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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser (Read 42162 times)
blueguitar322
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Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
Reply #77 - 07/03/07 at 16:30:21
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I'm not sure if Gallagher wrote any articles...

He co-wrote "The Complete Najdorf: Modern Lines" which covers 6 Be3, so spent a lot of time on those lines there. But my comment simply stems from the fact that there's a ton of Gallagher games in that line. I think Palliser says the same thing.

As far as continuations...I think the idea is 11 g4 b4, which Kasparov isn't too keen about although I don't think it's really refuted. Off the top of my head, I don't remember much more than that. Oh - 11...Nbd7 transposes to the very popular line I mentioned above.
  
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Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
Reply #76 - 07/03/07 at 15:33:58
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blueguitar322 wrote on 07/03/07 at 05:31:11:
  • 10...b5 (Gallagher's favorite),


    • Hey Guitarman,

    Which book or article did that come from?? What is the suggested continuations? Am very interested as i'm a huge fan of these b5 breaks.


      
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    blueguitar322
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #75 - 07/03/07 at 05:31:11
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    I was flipping through this book again tonight, continuing on my recent inspiration to further study the English Attack thanks to "Sharpest Sicilian" and Kasparov's new DVD (Najdorf Vol. 3) when I realized: I cannot find any coverage (outisde of a half-sentence comment) of 6 Be3 e5 7 Nb3 Be6 8 f3 Be7 9 Qd2 O-O 10 O-O-O Nbd7 11 g4 b5 - which is one of the absolutely mainest of main lines! Palliser covers
    • 10...a5 (Danny King's recommendation)
    • 10...b5 (Gallagher's favorite), and 
    • 10...Nbd7 11 g4 Qc7 (given by Vigorito on chesslecture.com and the early castling line preferred by Sammalvuo in "The English Attack", Gambit 2004) 

      but not 
    • 10...Nbd7 11 g4 b5 (given by Kolev in "Sharpest Sicilian" and covered by Kasparov).
    Am I missing something or was there a reason to leave this line out? Not that it takes away much from the book (which overall is excellent, even with this omission) but it was rather curious.
      
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    hennie286
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #74 - 04/05/07 at 09:23:11
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    I have the Book of R.Palliser for 3 months I think, and I must say the plans are very helpful. 

    Although, I prefer repetoire books like The Sharpest Sicilian( I have it 3 weeks), where you have a sytem against all the critical tries of white. 

    The book of Moreno was not my taste because it uses strange recommendations like, Bg5 e6 f4 Qc7. I think its better to stay with the main line Be7 instead of Qc7 or go for the poisened pawn variation (recommendation in The Sharpest sicilian). 

    The easy guide of Korsten is very good altough the lines against Lg5 and Le3 are unsound. Why use a system with Nc6 against Bg5, when the direct e5 gives problems???

    I think that players around 1700 elo must have the Starting out book, to see what black can do against the various systems against white. The easy guide of Korsten is also helpful (except against Bg5 and Be3)

    Then you must also have The sharpest sicilian if you are 1900 and up.

    I use now:
    The sharpest sicilian(most frequent)
    Starting out:Najorf (refreshing the ideas of the systems)
    Anti-Sicilian of Rogozenko (frequently)

    and you are up to date if you have a rating lower than 2300 elo.
    (don't buy older books!)
      
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    MNb
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #73 - 03/28/07 at 20:59:41
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    woofwoof wrote on 03/27/07 at 17:37:47:


    2) 18.e6 Ktdf6 is unclear & no elaboration here. Does Nunn have any suggestions on this?

    3) 16.e6?! Nxg3 17.exf7+ Kxf7 18.Rxe7 Kg8 19.hxg3 Rc8! 20.Ne6 Qe5 -+ as opposed to Nunn (draw)


    2) Nunn gives 18.e6 Ndf6 19.exf7+ Kxf7 20.Ne6 Qd7 21.g4 with some additional moves and "sufficient compensation for the piece." Instead 18...Nc5 led to a draw in Ernst-Kamber, Lugano 1989. Black might deviate from this game with 21...Nxd3+ 22.Rxd3 Rf8 23.Re3 1-0, Thon-Pantaleoni, corr 1986 "- a rather early resignation as 23...Qg7! ~ is possible.

    3) Acc. to Nunn 19...Rc8 20.Bf5 Nf8 21.Rxc7 Rxc7 22.Re1 "gives White good compesantion for the exchange."

    As always with crazy stuff like this: no guarantee!
      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #72 - 03/28/07 at 14:43:57
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    Thanks guys. Guess I have some homework to do now Smiley
      
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    IMRichardPalliser
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #71 - 03/28/07 at 11:06:01
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    So after 6 Bg5 e6 7 f4 Be7 8 Qf3 Qc7 9 0-0-0 Nbd7 10 Bd3 b5 11 Rhe1 Bb7 12 Nd5?! exd5 13 Nf5 Kf8 14 exd5!? Bd8 I must admit that I'm not fully convinced by White's comp, although I'll grant you that it's practically dangerous. After 15 Qg3 Rg8 (15...Nh5!? has also had an outing and certainly turned out fairly well after 16 Qh4 Bxg5 17 Qxg5 Ndf6, but 16 Qe3!? Bxg5 17 fxg5 looks more critical) 16 Nxg7 Rxg7 17 Bh6 Nh5 18 Qe3, Nunn's 18...Kg8! looks promising. I haven't found any annotations by Timman to Timman-Jakobsen (has anyone seen any?), but after 18...Kg8 there have been two email correspondence games. These suggest that the line may possibly be a draw after all! 19 g4 Nhf6 (I also wonder about returning some material with 19...Nxf4!? 20 Qxf4 Ne5 21 Bxg7 Kxg7; Black is then very strong on the dark squares) 20 g5 Nxd5 21 Qh3! Nxf4 22 Re8+ Nf8 23 Rxf8+! Kxf8 24 Bxg7+ Ke8! 25 Re1+ Be7 26 Qxh7 and now perhaps Black needs to try 26...Bd5!? so as to block the e-file from e6, whereas both games have gone 26...Nxd3+ 27 Qxd3 Kd8 28 Rxe7! and it's perpetual after 28...Kxe7 29 Bf6+.
      
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    Hoppers
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #70 - 03/28/07 at 09:36:50
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    Thanks Willempie, that should have read 18...Kg8!
      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #69 - 03/28/07 at 07:25:07
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    Hoppers wrote on 03/27/07 at 18:00:39:
    Willempie - Nunn gives the game Timman-Jacobsen, Helsinki 1972, 14 exd5 Bd8 15 Qg3 Rg8 16 Nxg7 Rxg7 17 Bh6 Nh5 18 Qe3 Rg8 '!' as a big improvement without further comment.  The game itself continued 18...Bf6 19 Qe4 Nxf4 20 Qxf4 Bxd5 21 Bf5 unclear.

    woofwoof - 12...Nxd5 is described as a possible alternative by Nunn, who then gives over a page of analysis.  His comment was that 12...exd5 is best if black is playing to win.


    Thanks! Are you sure about move 18? I am without board atm, but I think that rook is pinned.
      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #68 - 03/27/07 at 18:23:05
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    Another 12.Qg3 line wld be 12...b4 13.Nd5! exd5 14.exd5 Kd8 15.Nc6! Bxc6 16.dxc6 Qxc6 17 Bxf6 Nxf6 18.Qxg7 Re8 19.Qxf7 with compensation for the material. 

    @hoppers- thanks for the info.
      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #67 - 03/27/07 at 18:00:39
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    Willempie - Nunn gives the game Timman-Jacobsen, Helsinki 1972, 14 exd5 Bd8 15 Qg3 Rg8 16 Nxg7 Rxg7 17 Bh6 Nh5 18 Qe3 Rg8 '!' as a big improvement without further comment.  The game itself continued 18...Bf6 19 Qe4 Nxf4 20 Qxf4 Bxd5 21 Bf5 unclear.

    woofwoof - 12...Nxd5 is described as a possible alternative by Nunn, who then gives over a page of analysis.  His comment was that 12...exd5 is best if black is playing to win.

      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #66 - 03/27/07 at 17:46:36
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    Quote:
    12 Nd5 may well be dubious for reasons alluded to by MNb: 12...exd5 13 Nf5 Kf8! 14 Qg3 dxe4 15 Bxe4 Bxe4 16 Rxe4 Qc5 and Black seems to be better. Had another look at this last night and failed to find anything for White.


    Thanks for the line. Which game did that line come from? How does 12...Nxd5 compare to exd5?
      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #65 - 03/27/07 at 17:37:47
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    MNb wrote on 03/26/07 at 20:31:19:
    Nunn (1996) writes "it turns out that 12.Qg3 is an improvement over the immediate Nd5. If Black castles queenside, then White has a dangerous sacrifice on b5; therefor Black is almost forced to play 12...b4, when White plays his Nd5 sacrifice with an extra tempo. Unfortunately for White, even this improved version appears inadequate for more than a draw."
    In that Bjorqvist-Svensson game Nunn suggests 18...Ng7 19.e6 Nc5 20.exf7+ Kxf7 21.Rf1+ Kg8 "and it is hard to believe that White has enough for the piece." In the margin I have added 22.Kb1 Re8 23.Qf6 Qe7 24.Qb6 Nge7 25.Rde1 Qc7.
    18.e6 (iso 18.g4) Nc5 and 16.e6 (iso 16.Qh4) both draw according to Nunn.


    Thanks very much for the info, MNb.

    The line Nunn suggests to the Bjorqvist game is taken from Weigel-Hauernherm - 14th West German Junior Corres Ch 1974/77. Dont know where black went wrong after move 21 cos he eventually lost.

    Just to compare notes, according to RHM Survey:
    1) 18...Ng7 is given a (?) & recommends 18...h6!. Possible continuation might be 19.Qe3 Ng7 20.e6 0-0-0 21.exd7+ Rxd7 =

    2) 18.e6 Ktdf6 is unclear & no elaboration here. Does Nunn have any suggestions on this?

    3) 16.e6?! Nxg3 17.exf7+ Kxf7 18.Rxe7 Kg8 19.hxg3 Rc8! 20.Ne6 Qe5 -+ as opposed to Nunn (draw)

    Quote:
    Maybe Woofwoof's decision to abandon this is too early?


    Oh I dunno! It does look on 1st impressions like black has to survive quite a violent storm to get a draw.  Seems like everything works out to a draw w/o any errors from black!
      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #64 - 03/27/07 at 15:23:06
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    Out of curiosity. Is there anything wrong with Timman's 14.exd5? I think his plan worked out rather well.
      
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    Re: starting out  the najdorf by R Palliser
    Reply #63 - 03/27/07 at 15:11:03
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    Your memory serves you well John!  Nunn gave 16...Qc5 an '!' and concluded that White didn't have enough compensation.  It seems strange that in such a theoretical line, no new ideas have been found in the 12 years since Nunn's work, but I guess that is just the reality of living in the computer era!
      
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