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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0-0) (Read 8990 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #13 - 07/10/06 at 15:18:56
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Here is yet another Lars Karlsson adventure on the ongoing swedish championship, but this time he didnt play h5 so white got the chance to play Bh6 but Karlsson got a draw.

Both players are Grand Masters.

[Event "Schack-SM 2006"]
[Site "Gothenburg"]
[Date "2006.07.07"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Berg, Emanuel"]
[Black "Karlsson, Lars"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[PlyCount "68"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6. Be3 Nf6 7. Bc4 d6 8. f3
Bd7 9. Qd2 Ne5 10. Bb3 Rc8 11. Bh6 Bxh6 12. Qxh6 Qa5 13. Nde2 Nc4 14. Bxc4 Rxc4
15. O-O-O Qh5 16. Qxh5 Nxh5 17. g4 Nf6 18. h4 Be6 19. Nf4 h5 20. g5 Nd7 21.
Nfd5 Rf8 22. Rhe1 Bxd5 23. Nxd5 f6 24. b3 Rc8 25. gxf6 Nxf6 26. Nxf6+ Rxf6 27.
Rd3 Rc5 28. Kd2 g5 29. hxg5 Rxg5 30. Rh1 Rg2+ 31. Kc3 Rf2 32. Rxh5 R6xf3 33. e5
Rxd3+ 34. Kxd3 dxe5 1/2-1/2

  
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Bragesjo(Guest)
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #12 - 05/12/06 at 09:44:27
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I used notepad to paste the text into a pgn file and  replace a game that hade requred text (event,site,names etc).

Yes a6 is better and black is fine
  
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dragon_x
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #11 - 05/11/06 at 15:56:36
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Quote:
I think that 15 Bd4 (instead of Knight d4) is more critical.
Fritz 9 thinks that white has an advantage, but Fritz sometimes overvalus pawns.


Yes , 15. Bd4 is indeed a very strong move. 
Perhaps we should simply play 13...a6 (and not Be6 which sacrifices the b7-pawn) and then  14...b5 followed by Qa5 and Be6. 

Regs

p.s.: i wonder if you could see the subvariations in my last post , because as i draged the text in my fritz only the mainline was visible...
  
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #10 - 04/30/06 at 16:27:47
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The only Dragon so far in Gausdal is a dragon with the king in the middle. An intresting game where both players made blunders.

[Event "Gausdal"]
[Site "Gausdal"]
[Date "2006.04.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stefan Bromberger"]
[Black "Lars Karlsson"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B75"]
[Annotator "Bragesjö,Tomas"]
[PlyCount "83"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3
g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 Nc6 8. Qd2 Bd7 $5 9. O-O-O $1 h5 $5 10. Bc4 $5 Ne5 11. Bb3
Rc8 12. Bg5 a6 13. Rhe1 Nc4 14. Bxc4 Rxc4 15. b3 Rc5 16. Nd5 Nxd5 (16... Ng8 $5
) 17. exd5 O-O $5 (17... f6 18. Bf4 Rxd5 19. c4 Re5 20. Bxe5 fxe5 {
and black has good compensation but white is never the less better}) 18. Bxe7
Qc7 19. Bxf8 Kxf8 20. Kb1 {perhaps little in accurate} (20. Qe3 Rxd5 21. c3) (
20. Kb2 Rxd5 21. c3) 20... Rxd5 21. Qe3 Kg8 22. Rd3 (22. c3 b5 {
is Fritz preferens}) 22... b5 23. Qd2 a5 24. h3 $5 (24. c3 a4 (24... b4 25. c4
Rc5) 25. b4 Qc4) 24... h4 $5 (24... b4 $5 {
was a better move accordning to Fritz, but white is never the less better} 25.
g4 Qd8 26. Re4 (26. gxh5 Rxh5) 26... Qh4 27. gxh5 Qxh5) 25. Re4 Bf6 {after a fe
w minutes Fritz changed hes mind and thinks that white is only slightly better}
26. Ne2 $2 {
white suddenly makes a mistake and the position is suddenly completly equal}
Rxd3 27. Qxd3 Qc6 $2 {in time trouble black returns the favor!} (27... Bf5 $5
28. Qxb5 Bxe4 29. Qe8+ Kg7 30. Qxe4 Qc5 {and the position is equal}) (27... Qc5
$1 28. Qe3 Qa3 29. Nd4 Qc5 30. c3 d5 {and the position is equal}) 28. Rf4 $2 {
is time trouble white makes a new mistake} (28. Nf4 {and white is better} Qc5
29. Qe3 Qa3 30. Nd3 Kg7 31. Qc1 Qxc1+ 32. Kxc1 d5 33. Re1 b4) 28... Bg5 29. Qd4
a4 $2 {both players are short of time so black decides to attack} (29... Bxf4
30. Qxf4 Qd5 31. Qxh4 Qd1+ 32. Nc1 Bf5 33. Qf2 b4 {adn white is slighly better}
) 30. Rxh4 Bxh4 31. Qxh4 Bf5 (31... a3 $1 {offers more hope}) 32. Qd8+ (32. Nd4
Qb6 33. b4 a3 {and white is better}) 32... Kh7 33. Nd4 Qc3 {a desperate attempt
} 34. Qh4+ Kg8 35. Qd8+ Kh7 36. Nxf5 a3 37. Qh4+ Kg8 38. Qd8+ Kh7 39. Qh4+ Kg8
40. Ne7+ Kf8 41. Kc1 g5 $2 (41... Qe3+ {is better} 42. Kd1 Qg1+ 43. Kd2 Qxg2+
44. Kc3 Qxf3+ 45. Kb4 Qe3 {but white should win in any case}) 42. Qe4 $1 1-0

  
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Bragesjo(Guest)
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #9 - 04/19/06 at 09:23:25
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I think that 15 Bd4 (instead of Knight d4) is more critical.
Fritz 9 thinks that white has an advantage, but Fritz sometimes overvalus pawns.
  
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dragon_x
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10. Nd5!?
Reply #8 - 04/18/06 at 17:20:05
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Yes 10.Nd5 looks very dangerous ,but I think black still has good chances

I will just post some very quick (perhaps inaccurate) analysis that I made with my Fritz


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3
Bg7 7. f3 Nc6 8. Qd2 Bd7 9. O-O-O h5 10. Nd5 Rc8 (10... Nxd5 11. exd5 Ne5 12.
h3 Rc8 13. b3!) 11. Kb1 (11. Bg5 $4 Nxd5 12. Nxc6 Qb6 13. Nd4 Nb4 $17) (11. Nb5
{threatening  Nxe7 } Nxd5 (11... O-O 12. Bg5 Nxd5 13. exd5 Nb8 $5 (13...
Na5 $6 14. c3 Qb6 15. Be3 Qa6 $1 16. Na3 b5 17. Bd4 Nb7 18. Bxg7 Kxg7 19. Qd4+
Kg8 20. g4 hxg4 21. fxg4 $14) (13... Ne5 14. Nxd6 Nxf3 15. gxf3 Qb6 16. Nb5
Bxb5 17. Bxb5 Qxb5 18. c3 $14) 14. Nxd6 Qb6 $19) 12. exd5 Ne5 13. f4 Nc4 14.
Bxc4 Rxc4 15. Bd4 Bxd4 16. Nxd4 Ra4 17. Kb1 Qa5 18. Qxa5 Rxa5 $11) (11. Nxf6+
Bxf6 12. Nxc6 bxc6 13. Bc4 Qc7 14. Bd4 Bxd4 15. Qxd4 O-O 16. Qe3 (16. g4 hxg4
17. fxg4 Rb8 18. h3 Qa5 $13) 16... Kh7 17. e5 d5 18. Bd3 Rb8 $13) 11... Ne5 12.
Nb5 {threatiening Nxe7} Nxd5 13. Qxd5 (13. exd5 a6 $132) 13... Be6 14. Qxb7 O-O
15. Nd4 Bc4 $44 16. -- Rb8 17. Qxa7 Ra8 18. Qb7 Qa5 $19 *

This is (i suppose) .pgn-format. You can just copy this text into your Fritz [Ctrl+C ---> Fritz --->Ctrl+V]
If it doesn't work ,I'll post it as a normal text  later on. Wink



dragon_x
  
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #7 - 04/16/06 at 12:12:04
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That seems to be correct.

Mårdell - Karlsson and De Fermian - Karlsson  both went:
 
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5 10.Bc4

Black won both games.  However, 10.Nd5 looks good for white (10…O-O 11.Kb1 Rc8 12.Nb5; 10…Nxd5 11.ed5 Ne5 12.h3 Rc8 13.b3)
  
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Bragesjo(Guest)
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #6 - 04/16/06 at 10:29:51
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If you meant 9 g4 Rc8 10 h4 h5 11 gxh5 Nxh5 12 Rg1 then Fritz 9 asses the position as slightly better for black, but that is Fritz....
You can not trust computers assesments of all lines.

First Fritz suggested after 12 Rg1 the reply Qb6 but after a few minutes is realices that black then only gets an academic advantage (-0.11) soo instead after 12 Rg1 simply Nxd4 13 Bxd4 Bh6 14 Be3 (else black simply plays e5 eg Qf2 e5 Bxa7 Rcx3 -+) Bxe3 15 Qxe3 Qb6 15 Qxb6 axb6 and black is better (-0,56) 

But if you meant the Tiviakov game and gxh5 istead of g5 (Fritz actuelly asses g5 Nh7 as better for white) then Fritz thinks completly equal (-0,05)


  
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #5 - 04/15/06 at 21:06:11
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"Blacks idea in this type of position is to often to play h5 against h4 meeting g5 with Nh7 - f8 - d7"

But what if, after 10...Rc8 11.h4 h5 white continues 12.gh5 Nxh5 13.Rg1?  This looks very nice for white.
  
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #4 - 04/15/06 at 19:38:36
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Quote:
So, if the idea of 8...Bd7 is to stop white from playing g4 (which it doesn't), then why should white be so agreeable by playing 
9.O-O-O?  Just play 9.g4 and watch black squirm.


In Martins book he says that this will probably transpose to Garcia - Tiviakov if black plays Rc8.

Blacks idea in this type of position is to often to play h5 against h4 meeting g5 with Nh7 - f8 - d7

When I analysed these kind of positions with Fritz 9 white only has a slight advantage. Blacks plan i often to lure white to advance his pawns and place a Knight on e5. The idea of delaying castling is to only castle when whites most dangerous options are removed. 

But I believe that if White plays the most accurate moves he should have a advantage in these type of positions. Some times the Knight should stay on c6 and sometimes a6-b5 is a weakness and not an attacking move. When I faced a low rated person on the Internet head simply played Bh6 at somepoint and i was forced to take on h6 och then sacrife on c3 in a position when my kings still in the centre and with only the Queen taking part of the attack meaning that white was winning but made a mistake an retreated his Queen so I got the chance to castle and got a good game.
  
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #3 - 04/14/06 at 22:32:06
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So, if the idea of 8...Bd7 is to stop white from playing g4 (which it doesn't), then why should white be so agreeable by playing 
9.O-O-O?  Just play 9.g4 and watch black squirm.
  
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #2 - 04/14/06 at 10:37:13
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I forgot one recent game, here it comes

[Event "Rilton Cup XXXV"]
[Site "Stockholm"]
[Date "2005.12.27"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Mårdell, Jimmy (SWE)"]
[Black "Karlsson, Lars (SWE)"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B75"]
[PlyCount "112"]
[EventDate "2005.??.??"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 Nc6 8. Qd2
Bd7 9. O-O-O h5 10. Bc4 Rc8 11. Bb3 Ne5 12. h3 Qc7 13. g4 Nc4 14. Bxc4 Qxc4 15.
g5 Nh7 16. Kb1 Nf8 17. Nd5 Ne6 18. b3 Qa6 19. Nxe6 fxe6 20. Bd4 Bxd4 21. Qxd4
Rf8 22. Ne3 e5 23. Qd5 Qc6 24. Rd3 Qxd5 25. Nxd5 Be6 26. c4 Bxd5 27. cxd5 Kd7
28. Rf1 b5 29. Kb2 b4 30. Rf2 Rf4 31. a3 a5 32. axb4 axb4 33. Rf1 Rh4 34. Rh1
Rc7 35. Rh2 Rf4 36. Rh1 {%08DA} Rc3 37. Rxc3 bxc3+ 38. Kxc3 Rxf3+ 39. Kc4 Re3
40. Ra1 Rxe4+ 41. Kb5 Rd4 42. Ra7+ Ke8 43. b4 e4 44. Ra3 Rxd5+ 45. Kc6 Rd3 46.
Ra8+ Kf7 47. b5 e3 48. Ra2 Rc3+ 49. Kd7 Rb3 50. Kc6 Ke6 51. b6 d5 52. b7 d4 53.
Kc5 Ke5 54. Ra7 d3 55. b8=Q+ Rxb8 56. Rxe7+ Kf4 0-1

  
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Re: Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0
Reply #1 - 04/14/06 at 10:27:30
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In Andrew Martins book "Starting out : The Sicilian Dragon" he shows a couple of games with that variation. He actually recommends it for black since he thinks that 0-0 is bad because of 0-0-0 d5 Kb1 when I think that both the queen sacrifice and Rb8 are playable.

The leading expert the king in the middle is GM Tiviakov but there a couple of strong players who plays it regularly. The Swedish GM Lars Karlsson plays it often for instance.

An other Swedish GM who plays it (or played it as a surprise weapon in the highest Swedish league) are Emanuel Berg.

Svenn - Berg Elitserien 0506 round 2
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Bd7 9.Bc4 Rc8 10.Bb3 h5 11.0-0-0 Ne5 12.h3 h4 13.Kb1 Nc4 14.Bxc4 Rxc4 15.Nde2 Rh5 16.Bf2 Qc8 17.Qd3 Be6 18.Nf4 Ra5 19.Nxe6 Qxe6 20.Nd5 Nxd5 21.exd5 Qc8 22.Rhe1 Bxb2 23.Kxb2 Rxc2+ 24.Kb1 Rxf2 0-1

De Fermian - Lars Karlsson (an old game)

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5 10.Bc4 Ne5 11.Bb3 Rc8 12.Bg5 Nc4 13.Qd3 Ne5 14.Qe2 Rxc3 15.bxc3 Qa5 16.Kb1 0-0 17.h3 b5 18.g4 Nc4 19.Bxc4 bxc4 20.Qe3 Rc8 21.gxh5 Qa3 22.Ka1 Rc5 23.Rb1 Rxg5 24.Rb8+ Kh7 25.hxg6+ fxg6 26.Qxg5 Qxc3+ 27.Kb1 Qxd4 28.Rg1 Ng4 0-1

Garcia - Tiviakov 2004
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Bd7 9.0-0-0 Rc8 10.g4 Ne5 11.h4 h5 12.g5 Nh7 13.Be2 0-0 14.Kb1 Re8 15.f4 Ng4 16.Bxg4 Bxg4 17.Rdf1 Nf8 18.Nd5 Nd7 19.f5 e6 20.Nf6+ Nxf6 21.gxf6 Bxf6 22.Bg5 gxf5 23.exf5 e5 24.Ne2 e4 25.Ng3 Bxg5 26.hxg5 e3 27.Qd4 Qc7 28.Qd3 Qc4 29.Nxh5 Bxh5 30.Rxh5 Qxd3 31.cxd3 e2 32.Re1 Rc5 33.f6 Rec8 34.Rhh1 Rc2 35.a4 R8c6 36.Ka2 Rb6 37.Rb1 a5 38.Ka3 Rd2 39.Rhe1 Kh7 40.b3 Rc6 41.Rb2 Rcc2 42.Rxc2 Rxc2 43.b4 Rd2 44.bxa5 Rxd3+ 45.Kb4 Re3 46.Kb5 d5 47.Kc5 Kg6 48.Kxd5 Re6 0-1

  
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dragon_x
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Dragon with 8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!? (delaying 0-0)
04/13/06 at 12:24:11
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I played the dragon for at least 5 years now and i'm quite happy with my results.I've been playing the 9....Nxd4 ,followed by 10....Be6 line (8.Qd2 0-0 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 10. Bxd4 Be6 ) for a long time now but my opponents begin to prepare against that variation and my results are becomig worse and worse.
That's very unpleasant for me and therefore i'm looking for some new ideas and untypical variations...
My latest "discovery" was  8....Bd7 9.0-0-0 h5?!?  Shocked

[1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 Nc6
8. Qd2 Bd7 9. O-O-O h5 !?]

The idea of this line is to stop the typical idea of white (i.e. g4+h4-h5xg6;Bh6 etc.) ,cos
the h6 square is protected by Rh8 & Bg7 ; g4 is not possible due to the h5 pawn . 
Black  delays 0-0 (h5 could be a weakness) and plays Rc8+Ne5-c4(Bxc4,Rxc4) ,followed by Qa5 or Qc7 in order to put pressure on c3 and a2 .He  can also advance his queenside pawns at some stage. Later on he can think about casteling and doubling rooks at the c-file.

It seems that white therefore has to attack in the centre (perhaps Be2 &Rae1 ,followed by f4 +e5.

I'm not sure about the evaluation of this line and i hope you can help me Grin 


I would be happy if anyone can find some instructive games or theory in this line.I wasn't able to find any theory about it  Sad

If youre interested i will post some of my own games (,but i'm really not a very strong player ; elo somewhere around 2000)


  
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