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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin! (Read 143424 times)
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #158 - 05/19/07 at 19:28:19
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5...Bb4 is not an easier way to equalize. See Johansson's book The Fascinating King's Gambit. I am pretty sure, Marin has not mentioned it, even though I haven't seen his book.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #157 - 05/19/07 at 15:16:56
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ok, 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5 is quite unclear after 4.fxe5, I agree. Maybe 3...exf4 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bb4 is an easier way to equalize. Is this line mentioned in his book, too ?
  
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Antillian
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #156 - 05/19/07 at 12:45:24
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The price difference is considerable. Consider Amazon.com pre-order price of US$17.13 to the QUality Chess price of 23.99 Euro = US$32.39    Shocked Not to mention that it costs an arm and leg to ship to the Caribbean.

This is why i always wait for books to reach Amazon before i buy them. In this case, I just couldn't wait.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #155 - 05/19/07 at 05:26:58
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Antillian wrote on 05/18/07 at 21:26:14:
Markovich wrote on 05/18/07 at 17:43:40:

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.


Markovich,

It does not seem to be available in the US as yet so you won't get it on Amazon.com. Apparetnly, Quality Chess books  take several months before they reach the US.

If you aren't prepared to wait, you can buy it directly from Quality Chess. That is where I got mine.  Of coure the price is in Euros and the shipping will take longer.


I'm not sure it's a US vs Europe thing. It's not available at UK Amazon either. The only ones who seems to have it are specialised chess stores based in Europe like Niggemann and New In Chess. The chess stores are having a hard time competing in price with these on-line general stores. Ari Ziegler is both financial CEO of QC and owns the major chess store in Sweden (Schackbutiken http://www.mamut.com/schackbutiken ). Could it be that they are holding back the book for general stores?
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #154 - 05/19/07 at 01:47:59
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It is available to be pre-ordered at Amazon for $17.13.
  

We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art. &&~ Henry James
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #153 - 05/18/07 at 21:40:29
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I have just been looking at the KG and was surprised to find no mention of the critical 7 Na4 0-0 8 Nxc5 dxc5 9 0-0 Qd6 10 Qd2! which was mentioned by Renet way back in the May 2006 update (http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/1/may06.htm) - which was the reason I gave up playing ...Bc5. A quick look at the bibliography reveals that there is no mention of ChessPublishing.com at all (how is this possible?!) Shocked
Actually there doesn't seem to be any mention of several recent works of importance, either, the John Emms book or the Nigel Davies book, for instance. Undecided
  
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Antillian
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #152 - 05/18/07 at 21:26:14
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Markovich wrote on 05/18/07 at 17:43:40:

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.


Markovich,

It does not seem to be available in the US as yet so you won't get it on Amazon.com. Apparetnly, Quality Chess books  take several months before they reach the US.

If you aren't prepared to wait, you can buy it directly from Quality Chess. That is where I got mine.  Of coure the price is in Euros and the shipping will take longer.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #151 - 05/18/07 at 17:43:40
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Thanks, Geoff.  Since you've convinced me to buy this book, Marin owes you what now -- a dime?  Anyway, thanks for the review.

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.

Probably the reason for putting the Spanish Exchange lines in this book was to create a book approximately equal in size to Marin's Spanish book, or at least, to keep the latter from getting too big.
  

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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #150 - 05/18/07 at 11:42:09
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Antillian wrote on 05/18/07 at 11:14:56:
Then I enter all the moves from the MCO style table into Chess Openings Wizard. (This is one advantage of the table) I then play through the moves and try to follow what is going on based on my own preexisting knowledge and understanding as well as what i picked up for the illustrative game section. Then I use the footnotes to explore the lines more deeply.

Yes, good idea, I was thinking of maybe adding the lines and important notes to the appropriate ChessPub Guide on my portable computer so I could go through them more quickly. There is obviously a lot of good material here, I just need to extract it and put it in a form I can use.
  
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Antillian
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #149 - 05/18/07 at 11:14:56
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I agree somewhat with Geof's sentiments about keeping an open mind about the unusual format. As I mentioned earliar, I am still not sure what to make of it. But I can certainly understand why someone rated some 400+ points higher than me as is GM Kosten would find the format fustrating.

Having said that, I am seeing some advantages to the format. (Btw, I think it is in some ways similar to the format I heard was used in "The Safest Sicilian" i.e quick repertoire followed by detailed repertoire.)

The way I have used the Marin book so far is to first go through the games section which helps me to understand the key ideas. Then I enter all the moves from the MCO style table into Chess Openings Wizard. (This is one advantage of the table) I then play through the moves and try to follow what is going on based on my own preexisting knowledge and understanding as well as what i picked up for the illustrative game section. Then I use the footnotes to explore the lines more deeply.

I am by no means deep into the book yet. So I will see how it goes
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #148 - 05/18/07 at 10:16:36
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Geof_Strayer wrote on 05/18/07 at 07:46:54:
Marin has used the ECO-style format (i.e., ECO-style charts with main lines, footnotes for deviations, and evaluations much as you would find in ECO), but improved on it greatly by including many (and sometimes rather lengthy) textual comments that contain a wealth of insights into the moves and evaluations given.  In fact, the footnotes to the ECO charts are the heart of this book, and they are nothing like the notes in ECO itself.


True, which makes it even more annoying for me as the notes are much longer and spread over even more pages! Sad

Geof_Strayer wrote on 05/18/07 at 07:46:54:
I have encountered only a handful of these "drawing lines" so far, although I have already spent many hours with this book.  In most instance where the repertoire recommendation might fairly be characterized as a "drawing line" a brief inspection of the footnotes will provide reasonable alternatives for Black that avoid the drawing line.


Check out:
7 Bd2 on page 145 if White plays 12 Qb3 repeating. The only alternative given for Black, 10...Nce7, "looks a bit passive".
Scotch 4 Knights p. 190, line 16, note 132. The alternatives given are very risky, close to losing.
Giouco Pianissimo, p.158 (and 160) both key games lead to a repetition.
I have only been scratching the surface so far, but there are some other odd things like the favoured line in the Mieses Variation, p.217, lines 10/11, which is the same as the Kasparov-Timman game given with ...g6 added.
In the Ponziani (why does it say 'The Centre game' at the top of the pages?!) he doesn't consider the obvious (and possibly best) 7 Qf3 Nf6 8 Nxg6 hxg6 9 Be3.

I really don't think it stands comparison with Rogozenko's Sveshnikov Reloaded myself.  
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #147 - 05/18/07 at 09:05:47
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From http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/ May 12: "Mihail Marin’s new book A Spanish Repertoire for Black is on the way: it is being printed today. Together with Beating the Open Games this completes Marin’s repertoire against 1.e4. "
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #146 - 05/18/07 at 08:22:23
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Geof, you don't post here very often, but when you do it's always very informative. Thanks!
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #145 - 05/18/07 at 07:46:54
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I think GM Marin's book is absolutely outstanding, although the approach that Marin employs (both in format and style) is sufficiently unusual that I can understand why some people might find it a bit strange and, as such, also a bit offputting.  

GM Emms' book "Play the Open Games" was excellent for its time (e.g., circa 2000), and set a high standard with respect to the difficult task of providing the basis for a "pre-Ruy" 1.e4 e5 repertoire for Black.  GM Davies' recent recent 1.e4 e5 repertoire book is quite good, and has some interesting repertoire suggestions.  However due to the format (complete games) of Davies' book and its broader coverage (more than half of the book is devoted to Ruy Lopez lines), the 100 pages in Davies' book covering the same general territory as Marin's book simply cannot compare in terms of depth of opening analysis and quantity of commentary with Marin's 287 tightly-packed pages.  (That having been said, I like the complete games format and think it is one of the best ways to introduce yourself to a new opening.)  I also feel that the quailty of analysis in Marin's book, his willingness to wrestle with and try to improve on existing theory, goes somewhat beyond what Davies did (although I thought Davies' book also was a pretty good effort in these respects).

The introductory "historical games/fragments" sections in each theoretical chapter in Marin's book is a little unusual for a repertoire book, and it certainly true that the games/fragments don't always fall strictly within the repertoire.  However, these games/fragments were not necessarily chosen for their current theoretical significance, and Marin's idea of showing the historical evolution of theory in the relevant lines is a very interesting way of illuminating the modern theory presented in detail in his ECO-style charts.  I also think that the analysis Marin provides in these introductory games/fragments is simply superb and provides a lot of insight into the critical ideas for both sides.  Nonetheless, it is certainly true that the bulk of relevant analysis in this book is provided in the ECO-style charts and the footnotes thereto.

Personally, I like the way Marin has used the ECO-style charts.  Marin has used the ECO-style format (i.e., ECO-style charts with main lines, footnotes for deviations, and evaluations much as you would find in ECO), but improved on it greatly by including many (and sometimes rather lengthy) textual comments that contain a wealth of insights into the moves and evaluations given.  In fact, the footnotes to the ECO charts are the heart of this book, and they are nothing like the notes in ECO itself.  I give a few randomly chosen footnotes below to provide some feeling for their style and textual content:

*************************************

footnote 21 on page 68 starts out:  "10...Rh4   Black intends to provoke the following move, in the hope that he wil be able to take advantage of the weakness of the light squares.  In doing so, he has failed to understand that the advance of the g-pawn consolidates the f4-bishop and enables the development of its light-squared colleague...[a game fragment is given, followed by an evaluation of +=]...Black managed to draw without ever coming close to even losing, but White's chances are preferable anyway."

footnote 18 on page 138:  a textless footnote, containing analysis of the critical opening stages of three games from a Marshall-Capablanca thematic match in the Max Lange Attack.

footnote 53 on page 195:  "21 Rad1 Rad8 =+ (Black's advantage in space offers him the better prospects, but White's control over the dark squares makes the position double-edged in a strategic sense.) 22.Qc1 Rxd1 23.Nxd1 (23.Rxd1?! would let Black break the blockade with 23...e3-+) 23...Qa5!? (Black intends to prevent the installation of the knight on e3 as long as possible, but maybe 23...Ba6=+ followed by Bd3 would be more promising) 24.Nc3 Qb4 25.Qd2 Re6 26.a3 Qb6 27.b4 Qa6!? (27...Rd6?! 28.Qf4+=) 28.Qd8+ Kh7 29.Qd7 Qxa3 (29...Qc6!? was recommended by Blatny but it is not clear why Black should be better after 30.Qd4 f5 [30...e3 31.f3] 31.b5) 30.Qxb7 Qxc3 31.Rxe4= 0.5-0.5, Golubev-Malaniuk, Alushta 1994."

footnote 37 on page 222:  "This standard plan is the simplest.  Transferring the knight on e6 starting with 10...Na4 11.Be2 Nc5 is a natural alternative, although it implies some loss of time....[A line is given with several alternatives analyzed, including game cites and evaluations.  The line contains the following two interior comments:  "(The redeployment initiated by this move is more efficident than 16...Bb7 17.Bc3 +=, Grosar-I. Sokolov, Portoroz 1993)" and "(The bishop should be ready to neutralize Black's pressure along the h1-a8 diagonal with Be4 and, eventually, put pressure on the e6-knight by means of a further Bd5.)"]...[A final fragment and evaluation, plus game citation]..."Black's pressure against the enemy queenside offers some compensation for White's activity in the centre."

foonote 4 on page 263:  "Now 16.Nf5 is less effective because after 16...g6 17.Ne3 (17.Ng3 does not really form part of White's plan, because it doesn't let him concentrate his forces around the e5-pawn) the e4-pawn would be permanently hanging.  True, the immediate capture on e4 would be strongly met by Ng4, but a simple move such as 17...Re7 keeps the position under control.  The e3-knight is denied access to both squares from where it could attack the e5-pawn."

*******************************************

In fact, a big majority of the foonotes to the ECO-style charts have textual comments in addtion to (and sometimes in lieu of) moves and evaluations.  I don't think Marin's use of these charts is so strange; I think that the ECO chart and footnotes is a very efficient way to organize moves and comments if you are trying to conserve space and pack in the maximum information into the minimum number of pages, and this is probably why Marin chose to use it.  The main problem I always had with ECO's approach to opening theory was the absence of textual explanations.  That is certainly not a problem with Marin's chosen format.

If you are wedded to a certain kind of format for opening books, this book is probably not for you.  However, if you have an open mind about formats and are willing to try anything that works, you might well find that Marin's format is superior to many of the options.  I find the ECO charts very useful for getting a quick visual fix on the main line variations (one of the best features of the ECO format is its clear and readily comprehensible organization of theory) , while the comprehensive footnotes display many of the best features of more traditionally formatted opening books (variations/evaluations interspersed with useful explanatory text).  Of course, reasonable minds can differ on such things.

Some comments were made about the problems associated with Marin advocating some drawing lines for Black in a repertoire book.  I have encountered only a handful of these "drawing lines" so far, although I have already spent many hours with this book.  In most instance where the repertoire recommendation might fairly be characterized as a "drawing line" a brief inspection of the footnotes will provide reasonable alternatives for Black that avoid the drawing line.  In a few cases where the main repertoire suggestion allows a forced draw that is difficult to avoid (e.g., after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3 Bb6 4.d4 exd4 5.cxd4 Bg4 6.Be3 NF6 7.Nc3, arguably the main line of the 4.c3 variation, Marin recommends 8...Nxe4!? as an equalizing measure; however, after 7.Nxe4 Qe7 8.Qd3 Bf5, White can force a draw with 11.Qb5+ Bd7 12.Qd3 Bf5 13.Qb5+, etc., as show in footnote 31), there are always fairly obvious alternatives (e.g., 8...d5 9.e5 Ne4 10.Bd3 f5!?, a line given by GM Davies, or even 7...d5!?, both of which appear to be fine for Black) that allow Black to avoid the draw if he needs or wants to win.  Marin might have saved the reader a little time by providing alternatives to the drawing lines in every case, but every repertoire book's choices need to be tweaked a bit by the reader to suit the reader's preferences and to avoid perfect predictability, so this is hardly a major criticism.

There are a few obvious omissions in the repertoire.  Some of these omissions have apparently been cured with the PDF file posted at the Quality Chess website.  The omitted lines are generally not particularly critical theoretically speaking (in fact they appear to be relatively minor lines), and the more critical theoretical lines (e.g., Scotch mainlines, Giuoco Piano, Exchange Ruy, Four Knights) are covered very thoroughly, with a substantial amount of original anaysis included.  However, it is fair to say that the proposed repertoire is in some ways incomplete, albeit not in a way that seriously detracts from the usefulness of the book.

There is also one strange inclusion.  For some reason Marin included the Exchange Ruy Lopez in this book, which is counter to the normal procedure of grouping 1.e4 e5 lines into two categories of Ruy and non-Ruy lines.   I am not sure of the reason for this, although Marin does suggest in his introduction to this section that the Exchange Variation is thematically very different from the Closed Ruy, and maybe this is his reason.  In any event, his coverage of the suggested repertoire (after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.0-0 f6 6.d4, Marin recommends 6...Bg4 as his main line) is excellent (193 footnotes to the two-page ECO-style chart, including over 31 pages [!] of footnotes, many of them containing lengthy textual explanations).

As is probably apparent from the above, my perception of this book is extremely positive.  At the end of the day, all formatting issues aside, the proof is in the pudding and the quality and depth of analysis and insightfulness of the explanations in Marin's book appear to be to be unusually good.  If I had to pick one opening book out of the many I have as being objectively best in terms of quality of analysis, orignality, and depth of explanation, it would probably be a close call between this book snd Dorian Rogozenko's Sveshnikov Reloaded.  Although the standards for opening books seem to have risen in recent years (I am old enough to remember the potboilers that were published in the '80s), these two stand out in my mind as being truly outstanding in virtually all material respects.  (No, I have no connection with Quality Chess.  My only communications with them were some disgruntled e-mails from me about a year ago regarding a book that didn't arrive soon enough for my tastes.)

Just my opinion (and an overly long one at that).

            -Geof



  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #144 - 05/17/07 at 10:42:03
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TalJechin wrote on 05/17/07 at 09:52:59:
I've never understood why GMs write on an opening and then give it up. - Wouldn't the writing process provide extra depth to the understanding of the opening in question, which should be an edge in an era when most players skip thru a few mainlines on their laptops just before the game...

Yes, of course, I really knew what I was doing with the Philidor whilst I was writing the book and I continued to play it during the further year or so it took to be typewritten and published. None of my opponents (even very strong ones) really knew how to play as White and I had a fantastic score with it. Once the book came out my results worsened as everyone started playing the better lines against me. This was in the good old pre-ChessBase days, of course.
I still like the opening but I soon get bored with playing one type of position ...! Smiley
  
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