ChessPub Forum - Old good Steinitz defence

IsaVulpes

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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #13 - 05/24/18 at 11:55:35

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Pantu wrote on 12/30/06 at 16:03:54:

Well I happen to have Opening for White according to Anand vol 1 by my side as a I read this (back in the day before El Khalif got carried away e.g. the Petroff main lines only took 43 pages Shocked

)

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 exd4 8.Nxd4 Be7 9.Nf5! is the difference e.g.

a) 9...O-O 10.Bg5

Not really a line one meets often or should bother anyone all too much (nor is Bg5 bad, of course), but because I like the move aesthetically:
Instead of 10.Bg5, modern Stockfish after some pondering quite enjoys 10.Bh6!

The only move for Black that doesn't pretty much lose on the spot is 10. ..Ne8, after which he is extremely cramped and all his pieces are sort-of falling over each other, so at that point you just retreat the Bishop again via 11.Bd2 (e3/f4 also probably fine squares) and Black can't really unravel; eg a quick sample line continues

Download game in pgn format

And White's attack is a good deal scarier than Black's queenside counterplay with the comical assortment of pieces on d8-e8-f8-d7-e7.

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an ordinary chessplayer Senior Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 466 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #12 - 02/19/15 at 00:27:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	RE: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3. I thought this line was credited to Nimzowitsch. Alesab wrote on 12/29/06 at 08:37:34: Again, i don't think after 6. Bxc6 bxc6 7. Qd3 Black is forced to play exd4, so, as Black, i would be happy if it would be the best plan for white! Alesab wrote on 01/02/07 at 09:06:30: And what about 7...Qe7! We had a player at the club who took up this line with 7...exd4. A friend and I looked at both 7...Nd7 and 7...Qe7. After 7...Qe7 try: 8.Bg5 h6 9.Bxf6 Qxf6 10.O-O-O Be7 11.dxe5 dxe5 12.Nd5 Qd6 13.Qc3 +-. Of course black can avoid the worst with ...exd4 at some point, but then white gets what he wants.


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Alesab YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 35 Location: Rome, Italy Joined: 11/17/06 Gender:	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #11 - 01/02/07 at 09:06:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	And what about 7...Qe7!


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Pantu Senior Member Online I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 295 Joined: 12/30/06	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #10 - 12/30/06 at 16:03:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well I happen to have Opening for White according to Anand vol 1 by my side as a I read this (back in the day before El Khalif got carried away e.g. the Petroff main lines only took 43 pages ) 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 exd4 8.Nxd4 Be7 9.Nf5! is the difference e.g. a) 9...O-O 10.Bg5 Bd7 11.Nxe7+ Qxe7 12.O-O-O Bc6 13.Qd4 Rfe8 14.f3 += b) (the main line) 9...g6 10.Ng7+!? Kf8 11.Bh6 Kg8 12.Nf5! with some continuing analysis leading to at least += in all variations.


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Alesab YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 35 Location: Rome, Italy Joined: 11/17/06 Gender:	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #9 - 12/29/06 at 08:37:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	yes, of course! Black has to concede centre and space advantage with 7...exd4 to avoid the Tarrasch-Marco trap. but after... 1. e4 e5 2. nf3 nc6 3. bb5 d6 4. d4 bd7 5. nc3 nf6 6. 0-0 be7 7. re1 exd4 8. nxd4 0-0 how can white play??? which is his best plan?? Again, i don't think after 6. Bxc6 bxc6 7. Qd3 Black is forced to play exd4, so, as Black, i would be happy if it would be the best plan for white!


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dsanchez Full Member Offline 24.Nh1!?N Posts: 182 Joined: 01/24/06	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #8 - 12/28/06 at 18:26:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Oops, should have read the previous posts more closely -- Sorry MNb. Looks like I should be associating 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 with Spielmann, not Smyslov.


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dsanchez Full Member Offline 24.Nh1!?N Posts: 182 Joined: 01/24/06	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #7 - 12/28/06 at 18:24:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think I was taught that it can also be played this way, when Black has no better option than to cede the center: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 For some reason I associate this with Smyslov, but I'm not finding any games he had with this position at the moment.


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dsanchez Full Member Offline 24.Nh1!?N Posts: 182 Joined: 01/24/06	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #6 - 12/28/06 at 18:17:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yes -- a model game in the RL. [Event "?"] [Site "Dresden"] [Date "1892.??.??"] [White "Tarrasch,Siegbert"] [Black "Marco,George"] [Round "?"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "C62"] 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. O-O Be7 7. Re1 O-O 8. Bxc6 Bxc6 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. Qxd8 Raxd8 11. Nxe5 Bxe4 12. Nxe4 Nxe4 13. Nd3 f5 14. f3 Bc5+ 15. Nxc5 Nxc5 16. Bg5 Rd5 17. Be7 Re8 18. c4 1-0


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IMJohnCox God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1547 Location: London Joined: 01/28/06 Gender:	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #5 - 12/28/06 at 11:57:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	Isn't 7 Re1 the intro to the Tarrasch Trap, thus supposedly forcing Black to concede the centre with ..exd4?


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Alesab YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 35 Location: Rome, Italy Joined: 11/17/06 Gender:	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #4 - 12/28/06 at 11:11:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	So, which is the main line in the Stainitz defence ?? The Bxc6 - 0-0-0 plan doesn't seem so dangerous. Which is the teorically best plan for white here?


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parisestmagique(Guest) Guest	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #3 - 02/27/06 at 22:07:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks. Mr Mnb for black i prefer 8.Nxd4 Be7 and if 9.Bg5 00 10.000 Bxe4! (sure a fritzy move) and black is fine PS. i tried to register but without success, any advice ? by the way what is the interest ?


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JEH God Member Offline "Football is like Chess, only without the dice." Posts: 1454 Location: Reading Joined: 09/22/05 Gender:	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #2 - 02/27/06 at 18:43:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	The Bxc6 and 0-0-0 plan is also advocated in Gary Lane's "The Ruy Lopez Explained"

	Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10328 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Old good Steinitz defence Reply #1 - 02/27/06 at 01:14:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	It looks like you have checked the wrong GM's. Take for instance my hero: 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 exd4 8.Nxd4 Bd7 9.Bg5 Be7 10.o-o-o! o-o 11.f4 with a clear advantage; it was a miracle, that Black managed to draw in Spielmann-Maróczy, Göteborg 1920. PS as a regular poster, why don't you register?

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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parisest magique(Guest) Guest	Old good Steinitz defence 02/26/06 at 22:42:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yesterday i played a game with this variation but failed to have anything with white. I checked in my database but received no good advice from GM exemple. For exemple i saw a game Bronstein-Campora 0-1 ... 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nç6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.Nç3 d6 5.d4 Bd7 6.00 Be7 7.Bxç6 BxB 8.Qd3 exd4 9.Nxd4 00 10.Nf5 Bd7 11.NxBe7+ QxN 12.Bg5 Qe5 (New move Qe6 has been played) 13.Qg3 QxQ 14.hxQ Ng4 and it's about equal. Any suggestion ?


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