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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Old good Steinitz defence (Read 10479 times)
IsaVulpes
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #13 - 05/24/18 at 11:55:35
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Pantu wrote on 12/30/06 at 16:03:54:
Well I happen to have Opening for White according to Anand vol 1 by my side as a I read this (back in the day before El Khalif got carried away e.g. the Petroff main lines only took 43 pages Shocked )

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 exd4 8.Nxd4 Be7 9.Nf5! is the difference e.g.

a) 9...O-O 10.Bg5

Not really a line one meets often or should bother anyone all too much (nor is Bg5 bad, of course), but because I like the move aesthetically:
Instead of 10.Bg5, modern Stockfish after some pondering quite enjoys 10.Bh6!

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The only move for Black that doesn't pretty much lose on the spot is 10. ..Ne8, after which he is extremely cramped and all his pieces are sort-of falling over each other, so at that point you just retreat the Bishop again via 11.Bd2 (e3/f4 also probably fine squares) and Black can't really unravel; eg a quick sample line continues



And White's attack is a good deal scarier than Black's queenside counterplay with the comical assortment of pieces on d8-e8-f8-d7-e7.
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #12 - 02/19/15 at 00:27:45
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RE: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3.

I thought this line was credited to Nimzowitsch.

Alesab wrote on 12/29/06 at 08:37:34:
Again, i don't think after 6. Bxc6 bxc6 7. Qd3 Black is forced to play exd4, so, as Black, i would be happy if it would be the best plan for white!


Alesab wrote on 01/02/07 at 09:06:30:
And what about 7...Qe7!


We had a player at the club who took up this line with 7...exd4. A friend and I looked at both 7...Nd7 and 7...Qe7. After 7...Qe7 try: 8.Bg5 h6 9.Bxf6 Qxf6 10.O-O-O Be7 11.dxe5 dxe5 12.Nd5 Qd6 13.Qc3 +-. Of course black can avoid the worst with ...exd4 at some point, but then white gets what he wants.
  
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Alesab
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #11 - 01/02/07 at 09:06:30
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And what about 7...Qe7!
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #10 - 12/30/06 at 16:03:54
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Well I happen to have Opening for White according to Anand vol 1 by my side as a I read this (back in the day before El Khalif got carried away e.g. the Petroff main lines only took 43 pages Shocked )

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 exd4 8.Nxd4 Be7 9.Nf5! is the difference e.g.

a) 9...O-O 10.Bg5 Bd7 11.Nxe7+ Qxe7 12.O-O-O Bc6 13.Qd4 Rfe8 14.f3 +=

b) (the main line) 9...g6 10.Ng7+!? Kf8 11.Bh6 Kg8 12.Nf5! with some continuing analysis leading to at least += in all variations.
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #9 - 12/29/06 at 08:37:34
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yes, of course! Black has to concede centre and space advantage with 7...exd4
to avoid the Tarrasch-Marco trap.

but after...

1. e4 e5 2. nf3 nc6 3. bb5 d6 4. d4 bd7 5. nc3 nf6 6. 0-0 be7 7. re1 exd4 8. nxd4 0-0

how can white play??? which is his best plan??


Again, i don't think after 6. Bxc6 bxc6 7. Qd3 Black is forced to play exd4, so, as Black,
i would be happy if it would be the best plan for white!
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #8 - 12/28/06 at 18:26:38
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Oops, should have read the previous posts more closely -- Sorry MNb.  Looks like I should be associating 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 with Spielmann, not Smyslov.
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #7 - 12/28/06 at 18:24:17
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I *think* I was taught that it can also be played this way, when Black has no better option than to cede the center:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3
Nf6 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3

For some reason I associate this with Smyslov, but I'm not finding any games he had with this position at the moment.
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #6 - 12/28/06 at 18:17:46
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Yes -- a model game in the RL.

[Event "?"]
[Site "Dresden"]
[Date "1892.??.??"]
[White "Tarrasch,Siegbert"]
[Black "Marco,George"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C62"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3
Nf6 6. O-O Be7 7. Re1 O-O 8. Bxc6 Bxc6 9. dxe5
dxe5 10. Qxd8 Raxd8 11. Nxe5 Bxe4 12. Nxe4 Nxe4 13. Nd3
f5 14. f3 Bc5+ 15. Nxc5 Nxc5 16. Bg5 Rd5 17. Be7
Re8 18. c4 1-0

  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #5 - 12/28/06 at 11:57:12
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Isn't 7 Re1 the intro to the Tarrasch Trap, thus supposedly forcing Black to concede the centre with ..exd4?
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #4 - 12/28/06 at 11:11:55
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So, which is the main line in the Stainitz defence ??
The Bxc6 - 0-0-0 plan doesn't seem so dangerous.

Which is the teorically best plan for white here?
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #3 - 02/27/06 at 22:07:09
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Thanks. Mr Mnb for black i prefer 8.Nxd4 Be7 and if 9.Bg5 00 10.000 Bxe4! (sure a fritzy move) and black is fine

PS. i tried to register but without success, any advice ? by the way what is the interest ?
  
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #2 - 02/27/06 at 18:43:04
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The Bxc6 and 0-0-0 plan is also advocated in Gary Lane's "The Ruy Lopez Explained"

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Old good Steinitz defence
Reply #1 - 02/27/06 at 01:14:56
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It looks like you have checked the wrong GM's. Take for instance my hero:
6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Qd3 exd4 8.Nxd4 Bd7 9.Bg5 Be7 10.o-o-o! o-o 11.f4 with a clear advantage; it was a miracle, that Black managed to draw in Spielmann-Marczy, Gteborg 1920.

PS as a regular poster, why don't you register?
  

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parisest magique(Guest)
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Old good Steinitz defence
02/26/06 at 22:42:53
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Yesterday i played a game with this variation but failed to have anything with white. I checked in my database but received no good advice from GM exemple. For exemple i saw a game Bronstein-Campora 0-1 ...

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 N6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.N3 d6 5.d4 Bd7 6.00 Be7 7.Bx6 BxB 8.Qd3 exd4 9.Nxd4 00 10.Nf5 Bd7 11.NxBe7+ QxN 12.Bg5 Qe5 (New move Qe6 has been played) 13.Qg3 QxQ 14.hxQ Ng4 and it's about equal.

Any suggestion ?
  
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