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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.Sxe5 (Read 7857 times)
alumbrado
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #16 - 04/19/06 at 12:00:01
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This recent win by GM Danny Gormally may be of interest, although White's play looks somewhat less than critical.

[Event "Coulsdon Easter International"]
[Site "Coulsdon"]
[Date "2006.04.09"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Rudd, Jack"]
[Black "Gormally, Daniel"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2299"]
[BlackElo "2554"]
[ECO "B50"]
[PlyCount "102"]
[EventDate "2006.04.09"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 dxe5 5. Nxe5 e6 6. g3 Nbd7 7. Nc4 Be7 8. Bg2 O-O 9. O-O Nb6 10.d3 Nfd5 11. Ne4 Qc7 12. Qe2 Bd7 13. b3 Nxc4 14.dxc4 Nb4 15. Bf4 e5 16. Be3 b6 17. Nc3 Rae8 18. a3 Nc6 19. Nd5 Qc8 20. Rad1 Bd8 21. c3 Bg4 22. f3 Bh5 23. g4 Bg6 24. b4 Nd4 25. Qa2 Ne6 26.a4 f5 27.a5 f4 28. Bc1 bxa5 29. bxc5 Nxc5 30. Ba3 Rf7 31. Rfe1 e4 32. Rd4 Bh4 33.Re2 Nd3 34. c5 Ne1 35. Rxe1 Bxe1 36. fxe4 Qxg4 37. e5 Kh8 38. c6 Qg5 39.Bc1 Bxc3 40. Nxc3 Qxe5 41. Qf2 f3 42. Bf1 Rf6 43. Rc4 Bf7 44. Rc5 Rg6+ 45.Kh1 Qe1 46. Qxf3 Rf6 47. Bf4 Be6 48. c7 Bg4 49. c8=Q Bxf3+ 50.Kg1 Rg6+ 51.Bg3 Qe3# 0-1


  

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MNb
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #15 - 04/19/06 at 02:55:44
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Don't you think Black could have done better than Gutman's 6...Nh6 ?
And Stohl could have played 5...a6 (for the Najdorf player) or 5...e6 (for the Scheveningen player).
It is up to White, to show that he can do without e2-e4.
  

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Strptzr
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #14 - 04/18/06 at 19:03:39
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(My computer seems to have gotten fed up with all this, too)
  

Ligterink-Stohl_1992.pgn ( 0 KB | Downloads )
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Strptzr
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #13 - 04/18/06 at 19:02:43
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[/] as the 'need' for e4 is concerned (Gulko-Gutman).
  

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Strptzr
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #12 - 04/18/06 at 19:01:17
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There was some demand for 2...d6 examples...
I'll leave it to the attentive readers to draw conclusions, especially as fa
  
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IMRichardPalliser
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #11 - 04/17/06 at 10:32:47
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Is 1 Nc3 c5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 g6 such a problem? Maybe 5 g3 is a little awkward though, although I'd have thought Black should be able to equalise.
I quite like 1 Nc3 c5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 g6 when Dunnington's book suggested 5 Be3 (5 Bf4 d6) 5...Bg7 6 Nxc6 bxc6 (6...dxc6 also looks very playable) 7 Bd4 Nf6 8 Ne4, but 8...Qa5+ 9 c3 Qf5 is just very equal as I've had as Black.
On the 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 d6 3 Nc3 Nf6 (surely not '?!' !) 4 e5 dxe5 5 Nxe5 front, 5...a6 as suggested by Ametanoitos is sensible when White may try 6 g3.  I also think that Black's fully OK after 5...e6 6 Bb5+ Nbd7 7 d4 a6!?.
  
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MNb
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #10 - 04/15/06 at 01:55:02
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I don't quite see, why that game Narciso-Vehi Bach, in which Black played e6, and a6, leaving the pawn on d7, should be relevant for someone who has already played 2...d6.
Moreover 6...d5 does not seem justified. So this is simply a biased example.
Better ones are Kuijf-Wojtkiewicz, Wijk aan Zee 1993 and Van Geet-Scheidt, Bad Wildbad 1997. In both games Black played very natural moves, typical for the Sicilian, and almost automatically got a satisfactory game.

Most White players chose to play an early e4 with a simple transposition though. So Black will be happy indeed, even more if White omits e2-e4.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #9 - 04/14/06 at 13:21:33
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Why should they be happy ? They are playing against a  Reti, and this time a viable one (see attached game).
  

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MNb
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #8 - 04/14/06 at 01:50:02
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And make those Black players happy, who practize the Najdorf and Scheveningen: 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 a6.
Such a pity, that White can't play 5.c4 anymore  Cry.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #7 - 04/13/06 at 12:19:20
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Just that line 1 is unlikely to happen : 1.Nc3-players prefer 3.d4 unless there is good reason to switch plans, i.e. if Black plays 2....Nf6.
  
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #6 - 04/13/06 at 11:16:46
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Ok, let me make clear some things:

1>1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.Nxe5 a6 is probably better for black planning Qc7,Bd6 Nd7 etc  (i have won a nice game...)

2>1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Bf4 Bg7?! 6.Ndb5 and 6.Nd5 is not a bit tricky after something like ..Rb8 black can allow the Nc7+ threat and lose the right to castle but then after ..e6 and ...a6 white is way back in development.
  
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #5 - 04/06/06 at 02:38:49
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hwarangdo wrote on 04/05/06 at 07:33:10:
Scholar wrote on 04/05/06 at 01:00:31:
For a dragon player, meeting 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 might be most sensible, since after 3.e4 you have reached a repertoire position (more usually reached after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3).


ok but is it really necessary to play Nc6, d6 also controls the e5 square und what to play after 3. e4 in ur variation, if u play Nf6 it can be attacked by e5 also, so g6 seems to be more adequate ?!

do u think that 3.Nf6 followed by e5 and dxe5 is that bad? or are there any possibilities for black to come into an -at least- dragonish position? how to continue after the forced(?!) pawn exchange on e5?

regards

hwarangdo


There are obviously many routes for Black here; it boils down to which sidelines Black prefers to face.  There's nothing wrong with 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Nc3 Nf6 since 4.e5 dxe5 5.Nxd5 Nbd7 seems OK for Black.  Perhaps I'm not punishing White enough for his deviations -- that would be a fair criticism; but since White can force the positions after 3...Nc6 against a dragon player (by playing the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6), it is worthwhile to know those lines anyway.

1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.e4 d6 is just a transposition of the above.  These lines can be a bit tricky, especially if White continues with stuff like 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 g6 6.Nd5, but ultimately Black is fine.

If you had another move order in mind, I probably didn't understand your comment.  As far as playing 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 d6, I guess it's fine; it just seems less flexible to me (even if the most likely result is transposition).  Against MNb's 3.d4, I'd rather have played 2...Nc6 than 2...d6, especially since I am likely to play 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 d5 anyway.
  
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #4 - 04/05/06 at 19:16:44
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Strictly speaking 1. Nc3, c5 2. Nf3 is not a Sicilian but a Reti, and a bad one at that too : see Warzecha's book on weird Reti's. Of course white can always transpose back to a Sicilian somewhere between move 2 and 10. Elsewhere on this forum you will find that some people do not think highly of this, but once you have found yourself 'doing the splits' (keeping an eye on the Reti on the board and on the possible transposition into a Sicilian simultaneously) you know it can be painful.
But the dragon is quite OK in this respect, as long as you postpone Nf6 a bit...
If you want material to compare :
  

Vedder-VOB.pgn ( 0 KB | Downloads )
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #3 - 04/05/06 at 07:33:10
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Scholar wrote on 04/05/06 at 01:00:31:
For a dragon player, meeting 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 might be most sensible, since after 3.e4 you have reached a repertoire position (more usually reached after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3).


ok but is it really necessary to play Nc6, d6 also controls the e5 square und what to play after 3. e4 in ur variation, if u play Nf6 it can be attacked by e5 also, so g6 seems to be more adequate ?!

do u think that 3.Nf6 followed by e5 and dxe5 is that bad? or are there any possibilities for black to come into an -at least- dragonish position? how to continue after the forced(?!) pawn exchange on e5?

regards

hwarangdo
  
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MNb
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Re: 1.Nc3 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. e4 Nf6?! 4. e5!? dxe5 5.
Reply #2 - 04/05/06 at 02:05:15
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Though 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Bf4 Bg7?! 6.Ndb5 and 6.Nd5 are a bit tricky; Black should play either 5...Nf6 or 5...d6.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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