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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin! (Read 143545 times)
Willempie
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #143 - 05/17/07 at 10:00:33
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/15/07 at 22:39:35:
Antillian wrote on 05/15/07 at 17:14:48:
Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Davies' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines.

I can't help feeling it is more justified in the Spanish as the opening is objectively stronger.
A problem for me personally is that stronger players don't play many of these lesser 1 e4 e5 lines, I normally only face them when there is a substantial rating difference, and where I want to win.

Personally I feel that 1..e5 is the worst move to play against a much weaker opponent. I have quite some draws with it as white against stronger opposition (sometimes due to me being put on board 1). For starters there is the giuco with d3 and stuff from the vienna which is very drawish.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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TalJechin
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #142 - 05/17/07 at 09:52:59
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/16/07 at 22:14:27:
TalJechin wrote on 05/16/07 at 13:31:50:
How come you abandoned the Philidor? (i.e. if you have abandoned it?) Wouldn't an Antoshin or Hanham be perfect against players you need to beat? No forced draws, no boring 4 Knights etc, all pieces still on the board and not much theory either...

I stopped playing it after my book came out, and people started picking it up in bookstalls, then looking at it and finding the best line for White before playing me! One problem is that I don't much like the 1...d6 move order to get the Hanham (because of the ending) and the 'standard' move order allows 4 dxe5, which is a little awkward for Black.
Anyway, nowadays a serious player should change his opening repertoire every now and then to decieve his opponents.


I suppose you don't like giving up the centre with 3...exd4, but isn't there still d6, Nf6, Nbd7 = no ending - or don't you like white's g4 stuff?
I've never understood why GMs write on an opening and then give it up. - Wouldn't the writing process provide extra depth to the understanding of the opening in question, which should be an edge in an era when most players skip thru a few mainlines on their laptops just before the game...

Personally, I have the opposite problem - no one touches their e-pawns on the first move anymore.  Cry
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #141 - 05/16/07 at 22:14:27
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TalJechin wrote on 05/16/07 at 13:31:50:
How come you abandoned the Philidor? (i.e. if you have abandoned it?) Wouldn't an Antoshin or Hanham be perfect against players you need to beat? No forced draws, no boring 4 Knights etc, all pieces still on the board and not much theory either...

I stopped playing it after my book came out, and people started picking it up in bookstalls, then looking at it and finding the best line for White before playing me! One problem is that I don't much like the 1...d6 move order to get the Hanham (because of the ending) and the 'standard' move order allows 4 dxe5, which is a little awkward for Black.
Anyway, nowadays a serious player should change his opening repertoire every now and then to deceive his opponents.

Strategy_Rules wrote on 05/16/07 at 19:57:21:
I heard Marin recommends 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5 for black, does he give any analyses after the critical 4.fxe5 d6 5.exd6 Qxd6 ?

Yes, his mainline involves a sharp piece sac with an unclear assessment at the end.


« Last Edit: 05/17/07 at 10:33:15 by GMTonyKosten »  
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Strategy_Rules
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #140 - 05/16/07 at 19:57:21
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I heard Marin recommends 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5 for black, does he give any analyses after the critical 4.fxe5 d6 5.exd6 Qxd6 ?

  
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TalJechin
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #139 - 05/16/07 at 13:31:50
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/15/07 at 22:39:35:
Antillian wrote on 05/15/07 at 17:14:48:
Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Davies' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines.

I can't help feeling it is more justified in the Spanish as the opening is objectively stronger.
A problem for me personally is that stronger players don't play many of these lesser 1 e4 e5 lines, I normally only face them when there is a substantial rating difference, and where I want to win.


How come you abandoned the Philidor? (i.e. if you have abandoned it?) Wouldn't an Antoshin or Hanham be perfect against players you need to beat? No forced draws, no boring 4 Knights etc, all pieces still on the board and not much theory either...
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #138 - 05/16/07 at 13:20:20
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I had a good look through the Scotch 4 Knights chapter yesterday, which is very good (although once again White can force a draw at the end of the mainline!!) but found it very annoying playing a move and then having to go to another page to read the note, then back to play the next move, then back to read the next note, ... etc. I hope I never see another book with this format in my life! Angry
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #137 - 05/15/07 at 22:39:35
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Antillian wrote on 05/15/07 at 17:14:48:
Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Davies' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines.

I can't help feeling it is more justified in the Spanish as the opening is objectively stronger.
A problem for me personally is that stronger players don't play many of these lesser 1 e4 e5 lines, I normally only face them when there is a substantial rating difference, and where I want to win.
  
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Antillian
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #136 - 05/15/07 at 17:14:48
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Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Daives' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines. And many Pirc repertore books recommend lines against the Austrian Attack that give White the option of a forced draw. The recent "Ruy Lopez" A guide for Black" reccommends as its core defence one that gives White the option of forced repetition. But to be fair, here, at least the authors offer an alternative.  ( And of course all Caro-Kann books give White the option of a draw at will  Grin )

I think the question is as a writer, when you think a line is objectively the best option for Black, how do you go about reccommending another line which you don't believe in.  Undecided

Personally this "problem" has never been a problem for me since I never rely on any repertoire book as a complete solution.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #135 - 05/15/07 at 14:36:07
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/15/07 at 11:26:14:
I was browsing through two lines in the book yesterday and both main recommendations lead to a draw by repetition, although the book is definitely called 'Beating the Open games'!! Undecided
I have the impression that whilst the 'repertoire' is very correct, and solid, many of the lines may only be of use against players with the same ELO or higher where you are happy with a half point.


It is indeed a vexed question on this board, how the prospect of a forced or very likely draw in some line should affect one's choice of system when conducting the black pieces.  There are those who say that it's useless to worry about this; others fret about it quite a bit.  I'll be d---ned if I have the answer.

Forced draws are more troublesome than dead positions, though, since one can always hope for an opponent's error in the latter.  I suppose if I were writing a repertoire book, I would suggest some ways of avoiding any forced draws into which my main variations led.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #134 - 05/15/07 at 11:26:14
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I was browsing through two lines in the book yesterday and both main recommendations lead to a draw by repetition, although the book is definitely called 'Beating the Open games'!! Undecided
I have the impression that whilst the 'repertoire' is very correct, and solid, many of the lines may only be of use against players with the same ELO or higher where you are happy with a half point.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #133 - 05/13/07 at 18:49:48
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I meant having Black "threaten" a Marshall by playing 7...0-0 instead of 7...d6.  I would think that in a theoretical sense that may be the optimal move order, but it's hard for me to imagine that someone writing a (e.g.) Chigorin-based repertoire book would recommend it.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #132 - 05/13/07 at 18:15:07
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I recently got the book and I am not sure yet what to make of the format. Basically, Marin gives some games where he demonstrates the ideas, then he gives the ECO style table with the reccomended moves, followed by footnotes.

I am keeping an open mind as I make my way throught the book - I reserve judgment.

By the way, Klyemeister, what do u mean Marshall move order?
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #131 - 05/13/07 at 15:41:04
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I'll be interested to see what the follow-up volume (which I believe was at the printers' when I checked the publisher's website recently) is like.  I mean, can it really be a 300-page repertoire book on the Chigorin?  I guess it covers e.g. 9. d4 and delayed Bxc6, but still.  Okay, there are lines with d3, 5/6. d4 and the Worrall.  I don't suppose he recommends a Marshall move order, which would presumably bring in more stuff.  At least, I'm wondering about the page allotment.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #130 - 05/13/07 at 15:05:48
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I have just bought the Marin book, and I have to say I am surprised and a little bit disappointed! Sad
The way he has arranged the material is very strange and he gives too much space to lines that he rejects, and bad moves, in an attempt to show what one should avoid. For instance, in the Evans Gambit chapter he discusses 3 moves in some depth, and then devotes only two paragraphs to his favoured 4th move! There then follows an ugly ECO style section which deals solely with this 4th move  (7...Nge7). I would much have preferred to see the space given over to instructive games involving this move, with the alternatives consigned to small notes.
Still, there is obviously a lot of useful information to be gleaned from this, and I shall be bringing it with me to future tournaments!
Regarding 'false friends' I have to admit to employing more and more of these since moving to France a few decades ago, and I even sometimes find myself completely forgetting the English equivalent of a French word!
I do most of the editing on ChessPublishing and I can say that the 'House Style' is to allow any terms (or even misspelt words) if they sound sufficiently 'chessic', i.e. if their meaning would be completely understood by a chess player, or they are in fairly common use amongst chess players.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #129 - 05/02/07 at 00:16:12
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Yeah I just saw it. I have to say I don't like reading two column documents in PDF!
  

"Experience is a dim lamp, which only lights the one who bears it."
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