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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) QGD Tartakower (Read 15991 times)
Dragan Glas
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #25 - 07/12/06 at 21:18:54
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Greetings,

I've only got six games in my archive, including the Epishin and Bobras, although his opponent's name is given as A. David.  Huh

The games have only two replies to 14. Ne5:

14. ..., Bxe5; - White won 2 and drew 1
14. ..., dxe5; - White won 1 and drew 2

Sorry, no Black wins.

Kindest regards,

James
  
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slates
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #24 - 07/12/06 at 11:41:21
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I'm afraid I 'stepped away' from chess and this site for a few months and am only gradually finding time to return to it, so my apologies castlerock for not responding to your question/offer to try to help with looking at this line.  My assistance probably wouldn't yield much anyway - I fear I'm unlikely to be able to produce anything that would help Black much..... in fact, since picking up the pieces again (online only) I've been using the Dutch and QGA so forgive me if I have little to offer on the Tartakower for a while! This thread went pretty quiet anyway, by the looks of things....

  
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LeeRoth
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #23 - 05/14/06 at 20:32:19
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The latest seems to be Bobras-Alberto, 14th Monarch Assurance 2005, which continued 14... cxd4 15. exd4 Bxe5 16. dxe5 d4 17. Na4 Qg5 18. Bg4 Qxe5 19. Nxb6 Ra7 20. Rb1 Qd6 21. Na4 Be4 22. Rb2 d3 23. Rd2 Rc7 and was eventually drawn.
  
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Keano
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #22 - 05/11/06 at 15:59:57
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I have not a board in front of me Castlerock and my talent for blindfold chess has diminished over the years, so I´ll look at this line you give whenever I get a chance and get back to you.
  
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castlerock
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #21 - 05/10/06 at 17:46:30
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Onr sample line based on the stem games.

13.Ne5 Qd6 14.Ng4 Be7 15.Bf3 Rc8 16.Na4 Rc7 17.Rc1 Nd7 18.Ne5 Nxe5 19.dxe5 Qxe5 20.Nxb6 Rd8  lrads to absolute equality, imo.

  

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castlerock
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #20 - 05/10/06 at 05:12:39
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At last I managed to look at the critical position after 14.Ne5 for about an hour. I was trying to have conceptual understanding of the position so that I can guide my friend Fridz much better! Hope to do it today. Perhaps Keano and Slates would be interested in helping me? Following are my impressions.

All the games I have given above were decides in white’s favour because of inadequately covered d5 and b6 squares, unsupported b7 Bishop and c-file. Too many problems to handle in one go!

But I think black can be just about fine with 14…Qd6. For example 15.Ng4 Be7 16.Bf3 and the solution needs to include Ra7 to cover b7, Rc8 to cover c file, Nd7 to reinforce b6 and perhaps a4 to avoid Na4 and black should be fine. I’ plan to  analyze concrete lines in this frame work. I would appreciate if someone can give a helping hand. Terribly short of time for chess these days.
  

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fox
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #19 - 04/22/06 at 23:15:57
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I played the QGA for some time so I'm familiar with those pawn structures, but I wanted to play the "real" Tartakover line with hanging pawns, just to get a bit closer to chess history (Karpov-Kasparov matches...). Still there are some differencies here with a classical QGA (the main one being the developpement of a bishop on g5 which means that black can hope for exchanges via the Lasker manoeuvre ; black has won the "fight for the tempo" since white is spending two moves to take the c4 pawn...). The position is in fact more reminiscent of the Karpov nimzo indian. <br><br>Moreover, I usually reach the QGD with a subtle move order 1...e6 (avoiding the Tromp for example), then 2...Nf6, and then only 3...d5. It enables to treat sidelines like the Colle or the London system in a more flexible way (without committing a pawn on d5).
  
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Keano
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #18 - 04/21/06 at 13:00:34
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Its just my personal opinion but if you want to play a move like ...dxc4 (there are cases where it can be good) then why not play the QGA. Now to get back on track and in true rant mode - when will we ever get some Tartakower coverage on the site, and has the computer age destroyed our appreciation for the finer points of this great opening?
  
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slates
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #17 - 04/07/06 at 13:15:37
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I don't have the stats to hand, but seem to remember Sadler's view on this was that it is often too committal for Black, although that's obviously a matter of personal opinion.
  
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #16 - 04/07/06 at 10:09:51
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I prefer 8...dxc4 to 8...Bb7, which leads to a pawn structure that I dislike as black. What do you think about this alternative ? Do you have comparative statistics about black's score in both lines ?
  
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castlerock
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #15 - 04/07/06 at 04:32:08
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Not really. But my one hour with it did not yield anything. Didn’t get time last weekend.

Hard to believe Kramnik would not have analyzed 14.Ne5, when his pet line is 12…a5.
  

CastleRock
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Keano
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #14 - 04/06/06 at 10:42:34
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well castlerock...did you give up yet  Smiley
  
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #13 - 04/05/06 at 14:21:58
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Yes I agree - Black must look to improve earlier in this line or else suffer a bit
  
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Keano
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #12 - 03/30/06 at 15:57:13
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good luck! I think I only seriously looked at the line involving ...Bxe5, pushing the d-pawn, with ...Qg5 coming, Vaganian drew that way but I was far from convinced! I assumed if the Knight was left alone (with 14...Qd6 or 14...Re8 as you suggest) then f4 would come from White, which is committal but in that particular position it looked awkward for Black to deal with.
  
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castlerock
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Re: QGD Tartakower
Reply #11 - 03/30/06 at 15:14:03
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Keano wrote on 03/30/06 at 13:40:58:
it is unlikely an opening like the Tartakower will be refuted after all...


That's last of worries. My non 1.e4 defense revolves arround Tartakower. When you thought something is very sturdy and when you foolishly think, in fact, you may know something in chess, something like 14.Ne5 crops up and brings you down to earth. You feel ashamed, you didn't even know the move earlier! It's fascinating and at the moment I refuse to believe 14...Qd6 or 14...Re8 (as against the earlier move alternatives you suggest) cannot be a viable alternative and am willing to spend a couple of weekends over it!
  

CastleRock
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