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Normal Topic 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Qa5+ (Read 2856 times)
bckm
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Re: 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Qa5+
Reply #4 - 04/23/06 at 17:04:08
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9.Be3 (+=Fritz8) seems better than 9.c4.  White has two not-insignificant advantages here: better development and he/she can castle.  Black has more center pawns and the two bishops, so it would seem that if Black can develop unmolested, the two bishops could come into play (although I doubt it's an advantage just because; there would have to be something for them to hit).

If we use the same plan as in Andy's line, the analysis could run something like this: 9.Be3 a6 10.Nc3 e5 11.Nf3, and b6 is not possible, and Fritz considers this position better for White.  Of course, it's only the 11th move, and White's advantage is hardly monumental, but the d6-pawn will need watching; White can bind the d5-square by 000 (or Rd1), and White may even be able to play against the now-weakened f7 square that Black's king had to abandon to guard c7.  I like White here.

Another possibility for Black (other than 9...a6) is pressuring White's undefended e-pawn while developing with 9...Nf6 (opponent to Bobby Fischer: "But what if I had played differently here?"  Bobby: "You play different, I play different..."); this move makes much more sense to me than 9...a6 (but I don't play the Sicilian for Black, at least not intentionally, so what do I know...  Cheesy).  White would, of course, defend the pawn (since pushing it looks unjustified), and the most  natural way is with 10.Nc3.  Then, ...b6 may make more sense, but Fritz seems determined to play 10...Bd7 (and doesn't follow up with ...Bc6 - those silly machines...).  Also, since Black hasn't played ...e7-e5, the d5 square is not weak (since Black has ...e6 if necessary).  

At this point, I played a "passing" move for White, just to see what Black had if left to his/her own devices.  I played 11.h3, something I thought wouldn't lose, but would be irrelevant...and wouldn't you know, it (along with 11.f3) became Fritz's preferred move!  It doesn't make much sense to me to prevent the black bishop from going to g4, seeing that it was just played to d7, nor does preventing the knight from going to g4 seem logical, except maybe if White planned to castle long (remember, d5 is not weak yet).

In any case, I'm sure most of you have some sort of analysis engine, and you can check this line out for yourselves if you want to.  The main reason for my post is that I do not think 9.c4 is White's best move.

Of course, Black could stay totally out of this mess by playing 1...e6!!, but that's a post for another room...   Cheesy
  
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andy(Guest)
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Re: 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Qa5+
Reply #3 - 03/23/06 at 13:22:32
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A)8.Nbxd4 a6 - I would say that Black has the advantage in this variation. If white ontinues with the idea of restraint (which is kinda strange against two bishops), 9.c4 e5 10.Ne2 Be6 11.b3 Nf6 It looks like whiteis stuck defending while black plays moves like ...Be7; ...0-0; ...Rfc8; ...Rab8

B)8.Nxc7+ Kd8 9.Nxa8 Nxc2+ - Yes. Very clearly better (pays to look twice or at a board before posting)

C)8.Nfxd4 Kd8 (again clearly better) 9.c4 a6 10.Nc3 e5 11.Nf3 b6 12.0-0 Bb7 13.Rfe1 g6 ...not really sure what white can do here, but black has a clear plan in ...Rc8-c5; ...f5;...fxe4 or ...gxf5;...Nf6; probably ...Bg7 and ...0-0 with ...Rd8 before ...d5

That's my idea...
  
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Re: 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Qa5+
Reply #2 - 03/22/06 at 05:41:10
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8.Nbxd4 a6 -- Black is OK -- the central pawns get moving and lines open up for the bishops.

8.Nc7+ Kd8 9.Nxa8 Nxf3+ 10.gxf3 b5 -- Better is 9...Nxc2+ when Black wins a piece.

8.Nfxd4 Rb8 -- now 9.Nxa7 looks to win a pawn, so Black should prefer 8...Kd8 when I think White has all of the chances, especially if he just plays for simple restraint with c4 or something.
  
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fluffy
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Re: 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Qa5+
Reply #1 - 03/22/06 at 05:34:03
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this line is not so good, but it reminds me of a line I have looked at: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6!? 5.e5 Nc6 6.Bb5 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 Qxb5 8.Nxb5 Nxd4. I believe black is fine here. Also 5.Bg5 Nc6 6.Bb5 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 Qxb5 8.Nxb5 Nxd4 9.Nfxd4 Nxe4 and 5.Nc3 a6!? are interesting.
  
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andy(Guest)
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4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Qa5+
03/22/06 at 05:02:59
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I was washing dishes when I thought up this line...

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Bb5 Qa5+ 6.Nc3 (required so that the bishop doesn't just drop) 6...Qxb5! 7.Nxb5 Nxd4.

There are three options:
8.Nbxd4 g6 or a6 might be better.
8.Nc7+ Kd8 9.Nxa8 Nxf3+ 10.gxf3 b5
8.Nfxd4 Rb8

The 2 bishops should rule the game when they get developed.

What do you think?
  
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