It's funny how something can seem obvious when you have stepped away from it for some time.  I think the fact that many of the black moves are dubious is because they waste time.  I think this about the modern in general, but I still manage to lose games against some modern players that really know their lines.

So thanks to some site users, I found that the site header was bad, so here is one of my games.  Technically this is a modern opening because black declined to enter KID waters, but I think that it is a valid idea against both openings.  The analysis is courtesy of Fritz12 with Firebird plugged in on 2 CPUs for 20 minutes.  So the question is "Are the computer evaluations wrong?"

I'd love to hear from some strong players on this game and the various alternatives and plans from black.

It seems to me that Black played typically natural moves for KID/modern.

Forintos & Haag's work is now out of print, but as far as I know it is the most recent work on the subject.  In which work does Gallagher comment on this variation?  I have Play the King's Indian Defense.

Time to revive an old thread?

What is the difference between the Hungarian Attack and the Kramer?  I know that Forintos & Haag wrote an "Easy guide to the Nge2 King's Indian."  From the lines presented in the book, I think white has excellent practical chances.  Some are probably right that black can retain some measure of equality, but how many minor systems can you find that have 126 pages of research ready?  I've used it in blitz and at the local coffee shop with good results in each.  The local coffee shop player tends to spend 2 hours for a game and generally reaches good positions.  I would point out that white has several ways to play and the inflexibility of the knight move is compensated by at least a couple of ways to play.

I am uncomfortable with Gallagher's treatment of the Kramer, which is fine but is not terribly great as a repertoire choice.  I found his "don't worry about it" a cop out.  Still, 5. Nge2 is not a terribly flexible move, so as long as Black avoids getting mated he should be able to obtain a good game.

My advice would be to play whatever you play against the Samisch, possibly with delayed castling.  If you do this, you'll have a general understanding of the ideas you're playing.  That, plus reviewing some games in the line you play from a Kramer move order, should be sufficient to get a playable game.  The Kramer is not the Bayonet Attack, after all.

Jerry_Taylor wrote on 02/15/06 at 03:13:47:


MaSu wrote on 10/14/11 at 20:37:04:


'Attacking Chess: The King's Indian Volume 2' covers this line very well from Black's point of view. Replying to the OP, yes, this line is about equal but may appeal to some as it is quite unique in character compared to other KID variations. If you play the Samisch as well, you can meet moves other than 5...0-0 with 6.f3, which may take the opponent out of his repertoire. 

Replying to the most recent post, most openings are good against weaker opponents.  In the above game Black would be fine if he played ...Na6 instead of ...Nbd7 as this way the c7-pawn is protected and Black has the option of playing ...Bd7 before ...Nc5.

By the way, a tip to people playing this as White: Often it is more dangerous to play h6 if it forces Bh8, rather than hg6, as the h8-bishop can be out of play for a long time as a result.

Willempie wrote on 10/01/07 at 13:08:57:


ok!