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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) best book on the modern and pirc? (Read 32679 times)
Stigma
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #55 - 11/17/06 at 02:35:12
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I have a soft spot for those books that contain FIRST lots of instructive explanations of typical plans and only THEN the concrete theory, which will then be so much more comprehensible (thus easier to remember and apply) for the average reader.

Favorite examples are "Pirc Alert" which taught me as much about dynamic pawn centres in general as it did about the Pirc, and Kindermann & Dirrs monumental "Französisch Winawer 7.Dg4 0-0"; Aagaard also tried it in his "Dutch Stonewall", which I haven't studied enough to evaluate. Such books require both pedagogical insight and a deep understanding of the opening's typical middlegame structures to pull off.  I dare say the strategic and deep Berlin Wall (by pure coincidence  Wink) is ideal for this format!

I know some masters think of all those explanations as wasted space, but they are not normally the main audience anyway...
  

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ano
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #54 - 11/16/06 at 22:16:55
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Starting Out 1 d4 is not in my view a database dump, far from it. I like it because it identifies some very key lines.  It would not surprise me if it took longer than 200 hours to write and that Starting Out d4 took longer because of the sheer breadth of the material.

I suspect Starting Out Sveshnikov would take longer as well- a lot of material to process.

What format are you thinking about for the Berlin Wall book? One format I like (speaking generally) was Well's book on the Tromp- using illustrative games with detailed notes and giving a choice of aggressive or positional lines. May not fit the Berlin though. The positions in that opening can also be optically messy and not easy to assess. Generally I like the illustrative games approach because you can see how top players approach the middlegames that result from the opening but there can be real "gaps" in the analysis.

I am guessing but I suspect Keano's suggestion of the tree of variations approach involves a lot of work on the part of a writer but it has real advantages (hopefully less gaps and more systematic presentation).


  
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Keano
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #53 - 11/16/06 at 12:24:24
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It makes sense that most of the opening books are going this way (games format) in that it is easier to put together and faster for the publisher.

Obviously these books can still be good efforts, but for me a true quality opening book MUST use the old tree of variations format, it simply cant be beaten  Wink
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #52 - 11/16/06 at 11:16:00
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We know that Donner thought Velimirovic was a small, ferret-like, person, of course. But apart from that not much.

I’d love to write about some of these more obscure figures but I’m not sure the publisher would stand for it – marketing and so on.

It’s certainly going to take over a hundred hours to write a decent openings book, yes. Of course it depends on many things. Joe Gallagher told me that Starting Out King’s Indian took him a fortnight, and when I expressed surprise he pretended to think I was surprised it had taken so long, and started making excuses about how he had his children to look after two days a week. But that’s a very good book indeed for what it’s trying to do. Of course Joe is very familiar with the material.

As a guide, I’d say 200 hours to do a Starting Out guide. Starting Out d4 probably took rather longer because there’s a wider range of material to choose what to present from than with just one opening. That’s to do the raw games and text; all the inserting diagrams, laying out, editing and so on is done by other people. Whether that produces something worthwhile rather than a database dump you’ll have to judge!
  
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MNb
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #51 - 11/16/06 at 02:54:41
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/10/06 at 21:21:38:
After that I'm doing a book for Quality Chess on the Berlin Wall, which I'm looking forward to, and then one for Everyman called Gambiteers, covering five players of that ilk (probably Morphy, Tchigorin, Marshall, Bronstein and Morozevich, IIRC, although that's not set in stone - in fact any other candidates gratefully received).


A few more obscure names, which might deserve a mention:

Tassilo Von Heydebrand und der Lasa was according to some people even stronger than Staunton and played quite some gambits.
The Swede HAW Lindehn is the inventor of the Danish Gambit and beat Steinitz with it. I have only four games of him, so some research will be necessary.
And what about Dragoljub Velimirovic? The man of the sacs Nxb5, Nd5, Nxe6 and Nf5 against the Sicilian also has played several Göring Gambits. What do we really know of him? The man has grown older, but has not changed that much:

Velimirovic,D (2535) - Pavlovic,M (2505) [B40]
Panormo zt (4), 27.10.1998
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Qb6 5.Nb3 Qc7 6.Nc3 a6 7.Bd3 b5 8.Be3 Bb7 9.f4 Nf6 10.0–0 d6 11.e5 dxe5 12.fxe5 Nfd7 13.Rxf7 Kxf7 14.Qh5+ g6 17.Qh7+ Bg7 18.Bh6 Qb6+ 19.Kh1 Bxg2+ 20.Kxg2 Qc6+ 21.Kg1 Nf3+ 22.Kf2 1–0

Of course the position after 13.Rxf7 pleases the eye in a diagram.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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ano
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #50 - 11/15/06 at 20:22:39
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Keres in his younger days is another possibility and I am not sure many of his early games would be familiar to readers. Of course there are a number of books that are readily available covering his career.

Morozevich is of course a very enterprising player who can play slightly offbeat openings. I was interested in John's comments about him in Starting Out d4 which I have just acquired from Amazon.com. Is he really regarded as one of the best middlegame players around but perhaps slightly handicapped by offbeat openings?

I enjoy chess books and while opening books will always be of interest, collections of games based on themes (in this case gambiteers) sounds like a worthwhile concept. My preference is for less but well annotated games. I notice Timman is doing something not that dissimilar with his book on attack and earlier books on Bv N.

Which leaves one question, how long does it actually take to write an opening book assuming one is looking to write something worthwhile rather than a database dump? Obviously it will differ per writer and per book but is it true it can take hundred plus hours even with the benefits of chessbase and the internet.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #49 - 11/14/06 at 10:14:51
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Mmmm, global warming... Malmö is +10 degrees again atm, not bad for November!  Smiley (an average of +10 over 24 hours is actually the definition of summer up here.)

Quote:
Vitolinsh - true; bit of a minor figure of course, but still. There's a good chapter about him in one of Sosonko's books.


Yes, Russian Silhouettes is where I first read anything about him. The 'minor figure' is perhaps a bit unfair, since we tend to compare players with their 'compatriots' and in the Soviet Union he was certainly a minor  but I don't think he was weaker than e.g. Marshall.

Anyway, personally I'd be more interested in the less worn out names - so Tschigorin is a good choice! Especially if you could invest some time & effort into short bios and a picture or two...

Others worth looking at, though I'm not sure if they could be defined as Gambiteers per se, would be players like Stein, Nezhmetdinov, Shabalov, Kupreitchik, and to be nationalistic - Gösta Stoltz - well, there's a long list of possible subjects once you start thinking about it...  Undecided
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #48 - 11/13/06 at 17:26:08
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Mike T; true but Everyman have just done a stand-alone book on him.

Vitolinsh - true; bit of a minor figure of course, but still. There's a good chapter about him in one of Sosonko's books. He committed suicide by jumping off a bridge on to a frozen river, I think. Impressive really - you couldn't do that these days what with global warming.
  
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Mike Thomas
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #47 - 11/11/06 at 21:07:28
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An obvious suggestion is Spielmann - after all, wasn't he called the "Last knight of the King's Gambit"?
  
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TalJechin
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #46 - 11/11/06 at 17:16:50
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/10/06 at 21:21:38:
After that I'm doing a book for Quality Chess on the Berlin Wall, which I'm looking forward to, and then one for Everyman called Gambiteers, covering five players of that ilk (probably Morphy, Tchigorin, Marshall, Bronstein and Morozevich, IIRC, although that's not set in stone - in fact any other candidates gratefully received).


Perhaps Alvis Vitolinsh could qualify? I don't know too much about him, except that he played the Cochrane gambit as a matter of honour and his name always kept coming up in the sharp sidelines in my old theory books  - besides, he has his own gambit in the Nimzo Indian...  Wink
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #45 - 11/10/06 at 21:21:38
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After that I'm doing a book for Quality Chess on the Berlin Wall, which I'm looking forward to, and then one for Everyman called Gambiteers, covering five players of that ilk (probably Morphy, Tchigorin, Marshall, Bronstein and Morozevich, IIRC, although that's not set in stone - in fact any other candidates gratefully received).
  
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ano
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #44 - 11/06/06 at 20:05:29
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John & Edward

What are your next book projects. John I know you are writing on the Sveshnikov. What other books are lined up. Dragon 2 Eddy?
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #43 - 11/02/06 at 15:36:16
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Lol! Very amused by that last one. Congrats on the IM title, btw. When did that happen? Let's catch up at 4NCL (assuming I ever make it back to England...)
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #42 - 11/02/06 at 14:54:44
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My grandfather was a painter and decorator, Eddie. When he died he left me his trousers to wear at chess tournaments.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #41 - 11/02/06 at 11:37:48
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This clearly illustrates that lawyers are lazy, they have so much spare time they can even write whole books on chess Grin
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #40 - 11/02/06 at 11:25:39
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A lawyer? You kept that quiet, I thought you were a painter/decorator.  Smiley
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #39 - 11/02/06 at 10:37:05
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I'm a lawyer, ano, but I have also written a few chess books.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #38 - 11/02/06 at 08:57:44
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Quote:
The Gallagher book is not bad at all (it is actually quite a good book), but it seems to me to lack the "colour" and "passion" of his King's Indian books.


I feel exactly the same. Gallagher don't have faith in the Pirc and this infect the reader.

One week ago I received a copy of Pirc Alert! What a book! Terrific! At the moment the most I like are the "strategic chapters". This is the better opening-middlegame book I have ever seen. The only fault i have found is the extensive use of the phrasal verbs in the explanations, but obviously that is not a problem for english-american people.

  

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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #37 - 11/02/06 at 01:42:40
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Agreed. I really like the discussion on the "sicilian" (c5, cd4) "ruy lopez" (e5, not ed4) and "philidor" pawn structures in "Pirc Alert". I know at least one critic (Bauer I believe) have said the introduction to that book is somewhat long-winded. I agree it is not short and does repeat things more than once, but the material is excellent. Makes me wonder why anyone would play the Philidor by the way.

The Keene and Botterill books on the Pirc and Modern are classics.

Not sure about Tiger's Modern although it is certainly a good read. I am a little sceptical about some of the positions though (at least to my uneducated eye) but I am not strong enough to offer definitive analysis. I am not convinced that black is okay if White plays early f4 and that it is in black's best interests to avoid the main lines of the Austrian attack against the Pirc.

The Gallagher book is not bad at all (it is actually quite a good book), but it seems to me to lack the "colour" and "passion" of his King's Indian books.

IM John Cox are you a semi-professional player/author? I thought I read somewhere that you are a lawyer (if that is true I hope you don't take that as being defamatory as I am a lawyer also).
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #36 - 11/01/06 at 11:42:53
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In my opinion g3g6 is absolutely spot on. Keene's (and Botterill's; let's be fair) two books were superb and anyone who can get copies should do. The best present-day ones are Pirc Alert and, in its style, Tiger's.

It's probably no coincidence these are all written by devotees of the opening. It's that kind of opening.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #35 - 10/28/06 at 09:32:45
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To JEH - my book gives full coverage, it isn´t a repertoire book. So roughly equal space is devoted to 5...c5 and 5...0-0 in the Austrian Attack. It´s due out in February,
James
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #34 - 10/25/06 at 14:46:32
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Will let James-san comment for himself regarding the book. Sure he will pop by soon.

  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #33 - 10/24/06 at 13:15:43
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Thanks for the titbit bibs.

Can you tell us if this is a repetoire book or a full opening coverage, and if it is a repetoire book, are we finally going to get one that doesn't just parrot that forced draw malarky (5. ...c5) against the Austrian?
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #32 - 10/24/06 at 12:52:28
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Hi,
Re: Pirc books. Have all the others mentioned.
Best one coming out soon.
James Vigus' new book is certainly worth a look and will answer all your queries. An old mate and colleague of mine, so chipped in with the odd comment or so as he wrote, which explains why I've seen it. Have seen the analysis and am being persuaded to move back to Pirc ground.
Bang up-to-date and sorts out the assorted bash-the-pirc malarckey foisted on readers in the various texts already mentioned.
Watch out for The Archbishop Attack!...

cheers
Simon Bibby

  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #31 - 10/02/06 at 19:10:12
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Hello Edward,

Videki’s Pirc defence have one problem. It’s based mainly on new material. Lot of older continuation are not mentioned /I found similar problem with Yakovich’s Sicilian Sveshnikov. Side lines are nearly ignored, for this is the main book old russian Svesnikov by Svesnikov by publisher Fiskultura I sport/. Evalution of fragments are very often too late – in games exist critical positions sooner than Videki mentioned. This type of books have problem – if you have compuetr with good database, database program and any engine, you don’t need this type of book. Yes, in bed is book better. But I personaly don’t like study this type of book. For me is more important understanding position than remembering theoretical lines. I think that you prefer the this too Smiley.
Speelmann/McDonald – I was originaly disapointed with this book. Lately I time to time look into, because here is lot of interesting samples with all ideas based on modern. There is no too deep material, but interesting collections about modern. I think, that every player here found own modern’s “Star” game.
An Explosive Repertoire for Black/Yrjola – I forgot mentioned this book. Reason is easy. This book is mainly about 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4 and 2.c4 e5. Here is small part about pirc, but mainly based on Ultimate Pirc and repertoar is similar to Pirc Alert. There is minimun new material about  Pirc.
Tiger’s modern – literary very good, include lot of own analysis, mostly checked with computer. All games are very interesting, very excitement. Tiger covered all about “his” modern. However I must say, that Tiger’s concept after 8 year playing I found as unsuitable for tournament games. For rapid or blitz is probably OK, because here very often win “poker face” Smiley, but in long games is smaller space for bluff. I exchanged few messages on Chesspublishing with Michael Ayton and we both agreed about serious problem in Tiger’s modern.

g3g6
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #30 - 10/02/06 at 15:22:09
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Hey everyone,

Interested to see your opinions on books. As I am a big fan of the Modern I thought I might share my experiences of the texts currently under consideration.

Alas I do not have Norwood's book, although I would very much like to acquire a copy (out of print, it seems).

Details of the lines covered would be much appreciated - in particular, what does it cover after 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3?

Pirc Alert was a great book - truly superb. Some of the theory is a little dated now, but it is still crammed full of instructive examples and useful ideas that are relatively unexplored. Even several years on, without a doubt, I would recommend this book.

Videki Sandor's work on the Pirc has received a lot of bad press on this site, and I would submit that much of this is unjustified. Sure the book has some problems, but it also has a lot of analysis that has hitherto gone unmentioned in Western texts on the Pirc/Modern. I have a copy on my shelf right now, and regularly refer to it.

Nunn/McNab - Ultimate Pirc: Well, like the good Doctor said, these sorts of books are a bit dated these days. Nevertheless, it remains rather useful, if only because it locates a variety of key examples. When I first acquired a copy of this I have to admit that I was rather disappointed - there is very little by way of new analysis, and several critical positions are assigned token evaluations without a proper investigation. However, at the end of the day one can't be too critical of a reference book.

McDonald/Speelman - The Modern: This is a genuinely good book in many respects, and was my first book on the Pirc/Modern. Unfortunately the coverage it provides is rather inconsistent, with some lines covered in depth, while other important lines are simply skirted over. My understanding is that Speelman wrote the second half, dealing with 1.d4, whereas McDonald wrote the first half, dealing with 1.e4. Speelman is an expert on the Modern, whereas I am not sure how often Neil employs it from the Black side, so that may explain the apparent disparity in original analysis between the first and second parts of the book. All in all it is not a bad text.

An Explosive Repertoire for Black - wonderful book, although handle with care in two respects: analysis on the Pirc is a little light compared to the time they spend on 1.d4 d6, and the evaluations are often a little more favorable to black than might be deemed objective. Even so, great book, full of wonderfully tricky sidelines.

Tiger's Modern - This is a tricky one. When I first received my copy of this I really liked it, and in many respects I still do. There is a lot of fresh analysis, and some wonderful explanatory content. On the other hand some of the assessments seem way off the mark. I have only flicked through the first couple of chapters, but already I have found several positions where Tiger has concluded the analysis prematurely with a comment such as "...when Black has a fantastic position", when in fact White appears to be clearly better (indeed Black is in serious trouble in a few of the examples I have stumbled across). That being the case I feel reluctant to rely on this text as a bible rather than a very general guide.

Gallagher's Starting Out book is very good, and in places is very helpful even for those who are not "starting out".

I understand that my old teammate James Vigus is writing a book on the Pirc. Would be very interested to see how that turns out.

I hope this was helpful. Am very happy to discuss Pirc/Modern lines and books should anyone be interested.

All the best,

Eddie
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #29 - 10/02/06 at 14:07:29
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Best book about Pirc and Modern? From my side best are Pirc Alert by Alburt and Keene’s Pirc defence and Tiger’s modern by Hillarp Persson and Keene’s Modern defence.
Both Keene’s books are over 30year old, but are /mainly Modern defence/ full interesting IDEAS. Of course, all variantions are not correct, because during 30 year was founding improvements for one side, but still both books are intersting. Pirc Alert covered only small numbers variantions, but have high degree verbal explanation – long second part of book is probably best. I like it, i carefully read Pirc Alert three times. Tiger’s modern is full original analysis. But in this moment i think, that 4..a6 have big problems and i am looking for another opening.

Next very interesting book is Modern defence by Speelman /from Everyman Smiley/. There is little problem /not first time/ - few games, comments or analysis are based /copy+paste/ on Keene’s book, but Speelman this fact mentioned.
Ultimate Pirc from McNab+Nunn and Videki‘s Pirc defence are full games or fragments. Lot of materials, but authors don’t share his own opinion and preferable continuation. Very interesting is one from latest interview with John Nunn /http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3318/ , where he says: No, I think this type of book, this kind of encyclopedic book, there’s just no point anymore. The type of opening book that I used to specialize in… I think time for that is gone now. This is very important view.
Gallagher‘s  Starting Out: Pirc defence is classical book from this serie. Lot of verbal explanation for target players below 2000. We need more special material Smiley.
Modern defence by Dave Norwood is interesting book, but book have only „few“ pages and personaly included material i dont like very much.
Carpathian warrior by Lalic is interesting book, but covered mainly some special variations /or modern with 4.f4/ and i fear, than are not checked with computer, but are very inspiring Smiley
There is 3+4 book OFWATA – interesting concept based on 4.f4 against Pirc and Modern. I have really doubts about right evalution in this books.
Hippopotamus rises by Andrew Martin is clearly bad book. Maybe this was reason, why was Martin's Modern defence canceled by publisher.

  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #28 - 10/02/06 at 02:38:56
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"Can I enter another candidate for the best book on the Pirc? My book 'The Pirc in Black and White' (Everyman) will be out in 2007  Well, I certainly can't promise that it will be better than all the others, but it might help to dispel some exaggerated rumours of the Pirc's demise."

Hope this is a real contender. Actually the first specialist opening book I read was on the Pirc by Keene and this book inspired me to take up this opening. If this book is half as good as that book it will be a very good book.

It sounds like James will address a number of lines which have been advocated against the Pirc. The Pirc along with the Alekhine (I played against 4. Nf3 de long before it became popular following Larsen) was a favorite of mine when I was active as a junior (in the late 70's). I stopped playing it in 1978 not because of any specific problems with it but because I was encouraged to play the Sicilian and 1...e5.

It sounds like there are many debatable points. For example most writers including Gallagher don't seem to like Black's chances against the Austrian after 5..0-0 6 Bd3 Nc6 (hence the interest in Na6) but I read somewhere that that may not be so bad for black (I don't remember where).

I hope there is coverage of 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. f4 Bg7 5 Nf3 c5 6. dc Qa5 7 Qd4 which was mentioned by Gallagher in his Starting Out book and so far as I am aware no convincing answer has been discovered.

I also think early c5 as played by Korchnoi against Karpov's Classical v the Pirc in 1978 WCC may not be so bad even though it can transpose to a line of the Benoni. Is it too much to ask for coverage of this?
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #27 - 09/29/06 at 15:44:12
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8...Bg4 is playable, although White should be able to get a slight edge in a complex position. I would happily play either side.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #26 - 09/29/06 at 07:52:15
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Everyone here says the Pirc is busted after the moves 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Fg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.00 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.f5 but what about 8.d5 Bg4 !?
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #25 - 09/19/06 at 16:52:45
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Yes, I noticed that Khalifman recommended 1 e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 g6 4 f4 Bg7 5 Nf3 c5 6 Bb5+ Bd7 7 Bxd7+  Nfxd7  8 d5 b5 9 Nxb5  (instead of Shirov's Qe2, which is fine for Black in any case).

I sincerely doubt that black has any real problems in this line. Perhaps evidenced by the near complete lack of interest in it since it was recommended.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #24 - 09/14/06 at 03:46:30
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I have also seen a section of the GPA on Michael Gueller's site and I completely agree. It is ridiculous, to assume, that Karpov would have strived for self mate as in the line given by DAP. If this is representive for the whole book, then everyone, no matter what level, just should leave it in the shop.
For those interested: it's the Caro-Kann game Dzin-Karpov, Mazatlan 1988. The "winning" attack begins with 18.Rh3.
  

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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #23 - 09/13/06 at 19:04:30
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(Off-topic alert)

With regard to that Dzindzi/Alburt/Perelshteyn book, I looked at an excerpt published on the Chess Cafe website.  It was (part of) the section advocating the Exchange Caro-Kann for White.  It looked quite slapdash to me; in a couple of major variations I thought better moves for Black were evident, but they just showed some line where Black exhibited the defensive qualities of a wet paper towel.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #22 - 09/13/06 at 18:24:32
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Can I enter another candidate for the best book on the Pirc? My book 'The Pirc in Black and White' (Everyman) will be out in 2007 Smiley Well, I certainly can't promise that it will be better than all the others, but it might help to dispel some exaggerated rumours of the Pirc's demise. It's great to see some recent threads and good analysis on this opening.

To Marc: the author of the ChessBase CD is Lugovoi.

'Carpathian Warrior' is an interesting book, if not recommended as bedtime reading. It contains a great deal of useful analysis on an interesting, recently rediscovered idea, 5 a3 in the Austrian Attack (a kind of waiting move also directed against Black's intention of ...c5 and ...Qa5).
It also has a long section on the much-discussed 'Chinese Attack' (Be2 and g4). However, some of the other sections, on more mainstream Austrian lines, are less inspiring, and several times the authors present different analysis of the same positions, not noting that a transposition has occurred.

To JEH: Dzindzi has refined his Be3 and h3 line in the very recent book with Alburt and Perelshteyn, Chess Openings for White, Explained. (I've reviewed this in the September British Chess Magazine.) I trust, though, that you will remain healthily unconvinced by his conclusions...

Perhaps the biggest current theoretical dangers for the Pirc are to be found in Khalifman & Soloviev's book recommending the Austrian Attack for White. Could I invite discussion about one of their main lines? They don't give the game Medvegy-Beliavsky but it seems to me a critical one.

Z.Medvegy (2498) - A.Beliavsky (2668) [B09]
Hungary 2003

1 e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 g6 4 f4 Bg7 5 Nf3 c5 6 Bb5+ Bd7 7 Bxd7+
(long thought innocuous, until championed by Shirov)
Nfxd7
(7...Nbxd7 is ok, but taking with the king's knight allows a quick queenside expansion that will otherwise be stifled by White's a2-a4)
8 d5 b5 9 Nxb5
Khalifman & Soloviev's recommendation for White. White is aiming for an ending, whereas Shirov usually plays 9 Qe2, which is a different kettle of fish!
9 ..Qa5+ 10 Nc3 Bxc3+ 11 bxc3 Qxc3+ 12 Bd2 Qc4 13 Qe2! Nb6
All quite forcing. 13...Qxc2 14 0-0 followed by e5 or f5 as appropriate is very dangerous, as K&S point out, while 13...Qxe2+ is somewhat passive.
14 a4 a5 15 Qxc4 Nxc4 16 Ke2!
After 16 Bc3 0-0 White's centre can be quite vulnerable to an ...f5 break. This is almost always key to Black's strategy here.
16 ..0-0
K&S don't consider this obvious move, instead concentrating on 16...Nd7 which is less flexible as the knight can no longer hop to a6 and perhaps b4.
17 Kd3
The big question is: why not 17 Rhb1? In addition to Rb7, White now threatens to move the bishop and play Kd3, trapping Black's knight. I think Black must strike back at once with 17...f5 when one conceivable Fritz-generated line is 18 Ng5 fxe4 19 Rb7 Na6 20 Rxe7 Nxd2 21 Kxd2 Rxf4 22 Nxe4 Nc7 23 c4 Kf8 24 g3 Kxe7 25 gxf4 when Black must still take a bit of care to steer towards a draw. I'm not offering this as best play, but just as work in progress!
In the remainder of the Beliavsky game White was pressing a bit but I suppose Beliavsky never felt in very serious danger:
17 ..Nxd2 18 Nxd2 Na6 19 c4 Rfb8 20 Rhb1 Rb4 21 Rxb4 cxb4 22 Nb3 Nc5+ 23 Nxc5 dxc5 24 e5 f5 25 exf6 exf6 26 Re1 Kf7 27 Re6 Rb8 28 Kc2 b3+ 29 Kb2 Rb4 30 Ra6 Ke7 31 Rxa5 Rxc4 32 Ra6 Rb4 33 a5 c4 34 Rb6 Rxb6 35 axb6 Kd6 36 g4 ½-½

So the questions are: if 9 Nxb5 is so good, why do Shirov et al avoid it? Is it because White doesn't have anything very serious after Beliavsky's 16...0-0? But what do people think of 17 Rhb1 f5, and are Black players put off playing 7...Nfxd7 because of the prospect of defending this endgame?

Apologies in advance if I'm slow to respond to any replies on this: I might not have much Internet access for a week or so.
Looking forward to more Pirc discussion!

  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #21 - 09/13/06 at 16:53:08
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BlkSabb wrote on 02/20/06 at 04:56:09:
-Pirc Defence Chessbase CD is another good choice for the basic plans and ideas and well annotated games.


¿Who is the author of this Chessbase CD?

By the way, it seems that everyone here agrees that "The Tiger Modern" is an excelent book. Tiger says he worked 3 years on it, and it shows.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #20 - 06/07/06 at 20:09:14
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Which book is the best will obviously vary from player to player and with the experience and playing strength of the reader. Speaking as a relatively weak but improving player, as I explained in another post yesterday, perhaps I can offer a viewpoint of someone who hadn't encountered either opening before getting 'Pirc Alert' on a friends recommendation around 18 months ago. I can't tell you which offers the most accurate analyses but I can tell you what I gained from the 5 books I now have and which have helped me go from losing just over 80% of my black games against 1.e4 last season to winning about 80% of them this season.

1. Pirc Alert! - I plan to go back to this book in the future as I found the style easy to read but the content a bit intimidating due to the number of different lines it seemed to give. However, even if I never take it off the shelf again it might well prove to be one of the most valuable opening books I will have read for chapter 3 alone- How To Study an Opening might only be 7 pages long but it changed the way I approach the subject- I now can get more than just eye-strain and a headache out of it! The next chapter which treats the Pirc as a concept rather than a list of moves was also an approach I hadn't come across before.

2. Starting Out: The Pirc/Modern- I think I wasted my £12.99 on this one as I couldn't get into it so got nothing out of it. I don't know why but I had the same problem with the Sicilian book from the same series. They may have the best analyses going for all I know but the best I can say for them is that they look nice on the bookshelf....

3.The Hippopotamus Rises: I only got this one a couple of months ago- I have a feeling it will be more entertaining than informative in the long run but I have enjoyed it so far and used the basic ideas to get a draw with a player rated 450 above me so it has been of use already. A bit expensive for 140 pages but fun all the same, which counts for a lot as far as I'm concerned.

4.Tiger's Modern: This is the best of the bunch for me! Easy to understand and written in a clear style with a good dose of wry humour. Fun to read and presented the ideas in such a way that I was able to use them successfully- what more could you ask for!

5. Journal of a Chess Original by Stephan Gerzadowicz: Not an opening manual as such but a well written games collection with quite a few Modern Defence games well explained and , once again, entertainingly written. I enjoyed reading what thoughts were going through the players head rather than a dry technical explanation of the moves alone.

In the unlikely event that I manage to become an expert player ( at the age of 38 I have probably left it a bit late!) I might revise the way I look at these books, but I play chess for the enjoyment I get out of it so I would welcome comments on the entertainment value of the other books people have mentioned as well as their educational value.
Thanks for listening/reading!
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #19 - 02/23/06 at 10:10:25
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Can there be a best book on a subject like the Pirc? Smiley
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #18 - 02/22/06 at 16:53:21
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MNb wrote on 02/22/06 at 02:16:45:
@JEH
I hope for you, you also have your stuff ready against 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 as the sources 1-3 you mention are really not good enough. This attacking system is one of the very few I have remained faithfull for more than 20 years - because I keep on crushing Pirc addicts like you with it!


Those sources might get a repetoire up and running, but against a player of your experience then yes, more work is required.

PS I don't think you've met a Pirc addict quite like me yet   Shocked
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #17 - 02/22/06 at 02:16:45
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@JEH
I hope for you, you also have your stuff ready against 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 as the sources 1-3 you mention are really not good enough. This attacking system is one of the very few I have remained faithfull for more than 20 years - because I keep on crushing Pirc addicts like you with it!
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #16 - 02/21/06 at 13:44:38
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chessy wrote on 02/20/06 at 09:25:56:


This line is also recommended in Roman's Lab Volume 25, "Easy Way to Beat the Pirc Modern defence". Oh if only it was. I have my antidote ready  Cool. Yep, as a Pirc junkie, I pick up the stuff written for White too.

LivePircLive!
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #15 - 02/21/06 at 12:52:32
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I'm really enjoying this discussion. Please keep it up!
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #14 - 02/21/06 at 12:49:15
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Quote:
OK, here is it: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.f5 gxf5 10.Nh4 fxe4 11.Nxe4 c4 12.Nxf6 Bxf6 13.Rxf6 exf6 14.Bxh7 Kxh7 15.Qh5 Kg8 16.Ng6 or so draw. Everything is OK? No. Primitive 13.Bxh7! Kxh7 14.Qh5 Kg8 15.Rf3+-


Spot on g3g6. This highlights the dangers facing Black against the Austrian. 9 f5 is recommended by Khalifmann in OFWATA. 9. ... fg is too dangerous IMO. In fact, Black may even be worse by force. I like the look of 9. ...Qa5 instead as in Hammer - Markowski, St Vincent 2005 which is in Megabase but not in OFWATA. Ah, so many paths to explore!

As for asking Mr McNab, well he plays the oldschool Nc6 against the Austrian, and scores mightily well!
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #13 - 02/21/06 at 12:31:34
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I've been playing the Pirc/Modern for over 20 years, and it's my only choice against e4 now. Way back when I felt I could keep up with the French and Center Counter too, but it seems to much nowadays.

I've got just about every Pirc book I could lay my hands on. Although I've mainly used the Pirc move order, I've now switched to the Modern (ie g6/d6/Bg7 first) but often Nf6 follows. This takes a lot of the sting out of the Bg5 system which I have had problems against, and also allows some more options like the a6 Modern and Hippo (see the book Tiger's Modern) which I've dabbled in and been quite happy. The downside is needing to know the KID, but I'm ok with that.

With what books are around, I would recommend the following to become a fully armed Modern Warrior.

1. Starting Out Pirc/Modern by Gallager. Well past a Starting Out guide IMO. Also he's impartial and shows the problems facing black in this defence. Not enough for a full repetoire though really.

2. Pirc Alert! by Albert/Chernin. Contains a lot of "Marketing" hype to promote the Pirc, but behind that I've not seen the ideas/themes/strategies behind the Pirc explained better anywhere else. Also I don't agree with all the repetoire choices in there, but that's easily fixed and it's enough to start off with.

3. The Ultimate Pirc by Nunn/McNab. OK, a bit last century, but so much of it is relevant, it's a very useful reference source (I don't read these sort of books cover to cover!)

4. A decent database. Essential for studying games and developing your repetoire, maybe based on a GM who's a regular and current Pirc practitioner.

5. Chesspublishing.com ... Of course Wink

You can add other books in later to taste and expand your options, like Tiger's a6 Modern, or books on c6 Moderns or Gurgenidze systems (I have Norwood's Winning with the Modern) or the Czech variation. Also The Explosive Repetoire book offers a d4 d6 reptoire which is a great move order for a Modern/KIA player.

One further point, the Carpathian Warrior book mentioned earlier is written for White and the variations offered are somewhat offbeat involving early a3 or early g4.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #12 - 02/21/06 at 07:42:19
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Little story: few years ago i bought Pirc Defence by Videki. In reality include nearly only new game, for readers are included without full understading Pirc and without autor's own investigation. But in Austrian attack include one sharp variation, which ended in a draw. I was surprised - only one /maybe little more, but.../ own analysis for all book, but very interesting. I cannot found this line in other souce /books, magazines,my not a small database/. I started analyze this line, i found big hole. Big, big, big Smiley. Few monhts later a bought older book - Ultimate Pirc by Nunn&McNab. What i was surprised - here was identical line, with the same bad evalution /in reality opposite - Videki include identical same line/. Which line? McNab, can i share? Smiley. Maybe this was a trap made by GM Nunn for his opponents? Smiley
OK, here is it: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.f5 gxf5 10.Nh4 fxe4 11.Nxe4 c4 12.Nxf6 Bxf6 13.Rxf6 exf6 14.Bxh7 Kxh7 15.Qh5 Kg8 16.Ng6 or so draw. Everything is OK? No. Primitive 13.Bxh7! Kxh7 14.Qh5 Kg8 15.Rf3+-
Ultimate Pirc is not a bad book. Its maybe older /1998/, but Pirc theory don't change very much since releasing. But material, which is included in Ultimate Pirc i have accesible with more comfort in database, when add value Ultimate Pirc as book is minimal /for me/.

OFWATA in latest volumes include nonsense games, one was blitz played in our pub between my 2 friends, and lot of are from ICC /games from ICC are less or more unpublic, and i have doubts about way what was use for getting him .../.... but still included lot of original work /this is nice from Bezgodov/, but maybe 70-80% novelties are unsound, very often evalution is too optimistic

Will be continue ....(?)
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #11 - 02/20/06 at 23:28:33
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@ g3g6.  Point taken! -- you were absolutely right to twit me. I've replied now to your posts in the other ('Modern') forum ...
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #10 - 02/20/06 at 19:16:32
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I've been working my way through Pirc Alert by Chernin recently and would rate the book as excellent for those looking to learn a new opening from scratch.  The book is fantastic in teaching the ideas behind the Pirc and I have found it to be one of the most instructive chess books I have read.

The book is relatively light on theory compared to others, such as Ultimate Pirc, but I do feel that I am gaining enough knowledge and understanding from reading the book to play and think for myself, something I had almost forgotten how to do!
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #9 - 02/20/06 at 17:42:25
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Hi Michael! I am still waiting for your response in other forum: "Modern". Then will be a continue our discussion:-). Maybe GM McNab can say more about hole(s) in Ultimate Pirc:-). I don't say, that OFWATA and Ultimate Pirc are bad books - i say, that i don't like it. OFWATA is full fresh ideas, however unsound.
I have bad memory, Keene's books Modern defence and Picr defence are very old /1972 or so/, but one of the best, what i ever read.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #8 - 02/20/06 at 12:49:27
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[quote]Opening for White According to Anand Volume 3+4 and Ultimate Pirc are full variations, but i don;t like it, evalutions in some positions are not OK.[/quote]

I'd be interested to know which positions.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #7 - 02/20/06 at 11:59:31
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ohhh, my head, i forgot: Videki - Pirc defence, very bad book
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #6 - 02/20/06 at 11:47:49
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- missed Winning with the modern by Dave Norwood.
and new 2 books by Andrew Martin -  THE HIPPOPOTAMUS RISES and Modern defence /this last probably not out/. An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire for Black is more about 1.d4 d6 system /2.c4 e5 or 2.Nf3 Bg4/ than about Pirc /lot of material was presented in Pirc Alert! or The Ultimate Pirc/. I like Tiger's modern and Pirc Alert, and very good is The Modern Defence by Speelman/McDonald. Opening for White According to Anand Volume 3+4 and Ultimate Pirc are full variations, but i don;t like it, evalutions in some positions are not OK. Starting Out: The Pirc/Modern is for newbie in Pirc/Modern and Pirc Defence Chessbase CD is a bad job.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #5 - 02/20/06 at 09:25:56
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #4 - 02/20/06 at 04:56:09
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-Starting Out: The Pirc/Modern by Ghallagher is the best starting book and is excellent even for advanced players looking to take up the Pirc.  It does not contain a lot of material on the Modern, only the Pirc.  You should start with this before you try to play the Modern lines anyway.
-Tiger's Modern is full of original and high quality ideas and is a must buy.
-The Modern Defence by Speelman/McDonald is excellent.  It's another one you should definitely pick up.
-Opening for White According to Anand Volume 4 is great as a repertoire from the White point of view for players who want to play the Austrian attack and don't mind a lot of study.  All of these 'Opening for White According to' books are very detailed, contain good explaination of ideas, and contain plenty of original analysis.  I highly recommend them all.
-Pirc Defence Chessbase CD is another good choice for the basic plans and ideas and well annotated games.
-The Ultimate Pirc by Nunn and McNab is an older book which can be useful sometimes for looking things up after games but does not make a useful teaching tool.
-Pirc Alert! seems to be well liked.  Maybe someone else can comment more on it.
-An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire for Black has some very good reviews on Amazon.  I can't comment on it since I have never looked at it.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #3 - 02/19/06 at 23:06:30
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Speelman wrote a book on the modern recently.
  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #2 - 02/19/06 at 22:58:49
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I've got a copy of Tiger's Modern which covers the Modern Defence with ...a6.  This book is excellent although I have not yet tried out any of the ideas for myself yet.

I see on the BCM website that there is a new book out called Carpathian Warrior by Lalic and Okhotnik which is meant to cover the Pirc and Modern but I don't know much else about the book.  Best wait for some reviews I think.

  
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Re: best book on the modern and pirc?
Reply #1 - 02/19/06 at 20:48:50
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Take a look at jeremysilman.com
  
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best book on the modern and pirc?
02/19/06 at 19:02:37
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Whats the best book on the Modern and pirc systems? Undecided
  
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