:55:12
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I just had a look at the 1 b4 chapter in the 'Other Flank Openings' playable eBook, and also the Roadmap - it seems to cover this opening pretty well, certainly from Black's viewpoint. Smiley
We shouldn't forget the resources available on ChessPublishing.com! Cool
  
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #13 - 02/09/06 at 16:31:21
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"If equality was a refutation, then playing white would be unsound." Sure, agreed absolutely! -- but as I say I hadn't meant refutation in quite this sense. I just couldn't see how positions such as Hasangatin--Ramirez or Zschalich--Werner could be any fun for White, but then I'd be glad to learn he might have alternatives! How would you say White should handle things in this line? -- should he e.g. hurry with c2--c4, or not?
  
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #12 - 02/09/06 at 16:02:27
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I doubt 1.b4 would be played by someone looking for an advantage so much as someone looking to get onto unfamiliar territory for his opponent. If equality was a refutation, then playing white would be unsound  Wink

1...e6 is fine but unambitious, and in reality it's likely to transpose into something a little more mainstream.

I don't think 1.b4 is a bad move, I'm yet to lose with it in either correspondence or OTB play, but it is a move which needs to be reserved for shock value rather than used as the mainstay of an opening repertoire. Certainly, if I was faced with it out of nowhere, I'd choose 1...c6 and see how well my opponent knew his stuff.

I believe Tim Harding did a three-part series of articles for his Kibitzer on the Sokolsky, with the conclusion that the 1...e5 lines were great for the thematic rook sacs which can arise, but 1...c6 might actually be a critical test of the line. That might be the place to look for some inspiration!
  

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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #11 - 02/09/06 at 12:39:26
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Even more surprising is that noone suggested 1...e6, which is bound to land somewhere in posters existing repertoire or at least in the immediate vicinity of it.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #10 - 02/09/06 at 09:52:14
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My adverb was important: I'd meant to suggest not that I thought Black could obtain a clear advantage so much as that he could, with 1 ...e5, be at least equal so easily that White's rationale in playing 1 b4 might be called into question. That was my feeling from looking at the stuff on ChessPub -- but if you think I've misjudged the positions, or that White can significantly improve, I'd be interested to know!
  
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #9 - 02/09/06 at 09:25:11
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I'm surprised no-one's mentioned 1...c6 yet. When I used to play 1.b4 (and, I have to confess my amusement at the mention of a "refutation", since the move is totally playable and gives black no more than equality, in my mind), 1...c6 was always the trickiest move in practice. Add to that the fact that very few players of the white pieces seem to realise that 2.e3! is the correct move order, and will just wade in with 2.Bb2?! Qb6! which does give black an advantage.

1...c6 doesn't require much in the way of learning, and can always be followed up with ...e5 and ...d5, or ...d6, ...e5 and ...f5, while preparing the thematic ...a5 thrust. Seems like, if anything was going to refute 1.b4, this would be the move.

Regards,
Craig
  

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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #8 - 02/09/06 at 04:29:36
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Black should be ready to sacrifice a rook after 1.b4 e5 2.a3 d5 3.Bb2 Bd6 4.f4? exf4 5.Bxg7 Qh4+ etc, which is about the same as 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.Bd3 f5? etc. Just a warning.
There is nothing wrong with 1.b4 e5 2.a3 f5 3.Bb2 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e3 g6 heading for a pseudo-Leningrad either.
In the 1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 Bxb4 lines (Nf6 first is possible) I rather prefer d7-d5 to d7-d6.
  

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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #7 - 02/09/06 at 04:09:08
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I am not afraid of the ...Qd6  system, because White can play better! First, after 1 b4 e5, the correct move is 2 a3, not 2 Bb2, which is too committal.  Secondly, after  1 b4 d5  White should play 2 a3, protecting the pawn. Now, after 2...Qd6 3 Bb2.

I have some games that I played with 1 b4, and won vs. 1...e5. No need to trumpet 1...e5 as a "refutation". Thw White player did not know what he was doing, playing inaccurately.

  
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Re: What to play against 1.b4?
Reply #6 - 02/09/06 at 03:09:31
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my personnal favorite... 1.b4 d5 2.Bb2 Bg4 ! it's also working very good against 1.b3. And as noticed earlier, 1.b4 d5 2.Bb2 Qd6 is another great system with a huge center and not so much play against it for white (latter play some f6 and c6). It kinda remind me my favorite system when white plays the king's indian attack against my french, the setup advocated by watson with c5 Bd6 Ne7 f6... and so on. It's great fun on the black side. But good systems against 1.b4 are so numerous you should not worry much of such a move  Wink .
  
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