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Glenn Snow
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #9 - 04/29/06 at 18:59:07
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Quote:
Is this the end? Can Frendo finally be cured of his worries?


LOL!  I just now caught that.  I don't know MNb, I think my worries might be terminal.

I haven't looked at it on a board but 4.Nh3 looks interesting.  White does seem to need some kind of useful waiting to see how Black's going to play the position.  But you know how us BDG enthusiasts will try anything.
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #8 - 04/29/06 at 15:20:21
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4.Bg5 might be the best move. MNb gave 4.f3 e5!, 4.Bf4, 4.Bg5(I agree that it might be the best) but there is another 4th move that deserves attention: 4.Nh3!? with the idea of playing something like Bc4 and Nf4. The immediate 4.Bc4 could be responded by e5.
  
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MNb
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #7 - 04/29/06 at 04:22:19
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5.Bb5 Bd7 6.d5 Ne5 7.Nge2 Nf6 looks more ambitious to me.
I don't trust 5.Qh5+ g6 6.Qh4 Qxd4 7.Bb5 Bd7 8.Nge2 Qg7 9.o-o-o h6 10.Be3 e5.

5.d5 Ne5 6.Nh3 Nf6 7.Qd4 and the typical Dutch reply is Nf7 8.o-o-o Bd7.
Instead 6.f3 Nf6 7.fxe4 Nxe4 8.Nxe4 fxe4 transposes to a sideline of the Staunton Gambit: 1.d4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Nc6 5.f3 d5 6.fxe4 Nxe4 7.Nxe4 dxe4 8.d5 Ne5 9.Qd4 Nf7 10.Be3 e6 (e5 11.Qxe4 g6 is also possible according to Kusminich, Schwarz and Taimanov, but 12.Qa4+ looks good) 11.dxe6 (Schwarz suggests 11.Bc4, after which Nd6 is best) Bxe6 12.Qxe4 Qd5 and according to Schwarz Black is better. That might be too optimistic, but White does not have anything indeed.
  
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Sevenviolets
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #6 - 04/28/06 at 12:49:49
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1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 f5 4. Bg5 Nc6 5. d5 Ne5 6. f3 

a) 6. Bb5+ c6!= 
b) 6. Nh3 Nf6 7. Qd4 Neg4 8. Bb5+ Bd7 9. Nf4 c6 10. Be2 Qb6! 11. Qxb6 axb6 12. O-O g6=

6... Nf6 7. fxe4 Nxe4 8. Nxe4 fxe4 9. Qd4 Nf7 10. Be3 e6 11. dxe6 Bxe6=


1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 f5 4. Bg5 Nc6 5. Bb5 a6 6. Bxc6+ bxc6 7. f3 Nf6 8. fxe4
Nxe4 9. Nxe4 fxe4 looks also about even. 


Unclear seems to be 5.Qh4+!? g6 6.Qh4 Qxd4 7.Bb5 followed by Nge2.

5.f3 is strange. 5..Qxd4 6.Nd5 Qxd1+ is also about even. 

  
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Bonsai
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #5 - 04/28/06 at 06:47:32
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4...Nc6 definitely seems promising to me, I didn't find any coverage of it anywhere - Kindermann uses a move order after which it only occurs with the move f3 instead of e4 for white and Nf6 instead of dxe4 for black (i.e. 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5 d5 4.f3 Nc6!), under those circumstances he doesn't even analyze an immediate 5.e4 and definitely wants to play Qd2 first. From my Dutch experience Nc6 is a very typical way of playing this kind of position and hence it must be a good try in this case.
  
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MNb
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #4 - 04/28/06 at 02:35:23
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5.f3 Bg7 (Leisebein chose this once) and I am not convinced of 6.fxe4 Qxd4 7.Qxd4 Bxd4 8.Nd5 Bb6.
But 5.Qd2 looks decent indeed.

At the other hand 4...Nc6 looks fine to me.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Sevenviolets
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #3 - 04/27/06 at 22:10:28
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1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 f5 4. Bg5 g6 5. f3 is completely ok. One thousand miles far from refatutation  Cheesy


And by the way, what´s wrong with 5.Qd2 followed by 0-0-0 plan?
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #2 - 04/27/06 at 20:50:52
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I initially was also very enthusiastic for the Black side with this defence but I too think that White's best is 4.Bg5! with probably sufficient compensation.  Maybe Black's best hope is with the Alchemy analysis you presented in the other thread?
  
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nexirae
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Re: BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
Reply #1 - 04/27/06 at 05:34:07
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I haven't had this variation in years, but last time I checked the critical variation was 4 Bg5!.

But I don't remember too much about it, as it's quite rare.  Anyway, I'm quite filled with work right now - I'll check back to further support my claims later on . . . 

Nex
  
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MNb
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BDG refuted (well, another attempt)
04/27/06 at 04:14:51
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As my painful loss against SevenViolets is more or less forgotten, it is time to open my big mouth again and shout: the BDG is refuted. Combined with the Hübsch Gambit this refutation goes 1.d4 d5 2.e4?! dxe4 3.Nc3 f5!, which also can arise from the Dutch: 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4?! dxe4.
a)4.f3 e5! =+.
b)4.Bf4 Nf6 (c6 and e6 are viable options) 5.f3 e6 (other tries?) 6.fxe4 (6.Bc4 Nd5 -+ Williams) fxe4 7.Bc4 (7.Qd2 Bb4 8.Bc4 Nc6 9.Nge2 Na5 -+) Nc6 8.Nge2 Na5 (Be7 9.o-o Na5 10.Nb5!? unclear) 9.Bb3 (9.Bb5+ c6 10.Ba4 b5 11.Bb3 Nxc3 12.axb3 b4 =+ or 9.Nb5 Bd6 -+) Nxb3 10.axb3 Bd7 11.Ng3 Bc6 12.o-o Benjamin-Malanjuk, Moscow 1987, Bd6 =+.
c)Strange enough Williams does not mention 4.Bg5, but it seems White's best chance:
c1)4...Nc6 5.d5 Ne5 6.Qd4 Nf7 7.Bf4 Nf6 8.Nb5 (has White better?) Nd6 9.Nxa7 Bd7 =+Buckley-Rosen, BCFchT 1998.
c2)4...g6 (the choice of Leisebein, Rumens and Hjartarson) 5.Bc4 Bg7 6.Nge2 Nc6 7.Bb5 Visier Segovia-Castro-Rojas, Costa Brava 1976, Bd7 =+.
Is this the end? Can Frendo finally be cured of his worries?
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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