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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin! (Read 162482 times)
MNb
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #68 - 03/23/07 at 20:27:48
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Sounds what? Maybe you should not be a proof reader, Fluffy. See Antillian's post.  Wink
  

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fluffy
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #67 - 03/23/07 at 20:25:33
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"pressurize" definitely has an atmospheric connotation - it is used to describe air, gas, etc. why anyone would not choose "pressure the queenside" is beyond me. "pressurize the queenside" sounds unedumacated.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #66 - 03/23/07 at 19:59:22
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J-dog wrote on 03/23/07 at 18:53:19:
I've been thinking about the pressure/pressurize thing for quite awhile, but I wasn't gonna say anything. However, now that it has been brought it up, I'd like to say that as an American, I thought "pressurize" sounded distinctly wrong, but like Markovich, when I looked it up in the dictionary I was surprised to find it was correct.  Well, mostly.  It seems most definitions of "pressurize" involve some sort of liquid or gas, like atmospheres (like the cabins of airplanes) or in cooking. "Press" also comes into consideration in this conversation.

After some thought, I've come to some conclusions on the subtle connotations/feelings of these words derived from my own experience:

Pressurize sounds:
1.Impersonal/Scientific
2.Localized

Pressure sounds:
1.Personal/Psychological

Press sounds:
1. General/Abstract, covering a wide or total range.

"Before the game my seconds pressured me into playing 9.Nd5 in the Sveshnikov.  After a grueling fight, where I had pressed my opponent continually and methodically on all fronts, he eventually capitulated.  From the get go, I had pressurized the d6 point with my heavy pieces."   

Of course these are just my opinions and somebody else might get a totally different feeling from these words.

On a similar note, in chess books I see the word "commonest" quite often.  It sounds funny to me because my whole life I have used the term "most common" instead.  In fact, I can't recall ever hearing/seeing "commonest" until I picked up a chess book.  I know that both are correct, though.


"Pressurize d6" makes me think of pumping d6 full of compressed air, and I think most Americans would join me in that.  You too, it seems.

  

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J-dog
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #65 - 03/23/07 at 18:53:19
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I've been thinking about the pressure/pressurize thing for quite awhile, but I wasn't gonna say anything. However, now that it has been brought it up, I'd like to say that as an American, I thought "pressurize" sounded distinctly wrong, but like Markovich, when I looked it up in the dictionary I was surprised to find it was correct.  Well, mostly.  It seems most definitions of "pressurize" involve some sort of liquid or gas, like atmospheres (like the cabins of airplanes) or in cooking. "Press" also comes into consideration in this conversation.

After some thought, I've come to some conclusions on the subtle connotations/feelings of these words derived from my own experience:

Pressurize sounds:
1.Impersonal/Scientific
2.Localized

Pressure sounds:
1.Personal/Psychological

Press sounds:
1. General/Abstract, covering a wide or total range.

"Before the game my seconds pressured me into playing 9.Nd5 in the Sveshnikov.  After a grueling fight, where I had pressed my opponent continually and methodically on all fronts, he eventually capitulated.  From the get go, I had pressurized the d6 point with my heavy pieces."   

Of course these are just my opinions and somebody else might get a totally different feeling from these words.

On a similar note, in chess books I see the word "commonest" quite often.  It sounds funny to me because my whole life I have used the term "most common" instead.  In fact, I can't recall ever hearing/seeing "commonest" until I picked up a chess book.  I know that both are correct, though.
  
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Justinhorton
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #64 - 03/23/07 at 18:32:54
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[quote author=IMJohnCox]Actually, Justin, they do employ proofreaders, or at least Everyman do. What they don't have is editors whose forte is writing good English rather than being good chessplayers and knowing how to lay the thing out and so forth. Many chess books (by native speakers, I mean) could do with being translated into English before being published. But it's a small market with small margins..... [/quote]

Well, if Everyman employ proofreaders it certainly doesn't show because they do a damned bad job. Some of what gets published is really very poor indeed. (I shall probably be giving examples in the Streatham and Brixton blog as time goes by.)

As for being a small market with small margins - well, I appreciate that. I've been an author (and hope to be so again) and I am currently a bookseller. I know how little money there is in books. But at the same time, there's no way that the standard of books will improve unless people are prepared to say how bad they often are.


  
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Antillian
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #63 - 03/23/07 at 18:13:51
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Interestedly, the best English speakers are often not the ones whose native language is English. Nordics especially tend to be pretty good. I once knew a guy form Finland whose English was better than any native English speaker.

In fact, many multinational corporations prefer to hire persons whose first tongue is not English even when the setting involves working in English. Part of the justification is that  non-native English speakers tend to use less idioms  and informal words and expressions,  and that helps the communication process.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #62 - 03/23/07 at 18:05:41
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Actually, Justin, they do employ proofreaders, or at least Everyman do. What they don't have is editors whose forte is writing good English rather than being good chessplayers and knowing how to lay the thing out and so forth. Many chess books (by native speakers, I mean) could do with being translated into English before being published. But it's a small market with small margins.....
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #61 - 03/23/07 at 17:50:27
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Willempie wrote on 03/23/07 at 06:31:15:
IMJohnCox wrote on 03/22/07 at 10:37:45:
Justin, I think you're right. I have noticed it by some English author, certainly. But of course one wouldn't expect English GMs to write grammatically. One expects better things of foreigners.

Pig-ignorant question here: after 3...Bc5 4 00 Nf6 5 d4, why isn't that pawn en prise to 5...Bxd4? I always thought the Max Lange started after 3....Nf6 4 d4 exd4 5 00 Bc5. (feel free to refer me to past threads and/or Bilguer's Handbuch; I know nothing of this stuff).

I am guessing it may have something to do with cutting a corner. The Bxd4 is probably a tad better, but the Max Lange is in the repertoire anyway. I would guess that also 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.0-0 d6 (Nf6 is Max Lange again) isnt in for the same reason.

PS isnt Flear an aussie?
PPS Another related question: Why you British chaps always use "pressurize" in the books? Sounds a tad Americanized to my ears. Wink


I've noticed this in English-published chess books and been aggravated by it.

I would have thought that "pressurize" were not used very much by Americans as a substitute for "apply pressure to," but rather that this term were mostly restricted to subjecting contents of a confined space to a pressure greater than atmospheric.  I asked three co-workers here and they all agreed that "pressurize" sounded incorrect in the mere sense of "apply pressure to."  But I notice that that is the second of the definitions given in Webster, so evidently we are all technically wrong.  But this usage of "pressurize" must be rather rare over here.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #60 - 03/23/07 at 17:50:16
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IMJohnCox wrote on 03/23/07 at 17:24:21:
Surely the verb is press, not pressure?

Anyway the answer is that most authors of chess books in the UK have virtually zero actual writing skills, being chessplayers by inclination and authors only by necessity.


I don't mind this: I don't expect Glenn Flear (say) to be able to write fine prose any more than Mr Flear would expect me to be able to hold my own in a grandmaster tournament. What I have a problem with is that publishing houses appear to employ nobody who can turn mangled English into something comprehensible and even pleasant. Or more than that, that they don't actually appear to employ any sort of proof-readers at all, judging by some of the real horrors that end up on the printed page.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #59 - 03/23/07 at 17:32:32
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I would think that the usual expression, at least in the chess sense, is "to put pressure on" etc. (to apply pressure to, to exert pressure against).  But I sort of like "pressurize/pressurise" ...
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #58 - 03/23/07 at 17:24:21
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Surely the verb is press, not pressure?

Anyway the answer is that most authors of chess books in the UK have virtually zero actual writing skills, being chessplayers by inclination and authors only by necessity.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #57 - 03/23/07 at 16:49:15
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Quote:
Why you British chaps always use "pressurize" in the books? Sounds a tad Americanized to my ears.

every american player I know thinks "pressurized" sounds awful, and we think it is some weird british thing. I recently wrote a book, and told my editors to make sure there was no awful "pressurized" in the book!
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #56 - 03/23/07 at 14:40:43
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Willempie wrote on 03/23/07 at 06:31:15:
PS isnt Flear an aussie?


Surely he's from Leicester!
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #55 - 03/23/07 at 13:56:49
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[quote]Why you British chaps always use "pressurize" in the books? Sounds a tad Americanized to my ears. [/quote]

As a professional editor I can only agree with Willempie. Using "pressurize" in the sense of "pressure" in UK English is not wrong, but the additional syllable is worse than redundant. The main reason for its frequency is probably creeping American influence -- not a good enough reason in itself for accepting the usage. (Whether the "-iz" or the "-is" spelling is used is, of course, a wholly separate issue, which has no intrinsic basis in any distinction between US and UK English in that "-iz" spellings are perfectly acceptable in UK English as well, except of course in words like "analyse", "paralyse".)
  
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Willempie
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #54 - 03/23/07 at 06:31:15
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IMJohnCox wrote on 03/22/07 at 10:37:45:
Justin, I think you're right. I have noticed it by some English author, certainly. But of course one wouldn't expect English GMs to write grammatically. One expects better things of foreigners.

Pig-ignorant question here: after 3...Bc5 4 00 Nf6 5 d4, why isn't that pawn en prise to 5...Bxd4? I always thought the Max Lange started after 3....Nf6 4 d4 exd4 5 00 Bc5. (feel free to refer me to past threads and/or Bilguer's Handbuch; I know nothing of this stuff).

I am guessing it may have something to do with cutting a corner. The Bxd4 is probably a tad better, but the Max Lange is in the repertoire anyway. I would guess that also 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.0-0 d6 (Nf6 is Max Lange again) isnt in for the same reason.

PS isnt Flear an aussie?
PPS Another related question: Why you British chaps always use "pressurize" in the books? Sounds a tad Americanized to my ears. Wink
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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