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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin! (Read 131325 times)
JEH
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #278 - 11/05/15 at 15:35:37
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Holbox wrote on 10/05/07 at 10:33:45:
JEH, have you ever tried to play the open games with black seriously? I mean with same effort you make with the Pirc.


I have now  Smiley
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #277 - 01/18/08 at 18:49:12
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Yes, I second TN's motion, and look forward to the next edition!! Smiley
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #276 - 01/18/08 at 18:33:11
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Clearly Mr. Aagard has paid close attention to the points raised in my posts, but I'm disappointed that he chose to cleverly justify his position by not dealing with my points in full, but instead using partial excerpts of these same points to essentially alter their intended meaning.

Anyway lets not harp on that too much, we will wait and see if indeed all the updated, revised and corrected material is provided free of cost to those with the 1st edition. Until then I will suspend further judgement. I do find it curious though, that quite a few posters here have chosen to laud the appearance of this 2nd edition while at the same time not commenting on its timing.          

To the guy that tried to claim that Kaufman's work was more or less just a database dump, I would say that such a view is simply ridiculous to me.  Over time I would say that Kaufman's analysis, strengthened by engines of course, has held up quite well and if I am not mistaken, according to sources, his analysis of the Evans Gambit  seems more convincing than what Marin gives in his more recent book covering the same recommendation.

Looks like this already distended thread isn't about to come to an end any time soon.

I propose that this thread be now locked and a fresh thread started devoted to this new updated, expanded, corrected, revised and more expensive second edition.

Can I have this motion seconded?

Toppy Smiley

  

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Antillian
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #275 - 01/18/08 at 17:37:22
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 01/18/08 at 17:21:03:
 
Well, as a newbie it must be a daunting prospect to troll through the previous 20 pages of this thread....


I seem to recall that some 15 out of the 20 pages had to do with superfluous stuff like the merit of "pressure" vs. "pressurize" and the like  Roll Eyes

At, least to me, it seemed like 15 pages  Angry
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #274 - 01/18/08 at 17:21:03
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pioleiva wrote on 01/18/08 at 16:12:51:
I have to admit that I dont get all the complaints about Marins work.

Well, as a newbie it must be a daunting prospect to troll through the previous 20 pages of this thread, but if you do you will see that there are a lot of problems besides the ones you mention, some poor research and some faulty analysis, for instance. Sad
No book is perfect, but this one does seem to have more than it's fair share of problems.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #273 - 01/18/08 at 16:12:51
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I have to admit that I dont get all the complaints about Marins work. It has its flaws, as every opening book does. But if you compare it honestly to other 1. e4 e5 repertoire books available, it is cearly the best in most aspects:

1. It is the only one that explains ideas and plans thoroughly, far into the middle or sonetimes even the endgame. Neither Emms, nor Kaufman or Davies can even dare to compare to this coverage. For me, a 2200 player, the non-basic explanations were quite helpful. It is not the superficial stuff found in many other works like "and white pressurizes the isolated d pawn".

2. It contains far more original analysis than Emms, Kaufman or Davies. Kaufman basically offers a database print with some few computer suggestions (mainly single lines). Davies is very good when he analyses his own games (fortunately there are quite a lot in his overall recommendable book), but is quite superficial otherwise. Emms also offers quite a lot original analysis, but still much less than Marin does.

3. The theoretical coverage of the covered openings is very detailed. Only Emms can compare to that. On the downside Marin forgets some openings (the Belgrade, the Bishops opening). This is his only serious weakness. On the other hand, the coverage of some openings in Davies and Kaufmans books is more than lousy, too. Especially the Two-Knights and the Glek system are the weak spots in Davies work, and the Worrall is weak too. Kaufmann is in many ways very superficial (as he to cover a little more than just 1.e4 e5).

One problem with Marins book is the unusual format in Informant style. Yes, it requires working with the book, as its not easy to browse through the lines. But just imagine how many pages Marins work had if they inserted some more diagrams....

In my opinion the final verdict is clear. Strangely enough, the other books are highly acclaimed in this forum. Dont get me wrong, they are all very good opening books compared to the bulk of bad books out there. But...the Marin book is clearly the best in the aspects pointed out above.

If someone does not like the repertoire suggestions, well, what can you say? You could do worse than buying Kaufman, Emms or Davies... But thats not a problem of Marins book!
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #272 - 01/18/08 at 10:04:30
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Some more thoughts are rolling through my mind:

Quote:
As my initial post regrettably started this ball rolling

As customers we dont have to excuse, but we have a certain responsibility for the product we buy or want to buy.

Quote:
I like the work from Mr.Marin  very much and I am really interested in the second edition

Me too! But something to add: I bought "Learning from the legends" and "Experts vs Sicilian" - both are the second edition - so perhaps I had the feeling, that the Marin books will sooner or later have a second and improved version anyway which I should wait for. Undecided

Quote:
I can see that irony does not work well on noticeboards. I appologise, I did not intend to offend.

Smiley
About "irony": communication is very complicated (ask my wife  Grin) and irony is something of the most dangerous ways to do it.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #271 - 01/18/08 at 09:33:24
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As my initial post regrettably started this ball rolling, I'd like to make a couple of points.

- Although Agaard didn't mention that I should not pass on the info about the update, I should have checked with him before posting on the forum. For this I apologise.

- I am surprised by some of the very negative comments to the availability of an update. My thoughts about it is basically the same as the ones posted by Christoph63 just above. Although Aagaard makes the odd rash comment, I generally think his arguments are sound and that the actions of QC should be recommended.



  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #270 - 01/18/08 at 09:10:50
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 01/18/08 at 08:00:52:
I can see that irony does not work well on noticeboards. I appologise, I did not intend to offend. However, I fear I will now become boring, which is even worse!

I havent quoted the message in full for space considerations, but I do want to add my $0.02.
With reagards to your point 1 and 2. That sounds entirely reasonable, especially considering many people seem to like version 1 despite the flaws which are adressed now. As to your point 4, I personally very much appreciate it when writers/publishers discuss their products with the (potential) customers. It shows they care about their products and about their customers and it often gives valuable insight into a book before buying (often better than a review, which as has been noted are often flawed). So personally I quite appreciate your participation and it certainly hasnt impacted my image of your books in a negative way.

Lastly and a bit outside this discussion. Almost all 1.e4 e5 books have serious flaws, especially the ones from the black side and the so-called attacking repertoires for white (usually based on some d4 gambit). They often miss transpositions (or entire lines) and usually just repeat other books, where very often the flaws in those analysis are known since the 60s. I am not sure why this is, but my guess is that titled players dont get those lines in their games (unlike us amateurs).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #269 - 01/18/08 at 08:44:13
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Sorry for my english.
I like the work from Mr.Marin  very much and I am really interested in the second edition.
I find it absolute positiv, that they dont reprint the first one but create a new one with included the "truth" which is found out after the first edition.
Thanks, that they give us the chance to download some of the new pages, this is really not the regular behavior for a business companie.

Of course I will think about buying the second edition too, but I am not angry about buying the first edition because my chessunderstanding did profit from this excellent book.

Best regard

Christoph
  

Best wishes!&&&&Christoph
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #268 - 01/18/08 at 08:30:16
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@ Aagaard: Every crisis is a chance - Take this chance! Stay tuned!  Smiley
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #267 - 01/18/08 at 08:00:52
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I can see that irony does not work well on noticeboards. I appologise, I did not intend to offend. However, I fear I will now become boring, which is even worse!

If you have read this thread you will see

1) We always admitted that there were omissions. Most clearly so by provided updates online, as well as having these inserted in the US, where the books had not yet been distributed. The omission was the Belgrade Gambit, (and a 1 line note explaining how the Bishop's Opening is covered by transpositions).

2) We're almost completely sold out of the first edition and have to reprint. According to some here it is an insult to buyers of the first print that we update the second one? (So I speculated that maybe this is why other publishers do not do this? Or to not do the work, maybe?)

3) I had a failed attempt of tongue in cheek saying that we will not waste time doing this in the future, the same people got even more angry.

4) It definitely is my experience that I should have stayed off the noticeboard. If I had said nothing there would have been no personal attacks as well as people saying they would not buy from us in the future. Maybe I have lost sales by answering to people's concerns?

5) About Knut and his initial comment here. He asked me about Beating the Open Games and I told him that we were preparing an update. It is not that it is a big secret. However, I would very much have preferred to announce this on our Website and newsletter (and not on the noticeboard) with the online update which Mihail is preparing, so I got a bit cross with Knut. I think everyone who stopped to think would have understood this!
I did not ask him to remove his message or even consider it.

6) Finally after a few days someone started to wonder what the updates are all about. Well, the 80 pages is not because there are some undiscovered openings not already covered. It is to a small degree a few theoretical fixes. It is the inclusion of the existing updates (in a rewritten form) and then the overwhelming majority is based on Mihail's and others games played AFTER the publication of the first edition. Not an omission by anyone's standard I should hope. We did not request 80 pages. We just asked Mihail to see if there were any small notes he wanted to include. Should we have binned the remaining 78 excellent pages?

7) As the new edition will be 80 pages longer, we have to charge more to cover the obvious extra costs. I hope this is logical to most and that the majority will not see it as hustling.

8) I think the comparison to MEGA DATABASE some came with is not unfair. The product is the most up to date version at the market when sold. This does not mean that the products will not follow the changes in the world.

What really gets to me is this:

This whole discussion has a presupposition that we are out to cheat people and that we are evil (rich???) that milk the customers (yes those words were used).

It compares to this:

There vas a posting some time back. I cannot remember the details well, but the claim was that we delayed the publications of books in the US, by not publishing them at the same time as Everyman. It is true that the books are out about 6 weeks later in the US. This is because they have to get there. What Everyman used to do was to print in the US and release the books later in Europe. Now they print in the UK. If they release the books at the same time, they simply delay them in Europe. We just send the books out when we can, and you can always buy them from Europe if you cannot wait 4-6 weeks.

I must say that the personal criticism of me here has been out of line. I updated a chess book, does that make me a bad person?

I hope that the online updates of the book will be ready in 2-3 weeks on our website, while the new edition will not be available for some months.

People who want to discuss anything with me can find me at jacob@qualitychessbooks.com. I try to reply everyone asap.

Thanks to those who have had a more nuanced opinion, whether agreeing with us or not.

Jacob Aagaard
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #266 - 01/18/08 at 02:41:29
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 01/17/08 at 15:42:51:
Yes, the book has omissions. But many opening books have omissions and are automatically reprinted without complaints.

However, before anyone gets really annoyed, know that you had the book before the new edition was available (and it will be a while still) and that you will get free access to the updates on the website.

I don't own the book(s), but it is clear that omitting the Belgrade is a serious flaw. If this has been corrected, then what is the problem? Owners of the orignal edition have the updates, owners of the improved one don't need them.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #265 - 01/18/08 at 02:24:32
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 01/17/08 at 15:42:51:
But, as we are not out to annoy anyone, this is probably the last time we will listen to the concerns of the readers and react to them by providing corrections, updates and expansions when we reprint.


I think the general tenor of the recent discussion has misinterpreted this point.  I read it as saying: readers of the first edition noted a couple of gaps and author and press have moved quickly to address them.  The thread seems to interpret them as suggesting that the press doesn't care what its customers think.  On the contrary.  Even if there are flaws in the repertoire, I maintain that both these books are excellent and remain highly instructive.  With careful study, Black should be able to enter these lines with confidence and find improvements from the text.

In fact, I would venture, TN, that this is precisely the kind of book you would advocate in light of earlier discussions on the machine-like tendencies of many chess players.  Rather than just giving moves, Marin does an admirable job of identifying and articulating the key themes in each variation.  My initial sense is that the Spanish volume is indeed the superior of the two, but I certainly wouldn't mistake a new edition of the Open Games as an assertion that the first edition wasn't worth the paper it was written on.  There's a lot of excellent material there...
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #264 - 01/18/08 at 02:14:13
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In business there is a maxim that 'the customer is always right' and as absurd as this statement may sound, there is more than a grain of truth in it.

To pretend not to understand or empathise with a purchaser of one of your repertoire books which is updated, expanded and corrected within months of its release, shows an incredible lack of deferrence for your paying customer base. Lets hope that many of the views you expressed here were meant to be taken toungue in cheek.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and with all due respect, the quality of many chess book reviews leave much to be desired. Most of the reviews I have seen on this book didn't even note that they were important ommissions, and that  says to me that many reviewers often skim through the pages superficially and base their final judgments on the reputation of the author rather than the work in front of them.  

Since you have advised that you intend to provide the updated material to purchasers of the 1st edition gratis, I will refrain from elaborating too much on the lack of depth, and by lack of depth I mean the disproportionate amount of space devoted to minor side lines in relation to the critical ones. This failing was particulary noticable in the Kings Gambit Declined repertoire, which I am guessing constitutes a major part of the re-write for the second edition. Hopefully this time around the material provided will be more up to date, thorough and convincing than earlier books covering the same material.

We wait with bated breath.

TN Smiley



  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #263 - 01/17/08 at 21:27:11
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Jacob's rather belligerent style, which is so effective when he is playing chess, might not be so suited to Forums! Wink
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #262 - 01/17/08 at 20:58:01
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Matemax wrote on 01/17/08 at 16:28:43:
Quote:
this is probably the last time we will listen to the concerns of the readers and react to them by providing corrections, updates and expansions when we reprint

Unbelievable! Modern business knows that its all about the customer or shall I say in this case the reader  Shocked

I really appreciated books like "Learn from the legends" and "Experts vs. Sicilian", which I bought - even if they are not perfect (the "Experts" book is a good working basis - but not a solution), I did not expect this. Reading this shocking statement from Aagaard makes me really thinking about NEVER buying any book from them anymore  Angry

What happened to your mission?
"Our central to our mission statement is to improve conditions for writers and readers alike"  (from: http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/about.aspx) Cry


I am sure Aagaard will regret those unfortunate words if he has not already. He obviously overacted to what appears to be an angry vocal minority. One should know to stay off the pitch if you can't handle the short ball.

It is amazing how this thread has managed to conjure up such passion normally reserved for BDG threads and the like. Quality Chess is a very awkward position. Clearly the first edition was flawed. But personally, I happen to own both of the Marin books and I am quite satisfied. But different people expect different things from chess opening books. In spite of its flaws, I would sooner part with my copy of Davies and Emms anyday than my copy of Marin. All opening books have some flaws or deliberate trade-offs. One has to make up one’s own mind whether on balance the benefit of the book to you personally is worth it.

It seems to be that because the holes in the book produced some an extensive discussion on the net, Quality Books decided to produce  a new edition. And they have indicated that they will make the updates available free on the net. Certainly this is highly commendable of Quality Chess. They should be applauded for doing this. But , there is a John Maxwell quotation: "A man must be big enough to admit his mistakes, smart enough to profit from them, and strong enough to correct them."

Quality Chess is strong enough to correct their mistakes in the first edition. It seems like there are smart enough to profit from them too since according to Aagaard, they will be selling the second edition for more than the first one.  Grin  However, they have not been big enough to admit their mistakes, which is where they have fallen down.

Not everyone is like me and feels happy with the first edition. Quality Chess should simply be forthright enough to admit that in spite of the good reviews and good sales, there were genuine flaws.  I manage a business where I deal with dissatisfied customers from time to time and the best way of dealing with those customers is to be forthright. People understand and respond better to this.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #261 - 01/17/08 at 20:26:01
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 01/16/08 at 17:18:56:
I cannot see what the objection is.


Seems one main objection is that the (leaked)info seems to be married to a seemingly belligerent attitude from the publisher.

A second objection is the perception that the playing field is littered with what maybe not all-too-honest missives.

Third objection could be that whatever your intention may have been, the perception that lingers is the unwarranted arrogance/baggage  woven into your defensive position.

Fourth objection is that the books ALREADY had issues of omittance that needed addresssing and the newly emerging mandala from both your own words and the actual product seems to be one that lacks accountability.


So now, Mr. Aagaard, if you choose to keep your eyes closed, I am certain you can continue to keep these objections out of your sight.  OR, you could undertstand that even though you do not personally agree with these objections, that people DO INDEED have them, and that they may indeed be valid.  

Either way, what has happened here is not helping your company, whether you choose to, or are even capable of, seeing it.


~drkodos.


PS: Your THREAT to not keep up with the thread is a childish fabrication at best, and a petulent piss into the wind at worst.  Then again, maybe you actually like the look, since you decide to keep on wearing those micturated-upon pants.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #260 - 01/17/08 at 19:31:36
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Knut S. wrote on 01/13/08 at 14:13:08:
Apparently, the info in the previous version of this post was a big secret (for some reason I was/am not aware), so I have deleted it. Antillan, can you delete your quote in the post below? Probably doesn't help much, but still...


Only just saw this reply. Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag now since Jacob Aagard himself has appeared on the thread.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #259 - 01/17/08 at 17:59:52
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I don't understand all the hub bub. Because Quality Chess is updating the books this means the first two are completely obsolete, terrible, worthless works? How do we know whether all 100 pages are addressing omissions, mistakes etc and not also giving more explanations, strategic ideas and such? And I find it a bit odd for someone to complain about the books when they have not even read them.

The idea is to know the openings inside out, to feel so comfortable in them you find the correct move even if you have forgotten theory, are taken by surprise, or what not. The only serious, glaring errors are when the Belgrade Opening, or bishop's opening are omitted...and that was covered free of charge by QualityChess to correct this mistake.

I think we're nitpicking this issue too much, when we have a really good product on our hands.

These are great opening and middlegame works. I prefer to know the reasons behind each move, or I'll forget endless memorized lines very quickly. For updates, or errors when they are found, there is always Chesspublishing.com  Smiley

-Seth Homa, National Master
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #258 - 01/17/08 at 16:28:43
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Quote:
this is probably the last time we will listen to the concerns of the readers and react to them by providing corrections, updates and expansions when we reprint

Unbelievable! Modern business knows that its all about the customer or shall I say in this case the reader  Shocked

I really appreciated books like "Learn from the legends" and "Experts vs. Sicilian", which I bought - even if they are not perfect (the "Experts" book is a good working basis - but not a solution), I did not expect this. Reading this shocking statement from Aagaard makes me really thinking about NEVER buying any book from them anymore  Angry

What happened to your mission?
"Our central to our mission statement is to improve conditions for writers and readers alike"  (from: http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/about.aspx) Cry
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #257 - 01/17/08 at 15:42:51
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It is still astonishing to me that the knowledge of an upgraded version of a book is seen as changing the value of the already existing edition. I am not out to be offensive, but the logic is not clear to me.

The presupposition that the book was rushed through is strange. Anyone who has looked at it carefully will know that this is not the case. Rather it has been highly praised everywhere.

Yes, the book has omissions. But many opening books have omissions and are automatically reprinted without complaints.

However, before anyone gets really annoyed, know that you had the book before the new edition was available (and it will be a while still) and that you will get free access to the updates on the website.

But, as we are not out to annoy anyone, this is probably the last time we will listen to the concerns of the readers and react to them by providing corrections, updates and expansions when we reprint. Why do the extra effort for no financial gain when it is so unappreciated?

Jacob


  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #256 - 01/17/08 at 13:50:17
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I feel sympathy for Quality Chess here, as the original oversights and omissions are down to the author, and the fact that they are going to such cost and effort to improve the book is to their credit. As Jacob points out, few other publishers bother.
It is a bit annoying for people like myself who bought the first copy, though! Angry

ZCC wrote on 09/24/07 at 20:46:28:
Stefan Kindermann in his book "THE SPANISH EXCHANGE VARIATION - 2005"  suggested as main line a very interesting new idea of Vladimir Baklan :   9.dxe5!?
...

At first impression It seems to me not analyzed in Marin's book... in Megabase 2007 there are 2 games but white scores 100% ...  Cry

I was doing some research into this variation (for my own repertoire) and also noticed that after 9 Nbd2 instead (which Stefan gives as an alternative) 9...0-0 10 Qc2 Marin gives 10...Kh8 11 c4 exd4 12 Nxd4 c5 13 N4b3 b6 "with a comfortable position", but Stefan points out that 11 c4 is dubious and that playing (the fairly obvious) 11 h3! first gives White the advantage!
Woe betide anyone who uses Marin's repertoire against someone who uses Stefan's!! Sad
Incidentally, the Marin note in question is actually a full 30 pages after the original line!! Angry
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #255 - 01/17/08 at 12:59:15
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My sense is that the disagreement can be summarized thusly:

On the one hand, the book is hardly a year old and is receiving a substantial upgrade.  Great news, but maybe the book was hastily run through the publishing process if considerable revisions need to be made so soon.  As I understand the discussion here, these are additions rather than corrections for the most part (like the Belgrade insert).

On the other hand—and speaking from experience—a book is never finished.  There are always additions, corrections, etc., so kudos for deciding to revise.

Frankly, I'm a big fan of the two Marin opening books.  They will disappoint the reader who just wants to know what move to play after move x, but they are incredibly instructive and rewarding to the reader who wants to understand what they are looking at in the openings in question.  Neither book is comprehensive, but I have found myself able to respond intelligently to opponents who make a move out of book, thanks to Marin's descriptive explanations.

I own both books.  I have spent a lot of time with the Spanish volume, and a little less with the Open Games, but have been working my way through it slowly.  Yes, I'm sure there are gaps and opening lines that are missing, but my study leaves me feeling rather well prepared even in lines that aren't in the book.  In all likelihood, I'll probably buy a new edition, but I don't think I really need to in terms of the instruction Marin provides.  And given the number of other volumes out there, not least John Emms's good book, I really don't think owners of the first edition need feel jilted.  If you were looking for a manual that simply showed you what move to play rather than one tried to provide deeper insight into important positions, then the first edition was probably disappointing in the first place (although, even that section's not bad, but I don't understand why everyone seems to have skipped over Marin's text)...
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #254 - 01/17/08 at 08:31:21
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So I dropped in anyway, I guess I got curious.

Beating the Open Games is a great book by anyone's standard. The great reviews of it were not an accident. To say that these book lack in theoretical depth is simply ridiculous. Or to say that I do not care about disgruntled customers.

I remember that Everyman sold the first 5000 copies of the first Kasparov book and that reviewers chopped it to pieces. There were too many mistakes. Kasparov then corrected the manuscript and in all other editions it was longer and better.

In English they just reprinted the first edition. Again and again. Reason: Why work when people buy it anyway.

Maybe we should do the same. In this case our customers would not have to be unhappy that if they had waited 1 year then a better edition might appear. Which by the way will have to be more expensive. And the additions will all be freely available on our website. As is Mihail's update with the Belgrade Gambit, an update we at some cost had inserted in all the books sold in the US, as well as advised our European sellers to include it or make their customers aware of it.

To compare I could criticise those books mentioned, but I think this would be unfair on their authors, who just like Mihail, tried to present something useful to their readers.

Finally, I always answer e-mails on jacob@qualitychessbooks.com. If anyone else has something they want to say about our books, positive or negative, I am always happy to listen. We are a business, but we also care about the quality of our product intensely. Unfortunately this is not always the case with other publishers, which is why I went from writing into publishing in the first place.

So, no, I do not feel guilty about improving our products.

  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #253 - 01/17/08 at 08:08:32
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Hello,

I would just like to comment that the comparison of what is happening with this two book series, and chess stars ones, like the QGA one which is now in third edition, is not really fair. The chess stars ones have the concept of looking at the most upto date ideas possible, where there was always going to be updates. I think there was very reasonable coverage of all lines in these books, for the date published. At my level of play, ~ 2000, it is not really crucial to keep up with the arms race in QGA, so might not buy the third edition. (Will probably anyway because of sort of obsessed with this book).
                    In contrast what is happening with Marin books looks like trying to repair major flaws.

Bye John S
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #252 - 01/17/08 at 07:14:48
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Sorry, but I am now too busy to continue to represent the views of those amongst us who feel disgruntled.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #251 - 01/17/08 at 02:49:34
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Would you rather that he didn't update the book?

The fact that they try to improve their products is a good thing, not a bad one.  If you don't want the updated version, then don't buy it.  You're no worse off than you were before. 



 

  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #250 - 01/17/08 at 01:47:03
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slates wrote on 01/16/08 at 19:56:16:
It's unfortunate that my comments may have been interpreted as unnecessarily harsh - they may not represent the views of others who bought the book (which I do think looks excellent, by the way). I just found myself in agreement with BlkSabb on this one, despite generally enjoying Quality Chess products (such as the San Luis tournament book, which is excellent by anybody's standards) and also after having been impressed by Mr Aagaard's own books in the past, especially the Sveshnikov and first 'Excelling ...' title.  I appreciate that they want to give the best product possible and applaud that philosophy, so will await developments with interest.  
However, it seems unlikely that Jacob will revisit this thread, which is a shame.


Why apologise?

A book on 1...e5 that warrants an update of 100 plus pages so soon after being published, by definition cannot be excellent.

Thankfully I never purchased the previous book, and I am grateful to this forum for guiding me to this decision.

Marin is a strong Grandmaster and acclaimed writer, but in the specialised realm of Opening books he remained largely untested. I think his acclaim in writing about other aspects of the game influenced some of the overly glowing reviews this two part series got.

A clear warning sign that this book had some major problems, was the ommission of the Belgrade Gambit. Granted this gambit is not so popular nowadays, but still it is a rather dangerous line for those not familiar with its nuances. Such a glaring omission was enough to put me off as a buyer, not because I hold the Belgrade in high esteem, I certainly do not, but rather because it pointed to a lack of diligence which I surmised would more than likely manifest itself in other areas of the book.

Moreover, at least three preceeding major repertoire works that covered this 1...e5 material, namely:  Play the Open Ganes as Black by Emms; Play 1e4 e5! by Nigel Davies and The Chess Advantage in Black & White by Larry Kaufman all covered the Belgrade Gambit adequately and in the case of Kaufman and Davies works were all the more impressive as he had to cover not only the non Ruy Lopez lines but the Ruy Lopez as well, a task which they both accomplished admirably. This raises another important question for me, that is, what source materials were cited in the Bibliography.

This next query may seem amusing for some, but I wonder if Marin considered the Halloween Gambit. The Halloween surely lacks the respectibility of some of the more long standing and established Gambits, but yet again this is one not to be dismissed too lightly in a repertoire book aimed primarily at club level players. Of the three repertoire books I mentioned earlier, only Emms book failed to consider the Halloween Gambit, and this may have a bit to do with its  publication date of 2000 which may have been just prior to the rise of this gambit as a dangerous and popular cult weapon particularly in online chess.  

Considering Marin's credentials and the fact that this book only deals with 1...e5 non Ruy Lopez lines, there really is no excuse for glaring omissions or a lack of theoretical depth in the lines considered.

The fact that such a massive updated new edition has appeared or is planned so soon after the first one was released does not surprise me that much. The speed of this  new release could possibly be as a consequence of many letters and emails to the editor from dissatisfied customers.

Regrettably I suspect that those luckless souls who rushed impulsively to pick up the first edition will have to bite the bullet and once again pay full price of admission for the second.

Its a pity that chess books aren't more like motor cars, in that where a serious manufacturers flaw is detected there is usually a mass recall and customers compensated accordingly. In this case, considering the time frame between the first and second editions, it seems only equitable that prior customers should be granted free access to the new updated material, but that's just me.

Lets not blame Mr. Aagaard for being 'too busy' to follow the customer feedback in this thread, after all, why empathise with the feelings of one or two disgruntled customers who feel like they are being milked for all they are worth. I eagerly look forward to the third edition of 1...e5! by Marin with all the updated analysis in a few months, as I am sure there must be loads of repeat customers willing to pay full price yet again for overlapping analysis with a few new ideas tossed into the mix.    

Caveat Emptor my friends, Caveat Emptor.

Toppy Smiley  

 

  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #249 - 01/16/08 at 19:56:16
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It's unfortunate that my comments may have been interpreted as unnecessarily harsh - they may not represent the views of others who bought the book (which I do think looks excellent, by the way). I just found myself in agreement with BlkSabb on this one, despite generally enjoying Quality Chess products (such as the San Luis tournament book, which is excellent by anybody's standards) and also after having been impressed by Mr Aagaard's own books in the past, especially the Sveshnikov and first 'Excelling ...' title.  I appreciate that they want to give the best product possible and applaud that philosophy, so will await developments with interest.  
However, it seems unlikely that Jacob will revisit this thread, which is a shame.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #248 - 01/16/08 at 17:51:18
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I think  Mr. Aagard would be sensible to offer some kind of discount/incentives for those who bought earlier editions if this is the way that he is going especially if the new editions are released relatively

Perhaps the best way to organise a website with these updates in return for some additional charge upfront for them. Perhaps Tony could give him assistance doing this.

  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #247 - 01/16/08 at 17:31:08
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On buying the updated English version of Bronznik's Chigorin book after earlier buying the German edition, my attitude was that I'd rather not spend the money (doh!) but I was still pleased to get an improved version.
I didn't buy the second, expanded version of Nunn's Secrets Of Practical Chess as I didn't think having two versions of such a book was necessary.
But with opening books, I'm pleased to get the chance to spend more money!
After all, it's what I do every year with ChessBase's Mega database.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #246 - 01/16/08 at 17:18:56
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I cannot see what the objection is. If the first edition had not sold out, we would not print a second edition at all. It is cheaper and easier for us to reprint without doing any extra work, which is what the other publishers would do, because it is cost efficient. We care about quality and will continue to do so.

So, the person who bought the first edition should not feel cheated. It is still an amazin book. Only, at some point it makes sense to make the material as up-to-date as when we published the first edition. How does that affect the quality of the first edition. Not at all.

To not buy our books because we continually try to improve the product is a possibility, though I personally would rather prefer to buy books from a publisher that cares about the reader.

For those who want to know what reviewers thought of the first editions, please go to Silman's website.

And yes, we are considering an update on the website, but it will probably be in pgn format.

Jacob Aagaard
(I will not follow the thread. I am too busy, sorry)
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #245 - 01/16/08 at 07:25:38
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It is pretty annoying, I agree.  Admittedly I haven't spent much time with my copy yet (I bought both the Marin books in this 'set') as I was planning to look at it when time allows to broaden my chess horizons as I don't normally play 1...e5, and I'm sure that the theoretical changes won't be nearly as important to me as would any changes to the explanatory text, but nonetheless....does make me wonder if a little more time should be spent before the release of certain titles.  I don't recall Gambit releasing a second edition of any of their titles in such a short space of time after the first, or even at all, and even Everyman (with their other absurd traits such as the lack of a variation index at the end of the book) haven't done this that I can remember.  Perhaps we shouldn't rush to buy these books until they've been out a few months and all the reviews/feedback are in.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #244 - 01/16/08 at 04:38:23
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What are all of these customer who just spent $30 on their book supposed to do about this?  Are they at least releasing the new material in .pdf form?  I'm thinking about not buying any books from them if I have to update them every few months.

I can see why they'd want to keep this a secret.

This is just like the Queen's Gambit Accepted book from Chess Stars that's about to be on the third edition already.  Who is going to keep buying these things again and again?  I feel like I'm getting cheated here.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #243 - 01/13/08 at 17:37:22
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Knut S. wrote on 01/13/08 at 14:13:08:
We were hacked at the start of December and are still fighting with the consequences. We publish a completely new version of beating the Open Games in March with almost 100 new pages as it looks now.

This was (interesting) news to me, but I might not be completely up to date. 


Hmm...a new edition. I wonder if I can trade in my first one.  Undecided
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #242 - 01/13/08 at 14:13:08
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Apparently, the info in the previous version of this post was a big secret (for some reason I was/am not aware), so I have deleted it. Antillan, can you delete your quote in the post below? Probably doesn't help much, but still...
« Last Edit: 01/14/08 at 08:08:05 by Knut S. »  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #241 - 01/12/08 at 16:01:32
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@MNb

Thanks for this.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #240 - 01/11/08 at 22:46:43
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My latest acquired wisdom: it is better to know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about a position that to dimly recall some moves that make your analysis biased towards what you think you remember.

Have a read of Leif's Johanesen (?) preface in his Zaitsev book. Basically he trusted his ability to play logical moves when facing sidelines!


That is very good advice. However, if it were 100% true, then I would never have bought any opening books and probably would not be on this forum  Grin

So in the future, if I'm not absolutely convinced I remember something, I'll "think without prejudice" about the position (to borrow a phrase from Mr GM, Zebra-loving Rowson).
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #239 - 01/11/08 at 01:24:53
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mad_knight wrote on 01/10/08 at 12:35:20:
Hi BlkSabb,
Could you give me some detail on these transpositions so I can look them up in Marin's book?
Thanks a bunch! Smiley


I don't own Marin's book, but there are really not that much transpositions.
3.Nc3 is the Vienna: 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bc4 and I guess it will be 3...Nf6 (2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nf6).
3.Nf3 is the Italian: 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4.
3.d3 Bc5 (Nf6 4.Nc3 is the Vienna again) 4.Nc3 is Vienna, 4.Nf3 is Italian and 4.f4 is just met with ...d5!
A cute transposition is 2.Bc4 Nc6 3.f4 exf4 which is a critical line of the KG: 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nc6!?
All this already to be found in Harding, 1973 ....
Concerning independent options: Fernando Semprun is right. Play normal sound moves.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.0-0 Bc5 5.c3 is nothing special indeed - Nxe4 6.d4 (what else?) exd4 once again transposes. It is handy to know 7.cxd4 d5 (Be7 8.d5!) 8.dxc5 dxc4 9.Qe2 Qd3 10.Re1 f5 though, as ...Bf5 drops a piece.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #238 - 01/10/08 at 22:05:32
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/06/08 at 01:06:41:
...
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.c3 (or 4.c3 Nf6 5.0-0) at least, I cannot find it in "Beating the Open Games". I faced this variation in my last tournament as Black and it was a pretty unpleasant experience. My opponent was rated roughly 150 rating points lower. I managed to recall some Emms analysis that I had read some 4 years earlier, and pieced together the right ideas, but still only drew as I had used up all my time over the first 10 moves.
....


My latest acquired wisdom: it is better to know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about a position that to dimly recall some moves that make your analysis biased towards what you think you remember.

Have a read of Leif's Johanesen (?) preface in his Zaitsev book. Basically he trusted his ability to play logical moves when facing sidelines!

That c3 system looks like nothing too special anyway Wink
  

Fernando Semprun
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #237 - 01/10/08 at 12:35:20
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Hi BlkSabb,
Could you give me some detail on these transpositions so I can look them up in Marin's book?
Thanks a bunch! Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #236 - 01/09/08 at 21:23:38
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It's a very short section.  1 e4 e5; 2 Bc4 Nc6 and he says that White can't give the game an independent character.  He gives a few examples of how this will transpose into something else he already covered.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #235 - 01/09/08 at 15:29:01
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Mortal Games wrote on 05/01/07 at 10:55:27:
A Bishop´s Opening transposition and Belgrade Gambit are now available as an update to the book Beating the Open Games in Quality Chess site in news.  Smiley

I tried to download this update but for some technical reason did not succeed.  Is he recommending 1 e4 e5; 2 Bc4 Nf6; 3 d3 c6, which I'm currently playing? Or perhaps a variation which may transpose to the King's Gambit he recommends? Is there any other way to get this update than via the Qualitychessbooks website? Undecided
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #234 - 01/06/08 at 01:57:26
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TopNotch wrote on 01/06/08 at 01:25:39:
Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/06/08 at 01:06:41:
If someone is collecting lines for Marin to analyze for an undate for the qualitychess website, I found another line that probably should be looked at:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.c3 (or 4.c3 Nf6 5.0-0) at least, I cannot find it in "Beating the Open Games". I faced this variation in my last tournament as Black and it was a pretty unpleasant experience. My opponent was rated roughly 150 rating points lower. I managed to recall some Emms analysis that I had read some 4 years earlier, and pieced together the right ideas, but still only drew as I had used up all my time over the first 10 moves.

Maybe it could be looked at in a future update on this site, since it is not covered on Chesspub, at least not under C56  Cool

By the way, anyone know if Emms' analysis still holds up well on this variation?


Didn't realise Emms covered this position, I thought he advocated the Two Knights Defence in his book. It would also be nice if you provided a few more moves for the sake of clarity, as White still has the option to play an Open or Closed Italian game.

Tops Smiley


Yes, Emms covers the Max Lange in addition to the 2Ns, and that is where this variation is covered. However, he reaches it via 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.d4 exd4 5.0-0 Bc5 6.c3!? Nxe4 7.cxd4 d5 8.dxc5 dxc4 etc then covers 9. Qxd8+ and 9.Qe2. I just looked over the chapter again, and found out where I messed up during my game  Embarrassed
P.S NEVER MIND. I just found the line in Marin's book, after a few hours more detective work. Pg 145, Giuoco Piano-Classical main line note 1. Shut my mouth  Lips Sealed
« Last Edit: 01/06/08 at 05:34:14 by Seth_Xoma »  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #233 - 01/06/08 at 01:36:22
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TopNotch wrote on 01/06/08 at 01:25:39:
Didn't realise Emms covered this position, I thought he advocated the Two Knights Defence in his book. It would also be nice if you provided a few more moves for the sake of clarity, as White still has the option to play an Open or Closed Italian game.

Tops Smiley


Eh?  I assume we're talking about Black playing 5...Nxe4 6. d4 d5 (or first ...ed).  Which has "always" been considered fine for Black as far as I know.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #232 - 01/06/08 at 01:25:39
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/06/08 at 01:06:41:
If someone is collecting lines for Marin to analyze for an undate for the qualitychess website, I found another line that probably should be looked at:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.c3 (or 4.c3 Nf6 5.0-0) at least, I cannot find it in "Beating the Open Games". I faced this variation in my last tournament as Black and it was a pretty unpleasant experience. My opponent was rated roughly 150 rating points lower. I managed to recall some Emms analysis that I had read some 4 years earlier, and pieced together the right ideas, but still only drew as I had used up all my time over the first 10 moves.

Maybe it could be looked at in a future update on this site, since it is not covered on Chesspub, at least not under C56  Cool

By the way, anyone know if Emms' analysis still holds up well on this variation?


Didn't realise Emms covered this position, I thought he advocated the Two Knights Defence in his book. It would also be nice if you provided a few more moves for the sake of clarity, as White still has the option to play an Open or Closed Italian game.

Tops Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #231 - 01/06/08 at 01:06:41
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If someone is collecting lines for Marin to analyze for an undate for the qualitychess website, I found another line that probably should be looked at:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.c3 (or 4.c3 Nf6 5.0-0) at least, I cannot find it in "Beating the Open Games". I faced this variation in my last tournament as Black and it was a pretty unpleasant experience. My opponent was rated roughly 150 rating points lower. I managed to recall some Emms analysis that I had read some 4 years earlier, and pieced together the right ideas, but still only drew as I had used up all my time over the first 10 moves.

Maybe it could be looked at in a future update on this site, since it is not covered on Chesspub, at least not under C56  Cool

By the way, anyone know if Emms' analysis still holds up well on this variation?
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #230 - 11/11/07 at 10:27:37
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TopNotch wrote on 11/11/07 at 01:16:42:
JonHecht wrote on 11/10/07 at 20:23:05:
It shall be the greatest update in the history of Chesspub! It will refute lines that people have believed to be sound since the dawn of the 20th century.


I would settle for email notifications when updates come out, but that seems to no longer happen.  Angry

Toppy Smiley


What?  Shocked Don't you check the site every day?  Wink 


  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #229 - 11/11/07 at 01:16:42
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JonHecht wrote on 11/10/07 at 20:23:05:
It shall be the greatest update in the history of Chesspub! It will refute lines that people have believed to be sound since the dawn of the 20th century.


I would settle for email notifications when updates come out, but that seems to no longer happen.  Angry

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #228 - 11/10/07 at 20:23:05
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It shall be the greatest update in the history of Chesspub! It will refute lines that people have believed to be sound since the dawn of the 20th century.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #227 - 11/07/07 at 16:22:31
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Antillian wrote on 11/07/07 at 15:55:35:
Clearly, not!!! This is November, and we are yet to see the October update for Flank Openings.  Angry  Perhaps Carsten is busy working on his "Strategic Opening Repertoire" book which is apparently late as well.

That's true, I don't think I have received one of his updates within the time limit yet  (Huh) but what I really meant was that he is obviously spending so much time doing his October update so that it will be as perfect as possible ...! Undecided
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #226 - 11/07/07 at 15:55:35
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 11/07/07 at 14:51:27:
I've just had a look and the reviews are more like quick impressions of the books, which is quite understandable as Carsten obviously wants to save most of his time for his Flank Openings updates! Wink


Clearly, not!!! This is November, and we are yet to see the October update for Flank Openings.  Angry  Perhaps Carsten is busy working on his "Strategic Opening Repertoire" book which is apparently late as well.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #225 - 11/07/07 at 14:51:27
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I've just had a look and the reviews are more like quick impressions of the books, which is quite understandable as Carsten obviously wants to save most of his time for his Flank Openings updates! Wink
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #224 - 11/07/07 at 14:44:05
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Antillian wrote on 11/07/07 at 14:30:05:
Rossia,

I think Markovich was speaking tongue in cheek

Like Markovich, I already have both books, so I really don't care what Hansen says. However, is it me or are Hansen's book reviews getting more superficial and less and  insightful? I suppose when you are asked to review so many books a month, there is only so much you can do. He used to be really thorough before, but  I guess, he could not keep it up.

I think it depends on the lines in question. He seems much less at home with 1.e4 lines and has more than once given a "wrong" review, esp in non-sicilians. Ie the Ruy explained is given 4 stars, where I thought it was at a "Schiller" level.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #223 - 11/07/07 at 14:30:05
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rossia wrote on 11/07/07 at 13:53:22:
Whoopee! Now I will know if this book that I've been reading for the past two months is any good.


Hansen gave 5 stars for Marin's work, but you will know best if book suits you Mr. Markovich. He is only a FM with sharp tongue and he hasn't always right.
[/quote]

Rossia,

I think Markovich was speaking tongue in cheek

Like Markovich, I already have both books, so I really don't care what Hansen says. However, is it me or are Hansen's book reviews getting more superficial and less and  insightful? I suppose when you are asked to review so many books a month, there is only so much you can do. He used to be really thorough before, but  I guess, he could not keep it up.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #222 - 11/07/07 at 13:53:22
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Whoopee! Now I will know if this book that I've been reading for the past two months is any good. [/quote]

Hansen gave 5 stars for Marin's work, but you will know best if book suits you Mr. Markovich. He is only a FM with sharp tongue and he hasn't always right.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #221 - 11/07/07 at 13:49:28
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Markovich wrote on 11/07/07 at 13:42:44:
Mortal Games wrote on 11/07/07 at 12:11:47:
The Chesscafe critic for "Beating the Open Games" and "A Spanish Opening Repertoire for Black" is out!
Wink


Whoopee! Now I will know if this book that I've been reading for the past two months is any good.


Next month they are reviewing Bilguer's Handbuch. Roll Eyes
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #220 - 11/07/07 at 13:42:44
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Mortal Games wrote on 11/07/07 at 12:11:47:
The Chesscafe critic for "Beating the Open Games" and "A Spanish Opening Repertoire for Black" is out!
Wink


Whoopee! Now I will know if this book that I've been reading for the past two months is any good.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #219 - 11/07/07 at 12:11:47
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The Chesscafe critic for "Beating the Open Games" and "A Spanish Opening Repertoire for Black" is out!
Wink
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #218 - 10/10/07 at 23:08:06
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Odd Gunnar Malin wrote on 10/10/07 at 12:43:51:
It seems that the expectation from a repertoire book differs from my expectation. I would never expect to find all answer in it. What is needed is a brief tour through the opening with the thematic traps covered so I’m able to start playing it. Then when I analyse my games I will go into depth on the variation in the game and use whatever I have on this. ECO, database etc.
Many here seems to laugh of Chess Opening Explained … by Alburt etc. Well I find these books excellent and is exactly what you need to start playing those variants. Ex. In the Black repertoire book a big opening like Catalan are missing but I doubt anybody who have read the book would  feel uncomfortable when facing it eg. answering Bb4 and transpose into bogo-like positions.
As White I have used Khalifman’s according to Kramnik (5 volum), but you find yourself memorize variations instead of understanding the big picture of this repertoire, beside that this isn’t as fun it also have an expire date of the variation covered.
While I have bought both of Marin’s 1.e4 e5 books, I haven’t had the time to try out his repertoire yet but a brief look tell me that these books are in the road of what is needed from a repertoire book.
Nowadays with ICC and other Internet servers you can practice your opening as much as you want before taking it out to a serious game.
An extreme sample of use of repertoire book/video are here: Portuguese Gambit game
This I played (otb 30 min/g) after looking at Jesse Kraai’s 19 minutes ChessLecture-video on this opening.


I couldn't agree more!  In a short amount of time, I've developed a good "feel" for the Ruy Lopez thanks to Marin's book; I have yet to actually do more than scan the theory sections at the back, and while for the sake of completeness, it would be great for them to be as comprehensive and accurate as possible, my instinct is that Marin offers a manual with which you will likely be able to solve problems in the opening and the middlegame on your own.  His penchant for history is also a rather welcome touch...
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #217 - 10/10/07 at 12:43:51
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It seems that the expectation from a repertoire book differs from my expectation. I would never expect to find all answer in it. What is needed is a brief tour through the opening with the thematic traps covered so I’m able to start playing it. Then when I analyse my games I will go into depth on the variation in the game and use whatever I have on this. ECO, database etc.
Many here seems to laugh of Chess Opening Explained … by Alburt etc. Well I find these books excellent and is exactly what you need to start playing those variants. Ex. In the Black repertoire book a big opening like Catalan are missing but I doubt anybody who have read the book would  feel uncomfortable when facing it eg. answering Bb4 and transpose into bogo-like positions.
As White I have used Khalifman’s according to Kramnik (5 volum), but you find yourself memorize variations instead of understanding the big picture of this repertoire, beside that this isn’t as fun it also have an expire date of the variation covered.
While I have bought both of Marin’s 1.e4 e5 books, I haven’t had the time to try out his repertoire yet but a brief look tell me that these books are in the road of what is needed from a repertoire book.
Nowadays with ICC and other Internet servers you can practice your opening as much as you want before taking it out to a serious game.
An extreme sample of use of repertoire book/video are here: Portuguese Gambit game
This I played (otb 30 min/g) after looking at Jesse Kraai’s 19 minutes ChessLecture-video on this opening.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #216 - 10/10/07 at 09:56:43
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Marin in his second suggestion (the Petrosian system) doesn't even consider analysing the main suggestion for white by the two most popular repertoir books for white (Khalifman and Emms)! 12...Bd7 13.Nf1 Nc4 13.dxe5 dxe5 14.Qe2 i think this is the line. Also he doesn't consider in the Scoth main line the suggestion of Emms in his book Starting out: the Scoth about a Qc2 move if i remember correctly. It would be nice if someone informed mr.Marin about these in the hope he will provide us some answers in a future update!
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #215 - 10/06/07 at 23:22:34
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Antillian wrote on 10/06/07 at 12:13:03:
GMKosten,

I have to say this is impressive. All repertoire books invariably have holes. But how many chess publishers or authors make any effort to seriouosly address these issues. Kudos to Quality Chess and GM Marin on this!


Chess Stars have done it with their Sharpest Sicilian. And even more impressively and pro-actively, they did it without the prompting from disgruntled consumers.

Check out the thread The Sharpest Sicilian Updated in the Open Sicilian section.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #214 - 10/06/07 at 23:15:09
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Markovich wrote on 10/05/07 at 13:17:25:
Glenn Flear gives a very favorable review of this book in the latest NIC Yearbook.


I think he might have given a favorable one for Chess Openings for White Explained as well.  Embarrassed

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #213 - 10/06/07 at 20:51:29
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rossia wrote on 10/05/07 at 14:36:21:
Markovich wrote on 10/05/07 at 13:17:25:
Glenn Flear gives a very favorable review of this book in the latest NIC Yearbook.


Can you please Mister post full Flear's review of Marin's books?

I'm looking forward!

Thanks in advance if possible  Grin


Sorry, copyright info!
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #212 - 10/06/07 at 18:53:08
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Antillian wrote on 10/06/07 at 12:13:03:
GMKosten,

I have to say this is impressive. All repertoire books invariably have holes. But how many chess publishers or authors make any effort to seriouosly address these issues. Kudos to Quality Chess and GM Marin on this!


I agree. Maybe we can start making a list, using the 'quote' facility, that is, someone starts the list and then the next post can quote that and add to it, or would this be too cumbersome? Undecided

Toppy: I have mentioned the problems to Jacob myself when we were dining together, I think, but he may also have heard from other Forum members who work for Quality Chess. Wink
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #211 - 10/06/07 at 17:56:01
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 10/06/07 at 12:05:49:
Jacob Aagaard from Quality Chess emailed me to ask:
"You said there were some holes in the Marin book beyond what we already know about. It would be good if you could make a quick chessbase file with what you know. Mihail is preparing an Internet update soon for our site, so it would be good for him to know what he needs to look additionally at" and also "You said that there was a problem with the Ponziani line, also, I know that there was some questioning of the King's Gambit line. Futhermore, I know that 7.Qb3 is missing in the Evans Gambit, which is a real issue Smiley."
Maybe we could try to make a complete list and send it to them? I can add 4 a3 in the Four Knights, as well, unless someone found this in the small print somewhere? Smiley


Did Aagaard get all this info from the forum? If so he should acknowledge it.

Chess Stars already has a regular contributor here, perhaps Quality Chess could consider the same. It could result in even better products in future. As it is, it appears that the intended update maybe more valuable than the book.

Toppy Smiley   
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #210 - 10/06/07 at 12:13:03
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GMKosten,

I have to say this is impressive. All repertoire books invariably have holes. But how many chess publishers or authors make any effort to seriouosly address these issues. Kudos to Quality Chess and GM Marin on this!
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #209 - 10/06/07 at 12:05:49
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Jacob Aagaard from Quality Chess emailed me to ask:
"You said there were some holes in the Marin book beyond what we already know about. It would be good if you could make a quick chessbase file with what you know. Mihail is preparing an Internet update soon for our site, so it would be good for him to know what he needs to look additionally at" and also "You said that there was a problem with the Ponziani line, also, I know that there was some questioning of the King's Gambit line. Futhermore, I know that 7.Qb3 is missing in the Evans Gambit, which is a real issue Smiley."
Maybe we could try to make a complete list and send it to them? I can add 4 a3 in the Four Knights, as well, unless someone found this in the small print somewhere? Smiley
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #208 - 10/05/07 at 18:03:17
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Holbox wrote on 10/05/07 at 10:33:45:
IJEH, have you ever tried to play the open games with black seriously? I mean with same effort you make with the Pirc.


Nope. I got my open game fix from the White side. For me it's classical for White and Hypermodern for Black. Plus I play 1. ...e5 in non-tourney games, without much theory except for what soaked in by the osmosis over the years, I just play it to give my mind a workout.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #207 - 10/05/07 at 14:36:21
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Markovich wrote on 10/05/07 at 13:17:25:
Glenn Flear gives a very favorable review of this book in the latest NIC Yearbook.


Can you please Mister post full Flear's review of Marin's books?

I'm looking forward!

Thanks in advance if possible  Grin
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #206 - 10/05/07 at 13:17:25
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Glenn Flear gives a very favorable review of this book in the latest NIC Yearbook.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #205 - 10/05/07 at 12:14:01
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Quote:
@Dfan:

I
Scotch
1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.d4,exd 4.Nxd4
Emms:  4...Nf6
Davies: 4...Bc5
Marin:   4...Bc5



In fact Marin gives 4...Nf6 against the Scotch.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #204 - 10/05/07 at 10:33:45
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I will add Kaufman's which I think is a more ambitious repertoire against the open games

King's Gambit  - 2...d5 3.ed ef!? (avoiding the bishop gambit, and the dubious Falkbeer CG)
Scotch             - 4...Nf6
Italian,BO        - 3...Bc5
4Kn's               - X...Bd6

And, in any kind of Scotch gambit (Scotch, Goring, Danish, etc..., ) win the pawn, keep up and try to win.

Ruy     - 4...Nf6 

JEH, have you ever tried to play the open games with black seriously? I mean with same effort you make with the Pirc.

  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #203 - 10/05/07 at 05:22:00
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@Dfan:

It much depends on your playing style:

Kings Gambit
1.e4,e5 2.f4
Emms:  2....exf4
Davies: 2....Bc5
Marin:   2....Bc5

Scotch
1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.d4,exd 4.Nxd4
Emms:  4...Nf6
Davies: 4...Bc5
Marin:   4...Bc5

Italian
1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.Bc4
Emms:  3....Nf6
Davies: 3....Nf6
Marin:   3....Bc5
Both Emms and Marin include the Max-Lange attack

And eh, dont forget the 1...e5 section of chesspublishing  Smiley
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #202 - 10/04/07 at 18:22:01
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Antillian wrote on 10/04/07 at 00:59:32:
Just to give some context, I am 2100 rated player previously loyal to the Pirc (See http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1164073377/0 ) I am  converting to 1...e5 as my primary defence to 1 e4.


You'll be back  Wink

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #201 - 10/04/07 at 13:30:14
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Antillian wrote on 10/04/07 at 00:59:32:
I currently own Marin, Daives and Emms and of the three, I have found Marin to be the most instrutive and most valuable by far.

Thanks for the thoughtful review.  I'm an 1800s-player currently learning 1...e5 lines (except for the Spanish) from Davies, and I like his lines.  Do you think Marin would be a good complement, or is the repertoire different enough that I should avoid being confused by it for now?
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #200 - 10/04/07 at 03:21:41
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Antillian (and indeed Geof Strayer earlier):

Thanks for your considered posts on the book. Been pondering buying for a while. Looks like the upsides may overall outweigh the down, so will buy.

Thanks again for the time you both took to give your views. Always very helpful when posters  do so in considered fashion.

(As an aside, everyone please note: READ previous posts, THINK, WRITE. That order please. A forum not a blog.)
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #199 - 10/04/07 at 00:59:32
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Having spent several weeks with this book. I have to say I am quite satisfied with my purchase. I thought I would write my thoughts since I don't think that anyone should be put off from buying this book by the criticisms of on this thread.

I am not saying that this book is perfect. Yes, there are genuine issues. Some minor lines are indeed missing and some moveorder issues not addressed. However, many of these, though not all,  were corrected in the subsequent pdf adendum released online.

There has been much discussion especially about the line recommended in the KGD where it seems pretty clear that 12. Qd2 leaves White  the more comfortable position. Indeed, I have looked at these lines and I must say i don't feel comfortable playing Black here. However an alternative to 6...Bg4 is given in 6...a6. I belive this alternative was dismissed by GM Kosten in another thread  because of 7 f5 and 7 Nd5. I cannot say that I have exhaustively analysed these lines, but so far as I have looked, I really don't see these as frightful for Black and I think Black's game is quite playable.  

With respect to the quite unusual format Marin uses, (i.e. ECO style table and foot tables) I myself was skeptical at first. But once I got used to it, I did not find it a problem at all. I actually like this innovative format. Indeed it  makes it easiar to look up a line. I hope Marin uses this format when he writes his Catalan repertiore book (Hint, hint to you guys at Quality Chess if you are reading   Wink )

I currently own Marin, Daives and Emms and of the three, I have found Marin to be the most instrutive and most valuable by far.

Just to give some context, I am 2100 rated player previously loyal to the Pirc (See http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1164073377/0 ) I am  converting to 1...e5 as my primary defence to 1 e4. I struggled to my current rating with very little opening work at all and am only now taking a seious study of openings. Thus, I prefer instrutive works with flawed coverage over more complete works with less instructive value. I don't mind using other sources to supplement my learning and to fill in missing lines or to choose substitute lines.

Obviously other persons come from different backgrounds and have different perspectives A more experienced 1....e5 player would probably prefer Emms. Someone who is not prepared to do work on their own or who is looking for a single book to provide a complete repertoire solution would be irritated by the small gaps in Marin. The traditionalists will hate Marin for sure since the unusual format will turn them off.  Roll Eyes

( On this note, don't you get irritated by book reviewers who go on and on about how "superior" the "good old fashioned" tree format is to  the illustrated games. And how about the ones who knock books becuase it won't open flat or it had some typo. Angry Anyway, I digress. This comment is a bit irrelevant, just wanted to get that off my chest)

Anyway, back to Marin. From my perspective, i am hungry for good chesss opening instruction since my goal  is to build a deep understanding of the openings I play rather than just learn all the right lines. So I don't mind putting up with some flaws in books to get that instrution.

If you are anything like me, a non master who wants to understand openings deeply and you value excellent instrution in opening books above anything else, and you are willing to do extra work to supplement minor flaws, then I heartily reccommend this book.  
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #198 - 09/25/07 at 01:53:07
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MNb wrote on 09/25/07 at 01:39:22:
Don't know if it is a clever idea. I have a game going on as Black with the Spanish Exchange. I did not like 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.d4 exd4 7.Bg5 and 8.Qxd4 for Black. White has a lead in development and of course the better pawn structure.


4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.d4 exd4 7.Bg5. Doesn't 7...Bxf3 win a piece now?

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #197 - 09/25/07 at 01:39:22
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Don't know if it is a clever idea. I have a game going on as Black with the Spanish Exchange. I did not like 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.d4 exd4 7.Bg5 and 8.Qxd4 for Black. White has a lead in development and of course the better pawn structure.

S**t. As TN points out in the next post, there is a typo in the line above. I meant 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.0-0 Qf6 6.d4 exd4 7.Bg5 and 8.Qxd4.
5...Bg4 is the move I actually played.
« Last Edit: 09/25/07 at 03:58:27 by MNb »  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #196 - 09/24/07 at 21:02:41
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ZCC wrote on 09/24/07 at 20:46:28:
Hi to all!

I'm a new subscriber (sorry for my poor english) but I want only notice a line missing in Marin's book :

After the moves:

1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Bf5 a6
4.Bxc6 dxc6
5.OO f6
6.d4 Bg4!?
7.c3 Bd6
8.Be3 Ne7

Stefan Kindermann in his book "THE SPANISH EXCHANGE VARIATION - 2005"  suggested as main line a very interesting new

idea of Vladimir Baklan :  

9.dxe5!?

Game Backlan - Kallio (2002) continued with:

9... fxe5
10.h3 Bh5
11.c4! c5
12.b4! ... [1-0 39]


At first impression It seems to me not analyzed in Marin's book... in Megabase 2007 there are 2 games but white scores 100% ...  Cry

Perhaps GM Kosten refers to this line when He said there is a "hole" in Ruy Lopez exchange ?

thanks to all for this beautiful forum!

ZCC


Thanks very much for that post ZCC.

You maybe onto something there.

Would you also happen to have any clever ideas against: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6
5.OO Qf6!?
perchance?

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #195 - 09/24/07 at 20:46:28
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Hi to all!

I'm a new subscriber (sorry for my poor english) but I want only notice a line missing in Marin's book :

After the moves:

1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Bf5 a6
4.Bxc6 dxc6
5.OO f6
6.d4 Bg4!?
7.c3 Bd6
8.Be3 Ne7

Stefan Kindermann in his book "THE SPANISH EXCHANGE VARIATION - 2005"  suggested as main line a very interesting new

idea of Vladimir Baklan :  

9.dxe5!?

Game Backlan - Kallio (2002) continued with:

9... fxe5
10.h3 Bh5
11.c4! c5
12.b4! ... [1-0 39]


At first impression It seems to me not analyzed in Marin's book... in Megabase 2007 there are 2 games but white scores 100% ...  Cry

Perhaps GM Kosten refers to this line when He said there is a "hole" in Ruy Lopez exchange ?

thanks to all for this beautiful forum!

ZCC
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #194 - 09/19/07 at 17:02:31
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LaRocque wrote on 09/19/07 at 11:03:20:
GMTonyKosten wrote on 06/15/07 at 15:41:10:
Antillian wrote on 06/13/07 at 18:54:34:
Tony,
Now that you are covering 1...e5, will you be tackling this line in your updates?

Yes, as soon as I find a good line for Black! Smiley

Ametanoitos wrote on 06/15/07 at 15:30:59:
When we analysed the 10.Qd2 line with my coach we decided that 10...Bxf3 11.gxf3! Nd7 12.Kh1 exf4 13.Qxf4 Nde5 14.Bd3 Nd4 looks nice for black. I know nothing else about the theory of this line. Do i miss something stronger for white?

In his analysis to Axelrod - Mikhalevski, in his May '06 update, Olivier gave 12 f5 and a nice variation that won for White.


In his analysis, Renet give 12.f5 Nb6 13.Bb3 Cd4 14.Qg2, but 13...a5 seems to be interesting:
14.a3 (14.Qg2 a4) a4 15.Ba2 Rfd8!? and if 16.Qg2 c4!?


Your suggestion of 13...a5 was considered by me in the following thread http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172299697/30#34 and it was concluded that White is still comfortably better or maybe more.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #193 - 09/19/07 at 11:03:20
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 06/15/07 at 15:41:10:
Antillian wrote on 06/13/07 at 18:54:34:
Tony,
Now that you are covering 1...e5, will you be tackling this line in your updates?

Yes, as soon as I find a good line for Black! Smiley

Ametanoitos wrote on 06/15/07 at 15:30:59:
When we analysed the 10.Qd2 line with my coach we decided that 10...Bxf3 11.gxf3! Nd7 12.Kh1 exf4 13.Qxf4 Nde5 14.Bd3 Nd4 looks nice for black. I know nothing else about the theory of this line. Do i miss something stronger for white?

In his analysis to Axelrod - Mikhalevski, in his May '06 update, Olivier gave 12 f5 and a nice variation that won for White.


In his analysis, Renet give 12.f5 Nb6 13.Bb3 Cd4 14.Qg2, but 13...a5 seems to be interesting:
14.a3 (14.Qg2 a4) a4 15.Ba2 Rfd8!? and if 16.Qg2 c4!?
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #192 - 09/19/07 at 03:56:32
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Not really, I have little to add. Of course Black has other options than 9.fxe5 dxe5 10.a3 Be6; 10...Bg4 creates a well known threat. A long tiring debate on "roughly balanced" or "a tiny edge" does not look fruitful to me. You excellently have described why I prefer White - his advantages are permantent, Black's temporary.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #191 - 09/19/07 at 01:13:29
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MNb wrote on 09/10/07 at 21:29:06:
My instinct tells me that I prefer White after 7...Bb6 8.Nxb6 axb6 9.fxe5 dxe5. This was confirmed in Hromadka-Mikulka, Olomouc 1944. After 10.a3 a transposition is possible.
White's edge may not be earthshaking, but still concrete. For instance White's lack of control of square d5 looks very temporary indeed.  Wink


The position you quoted above never actually occurred in that game, nor is a transposition likely. For the record here is the complete game score:

[Event "Olomouc"]
[Site "Olomouc"]
[Date "1944.??.??"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Hromadka,Karel"]
[Black "Mikulka,Rudolf"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "C30"]

1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.d3 d6 5.f4 Nf6 6.Nf3 0-0 7.Na4 Bb6 8.Nxb6 axb6 9.a3 Be6 10.Bxe6 fxe6 11.fxe5 dxe5 12.0-0 Qd6 13.h3 Nd4 14.Be3 Nh5 15.Kh2 g6 16.Bh6 Ng7 17.Rc1 Rf7 18.Ng5 Rxf1 19.Qxf1 Rf8 20.Qe1 Qe7 21.c3 Nb3 22.Rd1 Qf6 23.Nf3 Nc5 24.Bg5 Qf7 25.Nxe5 Qf2 26.Qxf2 Rxf2 27.Kg1 Rxb2 28.Rf1 Rb3 29.Bh6 Nf5 30.exf5 gxf5 31.Rf3  1-0

White did manage to win the above game, but Black's opening play was deplorable. For instance simply 9...exf4 intending d5 gives Black a nice advantage, and should White delay recapture with 10.0-0 Black maintains his advantage with 10...Ne5 .

Exchanging pawns as given in your example is relatively best, nevertheless there are pros and cons to such an approach for White. In particular the exchange of pawns frees black game as now his light squared Bishop will never be in danger of being locked in by f5, while his Queen can now zip into the dark squares via d6 which incidentally neutralises Bg5 pins nicely and also white has given away the possibility of a pawn storm which is often his most dangerous plan in these KGD positions. Having said all that White does have the Bishop pair and a slightly better pawn structure which may in the long term compensate for his lag in development which was only compounded by luxuries such as a3.

Weighing everything together I would say the position is roughly balanced and that the line proposed while relatively safe doesn't represent a critical try for White.

As I said before, one must be quite cautious when offering antiquated sources to make a case for an Opening or Opening line.

Toppy Smiley

Postscript: Start a new thread if you want to discuss this line in further detail, this one is already pages too long. Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #190 - 09/18/07 at 18:46:46
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TopNotch wrote on 09/10/07 at 19:21:04:
Nevertheless I would be curious about what he had written about the exchange Ruy and disappointed that this variation was not included in the companion volume instead. 


Glenn Flear told me that he thought the section was generally good, but another source has informed me that one of the critical lines is incorrectly assessed. Undecided
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #189 - 09/10/07 at 21:29:06
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My instinct tells me that I prefer White after 7...Bb6 8.Nxb6 axb6 9.fxe5 dxe5. This was confirmed in Hromadka-Mikulka, Olomouc 1944. After 10.a3 a transposition is possible.
White's edge may not be earthshaking, but still concrete. For instance White's lack of control of square d5 looks very temporary indeed.  Wink
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #188 - 09/10/07 at 20:43:04
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MNb wrote on 09/10/07 at 20:21:56:
You are probably right about 7.f5, but 7.Na4 secures an edge since Tartakower-Opocensky, Baden bei Wien 1914. Only the move order has changed since then: 7.Na4 Bg4 8.c3 Na5 9.Nxc5 dxc5 avoids 8.Nxc5 dxc5 9.c3 Qd6!


This old reference is not a good foundation for suggesting that 7.Na4 secures an edge for White. 7.Na4 should be met simply by 7...Bb6 and in fact White's temporary lack of control of the d5 square is more important here than the acquisition of the bishop pair. Moreover after 7.Na4 White must play precisely just to maintain the balance.

The failure of 7.Na4 in this line is primaily the reason I consider the prophylactic 6...a6 to be unneccesary.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #187 - 09/10/07 at 20:21:56
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You are probably right about 7.f5, but 7.Na4 secures an edge since Tartakower-Opocensky, Baden bei Wien 1914. Only the move order has changed since then: 7.Na4 Bg4 8.c3 Na5 9.Nxc5 dxc5 avoids 8.Nxc5 dxc5 9.c3 Qd6!
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #186 - 09/10/07 at 19:21:04
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Quote:
For a black improvement on the 'Olivier Renet - line'
(though 12. Qd2 was allready played 5 years earlier)  Smiley
see the Kings Gambit convert thread, where there is some discussion:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172299697/30#34

Nevertheless personally I prefer 6...a6 over 6...Bg4, and 2....,exf over 2....Bc5  Wink


There is no viable Black improvement mentioned in the thread referred to above, in fact the lines I gave there show White doing extremely well and nothing has changed since then. Having said that, I still believe 2...Bc5 is a sound and safe line against the Kings Gambit provided he plays 6...0-0!, this under-rated move has been incorrectly assessed by official theory in my opinion, which considers 7.f5 to be the antidote, but I do not believe it.      

After wading through this entire thread again, even the endless upon endless pages devoted to the 'merits' of Pressurize, Pressure and Re-cuperate, I decided to give this book a miss. Based on the many arguments made for and against I felt that too many critical lines were not dealt with properly in this book. Nevertheless I would be curious about what he had written about the exchange Ruy and disappointed that this variation was not included in the companion volume instead. Nevertheless I still  decided to order his companion volume, as the Ruy Lopez proper is a topic that an 1.e4 e5 player from either side of the board cannot have too much information about, especially from a strong GM.

Toppy Smiley

  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #185 - 06/24/07 at 09:25:28
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/24/07 at 04:54:08:
John, Tony, (and others)

What do you mean when you say that "official" opening theory varies between countries?

Surely by now everyone would be on the same page screen?

Not in the e4e5 openings. Hosts of book repeat lines already refuted in say the Bilguer.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #184 - 06/24/07 at 08:42:47
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Maybe it's just we idle English, but a lot of people here form their opening ideas and repertoires from books, and of course they have different books in Romania.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #183 - 06/24/07 at 04:54:08
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John, Tony, (and others)

What do you mean when you say that "official" opening theory varies between countries?

Surely by now everyone would be on the same page screen?
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #182 - 06/23/07 at 14:10:37
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I agree with Tony; this is a pretty strange omission. It's perhaps an illustration of the curious way 'official' opening theory varies between countries, but still.

Another curious omission, unless I've missed it, is Tiviakov's dangerous Be3 plan from the chapter on the Guioco Pianissimo.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #181 - 06/22/07 at 10:37:08
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Ametanoitos wrote on 06/21/07 at 18:37:05:
in the Ponziani line, after 8.Nd2 OK Marin doesn't mention it, neither does Emms

To be fair to John, the ...Nf6 line is very much his 2nd string suggestion, Nxg6 just getting one note, and he does say quite clearly that the problem with this line is that play can reach "a rather stale endgame position". In fact one of the big advantages of John's work over Marin's is that he always gives at least two distinct lines for Black, so if you don't like one ... Smiley

Ametanoitos wrote on 06/21/07 at 18:37:05:
Marin gives another line (6..a6 instead of 6..Bg4) with some original analysis that looks OK for me

But the vast bulk of his KG repertoire is devoted to 6...Bg4, pages and pages of it, and he doesn't mention the key move! I can assure you that I am not the only one who finds this astounding, several other titled players have mentioned it to me, I really don't think I am being 'harsh'!
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #180 - 06/21/07 at 18:37:05
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I think that Mr Kosten is a bit harsh about Marin's book. First of all in the King's Gambit issue, Marin gives another line (6..a6 instead of 6..Bg4) with some original analysis that looks OK for me. Then, in the Ponziani line, after 8.Nd2 OK Marin doesn't mention it, neither does Emms or every chess encyclopedia i looked! But Marin does give some hints about how to play the position and above all gives the line 8.Be3 followed by 9.Nd2 which is an improved version of 8.Nd2 i think and he gives then 9..Nf6! So, i suppose 8.Nd2 Nf6! is more than OK for black as Marin would say(!) because of the 8.Be3 line i mentioned.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #179 - 06/18/07 at 10:49:37
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Quote:
For a black improvement on the 'Olivier Renet - line'
(though 12. Qd2 was allready played 5 years earlier)  Smiley
see the Kings Gambit convert thread, where there is some discussion:

Yes, but I thought the general agreement there was that White was better, anyway? The problem is that White has two bishops, a solid pawn structure plus some attacking chances on the g-file. Unless Black has something tangible really quickly he simply must be worse. Sad
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #178 - 06/16/07 at 15:18:13
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For a black improvement on the 'Olivier Renet - line'
(though 12. Qd2 was allready played 5 years earlier)  Smiley
see the Kings Gambit convert thread, where there is some discussion:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172299697/30#34

Nevertheless personally I prefer 6...a6 over 6...Bg4, and 2....,exf over 2....Bc5  Wink
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #177 - 06/15/07 at 15:41:10
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Antillian wrote on 06/13/07 at 18:54:34:
Tony,
Now that you are covering 1...e5, will you be tackling this line in your updates?

Yes, as soon as I find a good line for Black! Smiley

Ametanoitos wrote on 06/15/07 at 15:30:59:
When we analysed the 10.Qd2 line with my coach we decided that 10...Bxf3 11.gxf3! Nd7 12.Kh1 exf4 13.Qxf4 Nde5 14.Bd3 Nd4 looks nice for black. I know nothing else about the theory of this line. Do i miss something stronger for white?

In his analysis to Axelrod - Mikhalevski, in his May '06 update, Olivier gave 12 f5 and a nice variation that won for White.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #176 - 06/15/07 at 15:30:59
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When we analysed the 10.Qd2 line with my coach we decided that 10...Bxf3 11.gxf3! Nd7 12.Kh1 exf4 13.Qxf4 Nde5 14.Bd3 Nd4 looks nice for black. I know nothing else about the theory of this line. Do i miss something stronger for white?
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #175 - 06/13/07 at 18:54:34
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/18/07 at 21:40:29:
I have just been looking at the KG and was surprised to find no mention of the critical 7 Na4 0-0 8 Nxc5 dxc5 9 0-0 Qd6 10 Qd2! which was mentioned by Renet way back in the May 2006 update (http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/1/may06.htm) - which was the reason I gave up playing ...Bc5. A quick look at the bibliography reveals that there is no mention of ChessPublishing.com at all (how is this possible?!) Shocked
Actually there doesn't seem to be any mention of several recent works of importance, either, the John Emms book or the Nigel Davies book, for instance. Undecided


Tony,

Now that you are covering 1...e5, will you be tackling this line in your updates?
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #174 - 06/12/07 at 14:48:15
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Markovich wrote on 06/12/07 at 14:29:50:
Yesterday I received my copy of Marin's 1...e5 book and spent quite a while perusing it.  I am quite impressed that the GM has so much to say about how to play the middlegame positions that arise from the recommended systems.  Except for not being able to ask questions, it's a whole lot like having a GM for a personal instructor.  The back cover says that Marin has written a middlegame book under the guise of an openings book, and that's very close to the truth.  

If you're with a GM at a tournament or someplace, and he starts talking about chess, it's a good idea to shut up and listen.  And here we have Marin sharing his insights into hundreds of positions.  In some ways it misses the point to worry about whether these lines are worthy of inclusion in your repertoire.  This would be a most excellent book to read, even if you never intended to play any of these lines (though that would less immediately conducive to producing points, I admit).

As a repertoire book, I can take it or leave it; as set of middlegame lessons, it's one of the better recent books I've come across.

I can only imagine, though, that this and its Spanish companion work must have been a b---h to edit.  From the strange juxtaposition of tabular variations, standard game commentaries and outright lectures, I suspect that it came to its editors somewhat ill-formed.  I rather suspect that it was an editor's decision to split a single work in two, and to include, no doubt due to space considerations, the Exchange Spanish in the first volume.  But in any case it's well worth buying.

Very interesting review. I'd intended giving the book a miss (despite normally buying at least one chess book every Saturday and often more) but may change my mind now. Only one point arises: I can't work out the missing letters in b---h!
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #173 - 06/12/07 at 14:29:50
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Yesterday I received my copy of Marin's 1...e5 book and spent quite a while perusing it.  I am quite impressed that the GM has so much to say about how to play the middlegame positions that arise from the recommended systems.  Except for not being able to ask questions, it's a whole lot like having a GM for a personal instructor.  The back cover says that Marin has written a middlegame book under the guise of an openings book, and that's very close to the truth. 

If you're with a GM at a tournament or someplace, and he starts talking about chess, it's a good idea to shut up and listen.  And here we have Marin sharing his insights into hundreds of positions.  In some ways it misses the point to worry about whether these lines are worthy of inclusion in your repertoire.  This would be a most excellent book to read, even if you never intended to play any of these lines (though that would less immediately conducive to producing points, I admit).

As a repertoire book, I can take it or leave it; as set of middlegame lessons, it's one of the better recent books I've come across.

I can only imagine, though, that this and its Spanish companion work must have been a b---h to edit.  From the strange juxtaposition of tabular variations, standard game commentaries and outright lectures, I suspect that it came to its editors somewhat ill-formed.  I rather suspect that it was an editor's decision to split a single work in two, and to include, no doubt due to space considerations, the Exchange Spanish in the first volume.  But in any case it's well worth buying.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #172 - 06/08/07 at 11:26:49
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Re the insert: AFAIK it's available as a pdf from the quality chess books site - I think it's the same.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #171 - 06/07/07 at 16:06:55
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Amazon Super Saver shipping is fast in this case.  Got it today - Thursday (ordered it Tuesday).

Bishop's Opening insert loose inside.  

As others have commented, format is interesting, sort of like ECO with expanded notes.  Will have to work with it for a few days to see if it drives me crazy or is helpful.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #170 - 06/05/07 at 13:53:44
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Thanks for the reply. Oh well, I was hoping it might be bound in, but what the heck.  I pulled the trigger on Amazon since I will be starting a new correspondence tourney shortly.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #169 - 06/05/07 at 03:12:48
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]I would normally hesitate to speak to royalty, but Prince-Nez (or anyone else who first discovers it), I'd be interested to know if the U.S. Amazon edition is including the insert on the bishop's opening.

Your Highness, you have my most humble gratitude.

And browniesbane, is the bishop's opening insert bound into the edition you purchased, or simply inserted?

thanks for any info

[/quote]

No the insert was loose
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #168 - 06/04/07 at 23:28:03
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DD-OK wrote on 06/04/07 at 21:18:09:
but Prince-Nez (or anyone else who first discovers it), I'd be interested to know if the U.S. Amazon edition is including the insert on the bishop's opening.



I'll let you know when I get it.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #167 - 06/04/07 at 21:18:09
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I would normally hesitate to speak to royalty, but Prince-Nez (or anyone else who first discovers it), I'd be interested to know if the U.S. Amazon edition is including the insert on the bishop's opening.

Your Highness, you have my most humble gratitude.

And browniesbane, is the bishop's opening insert bound into the edition you purchased, or simply inserted?

thanks for any info

  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #166 - 06/04/07 at 19:40:43
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Markovich wrote on 06/04/07 at 18:03:46:
Prince-Nez wrote on 06/04/07 at 15:25:09:
Amazon is now shipping it.  


Right, except "Usually ships within 4-7 weeks" means they're shipping it from Europe, presumably through an agent.  4-7 weeks, what kind of service is that?


I'm not sure where you saw that.  I saw this:

Availability: In Stock. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.

In any case, mine is in the mail and I usually get a book two to three days after getting their email notification.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #165 - 06/04/07 at 18:03:46
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Prince-Nez wrote on 06/04/07 at 15:25:09:
Amazon is now shipping it.   


Right, except "Usually ships within 4-7 weeks" means they're shipping it from Europe, presumably through an agent.  4-7 weeks, what kind of service is that?
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #164 - 06/04/07 at 15:25:09
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Amazon is now shipping it.
  

We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art. &&~ Henry James
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #163 - 05/31/07 at 03:25:06
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Markovich wrote on 05/21/07 at 12:15:00:
Alias wrote on 05/19/07 at 05:26:58:
Antillian wrote on 05/18/07 at 21:26:14:
Markovich wrote on 05/18/07 at 17:43:40:

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.


Markovich,

It does not seem to be available in the US as yet so you won't get it on Amazon.com. Apparetnly, Quality Chess books  take several months before they reach the US.

If you aren't prepared to wait, you can buy it directly from Quality Chess. That is where I got mine.  Of coure the price is in Euros and the shipping will take longer.


I'm not sure it's a US vs Europe thing. It's not available at UK Amazon either. The only ones who seems to have it are specialised chess stores based in Europe like Niggemann and New In Chess. The chess stores are having a hard time competing in price with these on-line general stores. Ari Ziegler is both financial CEO of QC and owns the major chess store in Sweden (Schackbutiken http://www.mamut.com/schackbutiken ). Could it be that they are holding back the book for general stores?


If they're doing that, they're shooting themselves in the financial foot.  It's ridiculous that these works don't come to the U.S. market until months after they're published.  Most chess works have a limited shelf life, so here they are watching their product grow stale before shipping it to the U.S.?  There's a demand for this product; I can't imagine why these idiots don't want to satisfy it.

And no, I do not want to hassle with Schach Niggemann.  It's a nice store but dealing from so great a distance, and in another language, is a pain.


I just picked it up at a independent bookstore in Michigan. I noticed they had added the insert covering the bishops opening etc--maybe thats the cause for the delay.


  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #162 - 05/21/07 at 20:11:17
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There shouldn't be a language problem since they have an english homepage.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #161 - 05/21/07 at 12:15:00
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Alias wrote on 05/19/07 at 05:26:58:
Antillian wrote on 05/18/07 at 21:26:14:
Markovich wrote on 05/18/07 at 17:43:40:

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.


Markovich,

It does not seem to be available in the US as yet so you won't get it on Amazon.com. Apparetnly, Quality Chess books  take several months before they reach the US.

If you aren't prepared to wait, you can buy it directly from Quality Chess. That is where I got mine.  Of coure the price is in Euros and the shipping will take longer.


I'm not sure it's a US vs Europe thing. It's not available at UK Amazon either. The only ones who seems to have it are specialised chess stores based in Europe like Niggemann and New In Chess. The chess stores are having a hard time competing in price with these on-line general stores. Ari Ziegler is both financial CEO of QC and owns the major chess store in Sweden (Schackbutiken http://www.mamut.com/schackbutiken ). Could it be that they are holding back the book for general stores?


If they're doing that, they're shooting themselves in the financial foot.  It's ridiculous that these works don't come to the U.S. market until months after they're published.  Most chess works have a limited shelf life, so here they are watching their product grow stale before shipping it to the U.S.?  There's a demand for this product; I can't imagine why these idiots don't want to satisfy it.

And no, I do not want to hassle with Schach Niggemann.  It's a nice store but dealing from so great a distance, and in another language, is a pain.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #160 - 05/19/07 at 20:02:41
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Strategy_Rules wrote on 05/19/07 at 15:16:56:
Maybe 3...exf4 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bb4 is an easier way to equalize. Is this line mentioned in his book, too ?

No, he just considers 3...Bc5.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #159 - 05/19/07 at 19:29:36
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Well , I do not have it Smiley
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #158 - 05/19/07 at 19:28:19
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5...Bb4 is not an easier way to equalize. See Johansson's book The Fascinating King's Gambit. I am pretty sure, Marin has not mentioned it, even though I haven't seen his book.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #157 - 05/19/07 at 15:16:56
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ok, 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5 is quite unclear after 4.fxe5, I agree. Maybe 3...exf4 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bb4 is an easier way to equalize. Is this line mentioned in his book, too ?
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #156 - 05/19/07 at 12:45:24
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The price difference is considerable. Consider Amazon.com pre-order price of US$17.13 to the QUality Chess price of 23.99 Euro = US$32.39    Shocked Not to mention that it costs an arm and leg to ship to the Caribbean.

This is why i always wait for books to reach Amazon before i buy them. In this case, I just couldn't wait.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #155 - 05/19/07 at 05:26:58
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Antillian wrote on 05/18/07 at 21:26:14:
Markovich wrote on 05/18/07 at 17:43:40:

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.


Markovich,

It does not seem to be available in the US as yet so you won't get it on Amazon.com. Apparetnly, Quality Chess books  take several months before they reach the US.

If you aren't prepared to wait, you can buy it directly from Quality Chess. That is where I got mine.  Of coure the price is in Euros and the shipping will take longer.


I'm not sure it's a US vs Europe thing. It's not available at UK Amazon either. The only ones who seems to have it are specialised chess stores based in Europe like Niggemann and New In Chess. The chess stores are having a hard time competing in price with these on-line general stores. Ari Ziegler is both financial CEO of QC and owns the major chess store in Sweden (Schackbutiken http://www.mamut.com/schackbutiken ). Could it be that they are holding back the book for general stores?
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #154 - 05/19/07 at 01:47:59
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It is available to be pre-ordered at Amazon for $17.13.
  

We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art. &&~ Henry James
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #153 - 05/18/07 at 21:40:29
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I have just been looking at the KG and was surprised to find no mention of the critical 7 Na4 0-0 8 Nxc5 dxc5 9 0-0 Qd6 10 Qd2! which was mentioned by Renet way back in the May 2006 update (http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/1/may06.htm) - which was the reason I gave up playing ...Bc5. A quick look at the bibliography reveals that there is no mention of ChessPublishing.com at all (how is this possible?!) Shocked
Actually there doesn't seem to be any mention of several recent works of importance, either, the John Emms book or the Nigel Davies book, for instance. Undecided
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #152 - 05/18/07 at 21:26:14
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Markovich wrote on 05/18/07 at 17:43:40:

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.


Markovich,

It does not seem to be available in the US as yet so you won't get it on Amazon.com. Apparetnly, Quality Chess books  take several months before they reach the US.

If you aren't prepared to wait, you can buy it directly from Quality Chess. That is where I got mine.  Of coure the price is in Euros and the shipping will take longer.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #151 - 05/18/07 at 17:43:40
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Thanks, Geoff.  Since you've convinced me to buy this book, Marin owes you what now -- a dime?  Anyway, thanks for the review.

But where to buy?  I don't see it on Amazon.

Probably the reason for putting the Spanish Exchange lines in this book was to create a book approximately equal in size to Marin's Spanish book, or at least, to keep the latter from getting too big.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #150 - 05/18/07 at 11:42:09
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Antillian wrote on 05/18/07 at 11:14:56:
Then I enter all the moves from the MCO style table into Chess Openings Wizard. (This is one advantage of the table) I then play through the moves and try to follow what is going on based on my own preexisting knowledge and understanding as well as what i picked up for the illustrative game section. Then I use the footnotes to explore the lines more deeply.

Yes, good idea, I was thinking of maybe adding the lines and important notes to the appropriate ChessPub Guide on my portable computer so I could go through them more quickly. There is obviously a lot of good material here, I just need to extract it and put it in a form I can use.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #149 - 05/18/07 at 11:14:56
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I agree somewhat with Geof's sentiments about keeping an open mind about the unusual format. As I mentioned earliar, I am still not sure what to make of it. But I can certainly understand why someone rated some 400+ points higher than me as is GM Kosten would find the format fustrating.

Having said that, I am seeing some advantages to the format. (Btw, I think it is in some ways similar to the format I heard was used in "The Safest Sicilian" i.e quick repertoire followed by detailed repertoire.)

The way I have used the Marin book so far is to first go through the games section which helps me to understand the key ideas. Then I enter all the moves from the MCO style table into Chess Openings Wizard. (This is one advantage of the table) I then play through the moves and try to follow what is going on based on my own preexisting knowledge and understanding as well as what i picked up for the illustrative game section. Then I use the footnotes to explore the lines more deeply.

I am by no means deep into the book yet. So I will see how it goes
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #148 - 05/18/07 at 10:16:36
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Geof_Strayer wrote on 05/18/07 at 07:46:54:
Marin has used the ECO-style format (i.e., ECO-style charts with main lines, footnotes for deviations, and evaluations much as you would find in ECO), but improved on it greatly by including many (and sometimes rather lengthy) textual comments that contain a wealth of insights into the moves and evaluations given.  In fact, the footnotes to the ECO charts are the heart of this book, and they are nothing like the notes in ECO itself.


True, which makes it even more annoying for me as the notes are much longer and spread over even more pages! Sad

Geof_Strayer wrote on 05/18/07 at 07:46:54:
I have encountered only a handful of these "drawing lines" so far, although I have already spent many hours with this book.  In most instance where the repertoire recommendation might fairly be characterized as a "drawing line" a brief inspection of the footnotes will provide reasonable alternatives for Black that avoid the drawing line.


Check out:
7 Bd2 on page 145 if White plays 12 Qb3 repeating. The only alternative given for Black, 10...Nce7, "looks a bit passive".
Scotch 4 Knights p. 190, line 16, note 132. The alternatives given are very risky, close to losing.
Giouco Pianissimo, p.158 (and 160) both key games lead to a repetition.
I have only been scratching the surface so far, but there are some other odd things like the favoured line in the Mieses Variation, p.217, lines 10/11, which is the same as the Kasparov-Timman game given with ...g6 added.
In the Ponziani (why does it say 'The Centre game' at the top of the pages?!) he doesn't consider the obvious (and possibly best) 7 Qf3 Nf6 8 Nxg6 hxg6 9 Be3.

I really don't think it stands comparison with Rogozenko's Sveshnikov Reloaded myself.  
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #147 - 05/18/07 at 09:05:47
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From http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/ May 12: "Mihail Marin’s new book A Spanish Repertoire for Black is on the way: it is being printed today. Together with Beating the Open Games this completes Marin’s repertoire against 1.e4. "
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #146 - 05/18/07 at 08:22:23
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Geof, you don't post here very often, but when you do it's always very informative. Thanks!
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #145 - 05/18/07 at 07:46:54
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I think GM Marin's book is absolutely outstanding, although the approach that Marin employs (both in format and style) is sufficiently unusual that I can understand why some people might find it a bit strange and, as such, also a bit offputting.  

GM Emms' book "Play the Open Games" was excellent for its time (e.g., circa 2000), and set a high standard with respect to the difficult task of providing the basis for a "pre-Ruy" 1.e4 e5 repertoire for Black.  GM Davies' recent recent 1.e4 e5 repertoire book is quite good, and has some interesting repertoire suggestions.  However due to the format (complete games) of Davies' book and its broader coverage (more than half of the book is devoted to Ruy Lopez lines), the 100 pages in Davies' book covering the same general territory as Marin's book simply cannot compare in terms of depth of opening analysis and quantity of commentary with Marin's 287 tightly-packed pages.  (That having been said, I like the complete games format and think it is one of the best ways to introduce yourself to a new opening.)  I also feel that the quailty of analysis in Marin's book, his willingness to wrestle with and try to improve on existing theory, goes somewhat beyond what Davies did (although I thought Davies' book also was a pretty good effort in these respects).

The introductory "historical games/fragments" sections in each theoretical chapter in Marin's book is a little unusual for a repertoire book, and it certainly true that the games/fragments don't always fall strictly within the repertoire.  However, these games/fragments were not necessarily chosen for their current theoretical significance, and Marin's idea of showing the historical evolution of theory in the relevant lines is a very interesting way of illuminating the modern theory presented in detail in his ECO-style charts.  I also think that the analysis Marin provides in these introductory games/fragments is simply superb and provides a lot of insight into the critical ideas for both sides.  Nonetheless, it is certainly true that the bulk of relevant analysis in this book is provided in the ECO-style charts and the footnotes thereto.

Personally, I like the way Marin has used the ECO-style charts.  Marin has used the ECO-style format (i.e., ECO-style charts with main lines, footnotes for deviations, and evaluations much as you would find in ECO), but improved on it greatly by including many (and sometimes rather lengthy) textual comments that contain a wealth of insights into the moves and evaluations given.  In fact, the footnotes to the ECO charts are the heart of this book, and they are nothing like the notes in ECO itself.  I give a few randomly chosen footnotes below to provide some feeling for their style and textual content:

*************************************

footnote 21 on page 68 starts out:  "10...Rh4   Black intends to provoke the following move, in the hope that he wil be able to take advantage of the weakness of the light squares.  In doing so, he has failed to understand that the advance of the g-pawn consolidates the f4-bishop and enables the development of its light-squared colleague...[a game fragment is given, followed by an evaluation of +=]...Black managed to draw without ever coming close to even losing, but White's chances are preferable anyway."

footnote 18 on page 138:  a textless footnote, containing analysis of the critical opening stages of three games from a Marshall-Capablanca thematic match in the Max Lange Attack.

footnote 53 on page 195:  "21 Rad1 Rad8 =+ (Black's advantage in space offers him the better prospects, but White's control over the dark squares makes the position double-edged in a strategic sense.) 22.Qc1 Rxd1 23.Nxd1 (23.Rxd1?! would let Black break the blockade with 23...e3-+) 23...Qa5!? (Black intends to prevent the installation of the knight on e3 as long as possible, but maybe 23...Ba6=+ followed by Bd3 would be more promising) 24.Nc3 Qb4 25.Qd2 Re6 26.a3 Qb6 27.b4 Qa6!? (27...Rd6?! 28.Qf4+=) 28.Qd8+ Kh7 29.Qd7 Qxa3 (29...Qc6!? was recommended by Blatny but it is not clear why Black should be better after 30.Qd4 f5 [30...e3 31.f3] 31.b5) 30.Qxb7 Qxc3 31.Rxe4= 0.5-0.5, Golubev-Malaniuk, Alushta 1994."

footnote 37 on page 222:  "This standard plan is the simplest.  Transferring the knight on e6 starting with 10...Na4 11.Be2 Nc5 is a natural alternative, although it implies some loss of time....[A line is given with several alternatives analyzed, including game cites and evaluations.  The line contains the following two interior comments:  "(The redeployment initiated by this move is more efficident than 16...Bb7 17.Bc3 +=, Grosar-I. Sokolov, Portoroz 1993)" and "(The bishop should be ready to neutralize Black's pressure along the h1-a8 diagonal with Be4 and, eventually, put pressure on the e6-knight by means of a further Bd5.)"]...[A final fragment and evaluation, plus game citation]..."Black's pressure against the enemy queenside offers some compensation for White's activity in the centre."

foonote 4 on page 263:  "Now 16.Nf5 is less effective because after 16...g6 17.Ne3 (17.Ng3 does not really form part of White's plan, because it doesn't let him concentrate his forces around the e5-pawn) the e4-pawn would be permanently hanging.  True, the immediate capture on e4 would be strongly met by Ng4, but a simple move such as 17...Re7 keeps the position under control.  The e3-knight is denied access to both squares from where it could attack the e5-pawn."

*******************************************

In fact, a big majority of the foonotes to the ECO-style charts have textual comments in addtion to (and sometimes in lieu of) moves and evaluations.  I don't think Marin's use of these charts is so strange; I think that the ECO chart and footnotes is a very efficient way to organize moves and comments if you are trying to conserve space and pack in the maximum information into the minimum number of pages, and this is probably why Marin chose to use it.  The main problem I always had with ECO's approach to opening theory was the absence of textual explanations.  That is certainly not a problem with Marin's chosen format.

If you are wedded to a certain kind of format for opening books, this book is probably not for you.  However, if you have an open mind about formats and are willing to try anything that works, you might well find that Marin's format is superior to many of the options.  I find the ECO charts very useful for getting a quick visual fix on the main line variations (one of the best features of the ECO format is its clear and readily comprehensible organization of theory) , while the comprehensive footnotes display many of the best features of more traditionally formatted opening books (variations/evaluations interspersed with useful explanatory text).  Of course, reasonable minds can differ on such things.

Some comments were made about the problems associated with Marin advocating some drawing lines for Black in a repertoire book.  I have encountered only a handful of these "drawing lines" so far, although I have already spent many hours with this book.  In most instance where the repertoire recommendation might fairly be characterized as a "drawing line" a brief inspection of the footnotes will provide reasonable alternatives for Black that avoid the drawing line.  In a few cases where the main repertoire suggestion allows a forced draw that is difficult to avoid (e.g., after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3 Bb6 4.d4 exd4 5.cxd4 Bg4 6.Be3 NF6 7.Nc3, arguably the main line of the 4.c3 variation, Marin recommends 8...Nxe4!? as an equalizing measure; however, after 7.Nxe4 Qe7 8.Qd3 Bf5, White can force a draw with 11.Qb5+ Bd7 12.Qd3 Bf5 13.Qb5+, etc., as show in footnote 31), there are always fairly obvious alternatives (e.g., 8...d5 9.e5 Ne4 10.Bd3 f5!?, a line given by GM Davies, or even 7...d5!?, both of which appear to be fine for Black) that allow Black to avoid the draw if he needs or wants to win.  Marin might have saved the reader a little time by providing alternatives to the drawing lines in every case, but every repertoire book's choices need to be tweaked a bit by the reader to suit the reader's preferences and to avoid perfect predictability, so this is hardly a major criticism.

There are a few obvious omissions in the repertoire.  Some of these omissions have apparently been cured with the PDF file posted at the Quality Chess website.  The omitted lines are generally not particularly critical theoretically speaking (in fact they appear to be relatively minor lines), and the more critical theoretical lines (e.g., Scotch mainlines, Giuoco Piano, Exchange Ruy, Four Knights) are covered very thoroughly, with a substantial amount of original anaysis included.  However, it is fair to say that the proposed repertoire is in some ways incomplete, albeit not in a way that seriously detracts from the usefulness of the book.

There is also one strange inclusion.  For some reason Marin included the Exchange Ruy Lopez in this book, which is counter to the normal procedure of grouping 1.e4 e5 lines into two categories of Ruy and non-Ruy lines.   I am not sure of the reason for this, although Marin does suggest in his introduction to this section that the Exchange Variation is thematically very different from the Closed Ruy, and maybe this is his reason.  In any event, his coverage of the suggested repertoire (after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.0-0 f6 6.d4, Marin recommends 6...Bg4 as his main line) is excellent (193 footnotes to the two-page ECO-style chart, including over 31 pages [!] of footnotes, many of them containing lengthy textual explanations).

As is probably apparent from the above, my perception of this book is extremely positive.  At the end of the day, all formatting issues aside, the proof is in the pudding and the quality and depth of analysis and insightfulness of the explanations in Marin's book appear to be to be unusually good.  If I had to pick one opening book out of the many I have as being objectively best in terms of quality of analysis, orignality, and depth of explanation, it would probably be a close call between this book snd Dorian Rogozenko's Sveshnikov Reloaded.  Although the standards for opening books seem to have risen in recent years (I am old enough to remember the potboilers that were published in the '80s), these two stand out in my mind as being truly outstanding in virtually all material respects.  (No, I have no connection with Quality Chess.  My only communications with them were some disgruntled e-mails from me about a year ago regarding a book that didn't arrive soon enough for my tastes.)

Just my opinion (and an overly long one at that).

            -Geof



  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #144 - 05/17/07 at 10:42:03
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TalJechin wrote on 05/17/07 at 09:52:59:
I've never understood why GMs write on an opening and then give it up. - Wouldn't the writing process provide extra depth to the understanding of the opening in question, which should be an edge in an era when most players skip thru a few mainlines on their laptops just before the game...

Yes, of course, I really knew what I was doing with the Philidor whilst I was writing the book and I continued to play it during the further year or so it took to be typewritten and published. None of my opponents (even very strong ones) really knew how to play as White and I had a fantastic score with it. Once the book came out my results worsened as everyone started playing the better lines against me. This was in the good old pre-ChessBase days, of course.
I still like the opening but I soon get bored with playing one type of position ...! Smiley
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #143 - 05/17/07 at 10:00:33
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/15/07 at 22:39:35:
Antillian wrote on 05/15/07 at 17:14:48:
Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Davies' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines.

I can't help feeling it is more justified in the Spanish as the opening is objectively stronger.
A problem for me personally is that stronger players don't play many of these lesser 1 e4 e5 lines, I normally only face them when there is a substantial rating difference, and where I want to win.

Personally I feel that 1..e5 is the worst move to play against a much weaker opponent. I have quite some draws with it as white against stronger opposition (sometimes due to me being put on board 1). For starters there is the giuco with d3 and stuff from the vienna which is very drawish.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #142 - 05/17/07 at 09:52:59
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/16/07 at 22:14:27:
TalJechin wrote on 05/16/07 at 13:31:50:
How come you abandoned the Philidor? (i.e. if you have abandoned it?) Wouldn't an Antoshin or Hanham be perfect against players you need to beat? No forced draws, no boring 4 Knights etc, all pieces still on the board and not much theory either...

I stopped playing it after my book came out, and people started picking it up in bookstalls, then looking at it and finding the best line for White before playing me! One problem is that I don't much like the 1...d6 move order to get the Hanham (because of the ending) and the 'standard' move order allows 4 dxe5, which is a little awkward for Black.
Anyway, nowadays a serious player should change his opening repertoire every now and then to decieve his opponents.


I suppose you don't like giving up the centre with 3...exd4, but isn't there still d6, Nf6, Nbd7 = no ending - or don't you like white's g4 stuff?
I've never understood why GMs write on an opening and then give it up. - Wouldn't the writing process provide extra depth to the understanding of the opening in question, which should be an edge in an era when most players skip thru a few mainlines on their laptops just before the game...

Personally, I have the opposite problem - no one touches their e-pawns on the first move anymore.  Cry
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #141 - 05/16/07 at 22:14:27
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TalJechin wrote on 05/16/07 at 13:31:50:
How come you abandoned the Philidor? (i.e. if you have abandoned it?) Wouldn't an Antoshin or Hanham be perfect against players you need to beat? No forced draws, no boring 4 Knights etc, all pieces still on the board and not much theory either...

I stopped playing it after my book came out, and people started picking it up in bookstalls, then looking at it and finding the best line for White before playing me! One problem is that I don't much like the 1...d6 move order to get the Hanham (because of the ending) and the 'standard' move order allows 4 dxe5, which is a little awkward for Black.
Anyway, nowadays a serious player should change his opening repertoire every now and then to deceive his opponents.

Strategy_Rules wrote on 05/16/07 at 19:57:21:
I heard Marin recommends 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5 for black, does he give any analyses after the critical 4.fxe5 d6 5.exd6 Qxd6 ?

Yes, his mainline involves a sharp piece sac with an unclear assessment at the end.


« Last Edit: 05/17/07 at 10:33:15 by GMTonyKosten »  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #140 - 05/16/07 at 19:57:21
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I heard Marin recommends 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5 for black, does he give any analyses after the critical 4.fxe5 d6 5.exd6 Qxd6 ?

  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #139 - 05/16/07 at 13:31:50
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/15/07 at 22:39:35:
Antillian wrote on 05/15/07 at 17:14:48:
Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Davies' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines.

I can't help feeling it is more justified in the Spanish as the opening is objectively stronger.
A problem for me personally is that stronger players don't play many of these lesser 1 e4 e5 lines, I normally only face them when there is a substantial rating difference, and where I want to win.


How come you abandoned the Philidor? (i.e. if you have abandoned it?) Wouldn't an Antoshin or Hanham be perfect against players you need to beat? No forced draws, no boring 4 Knights etc, all pieces still on the board and not much theory either...
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #138 - 05/16/07 at 13:20:20
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I had a good look through the Scotch 4 Knights chapter yesterday, which is very good (although once again White can force a draw at the end of the mainline!!) but found it very annoying playing a move and then having to go to another page to read the note, then back to play the next move, then back to read the next note, ... etc. I hope I never see another book with this format in my life! Angry
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #137 - 05/15/07 at 22:39:35
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Antillian wrote on 05/15/07 at 17:14:48:
Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Davies' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines.

I can't help feeling it is more justified in the Spanish as the opening is objectively stronger.
A problem for me personally is that stronger players don't play many of these lesser 1 e4 e5 lines, I normally only face them when there is a substantial rating difference, and where I want to win.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #136 - 05/15/07 at 17:14:48
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Yep, this seems to be a curse of many repertoire books. Daives' "Play 1.e4 e5" also gives White the option of a  forced draw in one of the Ruy Lopez Keres lines. And many Pirc repertore books recommend lines against the Austrian Attack that give White the option of a forced draw. The recent "Ruy Lopez" A guide for Black" reccommends as its core defence one that gives White the option of forced repetition. But to be fair, here, at least the authors offer an alternative.  ( And of course all Caro-Kann books give White the option of a draw at will  Grin )

I think the question is as a writer, when you think a line is objectively the best option for Black, how do you go about reccommending another line which you don't believe in.  Undecided

Personally this "problem" has never been a problem for me since I never rely on any repertoire book as a complete solution.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #135 - 05/15/07 at 14:36:07
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/15/07 at 11:26:14:
I was browsing through two lines in the book yesterday and both main recommendations lead to a draw by repetition, although the book is definitely called 'Beating the Open games'!! Undecided
I have the impression that whilst the 'repertoire' is very correct, and solid, many of the lines may only be of use against players with the same ELO or higher where you are happy with a half point.


It is indeed a vexed question on this board, how the prospect of a forced or very likely draw in some line should affect one's choice of system when conducting the black pieces.  There are those who say that it's useless to worry about this; others fret about it quite a bit.  I'll be d---ned if I have the answer.

Forced draws are more troublesome than dead positions, though, since one can always hope for an opponent's error in the latter.  I suppose if I were writing a repertoire book, I would suggest some ways of avoiding any forced draws into which my main variations led.
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #134 - 05/15/07 at 11:26:14
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I was browsing through two lines in the book yesterday and both main recommendations lead to a draw by repetition, although the book is definitely called 'Beating the Open games'!! Undecided
I have the impression that whilst the 'repertoire' is very correct, and solid, many of the lines may only be of use against players with the same ELO or higher where you are happy with a half point.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #133 - 05/13/07 at 18:49:48
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I meant having Black "threaten" a Marshall by playing 7...0-0 instead of 7...d6.  I would think that in a theoretical sense that may be the optimal move order, but it's hard for me to imagine that someone writing a (e.g.) Chigorin-based repertoire book would recommend it.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #132 - 05/13/07 at 18:15:07
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I recently got the book and I am not sure yet what to make of the format. Basically, Marin gives some games where he demonstrates the ideas, then he gives the ECO style table with the reccomended moves, followed by footnotes.

I am keeping an open mind as I make my way throught the book - I reserve judgment.

By the way, Klyemeister, what do u mean Marshall move order?
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #131 - 05/13/07 at 15:41:04
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I'll be interested to see what the follow-up volume (which I believe was at the printers' when I checked the publisher's website recently) is like.  I mean, can it really be a 300-page repertoire book on the Chigorin?  I guess it covers e.g. 9. d4 and delayed Bxc6, but still.  Okay, there are lines with d3, 5/6. d4 and the Worrall.  I don't suppose he recommends a Marshall move order, which would presumably bring in more stuff.  At least, I'm wondering about the page allotment.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #130 - 05/13/07 at 15:05:48
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I have just bought the Marin book, and I have to say I am surprised and a little bit disappointed! Sad
The way he has arranged the material is very strange and he gives too much space to lines that he rejects, and bad moves, in an attempt to show what one should avoid. For instance, in the Evans Gambit chapter he discusses 3 moves in some depth, and then devotes only two paragraphs to his favoured 4th move! There then follows an ugly ECO style section which deals solely with this 4th move  (7...Nge7). I would much have preferred to see the space given over to instructive games involving this move, with the alternatives consigned to small notes.
Still, there is obviously a lot of useful information to be gleaned from this, and I shall be bringing it with me to future tournaments!
Regarding 'false friends' I have to admit to employing more and more of these since moving to France a few decades ago, and I even sometimes find myself completely forgetting the English equivalent of a French word!
I do most of the editing on ChessPublishing and I can say that the 'House Style' is to allow any terms (or even misspelt words) if they sound sufficiently 'chessic', i.e. if their meaning would be completely understood by a chess player, or they are in fairly common use amongst chess players.
  
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #129 - 05/02/07 at 00:16:12
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Yeah I just saw it. I have to say I don't like reading two column documents in PDF!
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #128 - 05/02/07 at 00:12:11
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A Bishop´s Opening transposition and Belgrade Gambit are now available as an update to the book Beating the Open Games in Quality Chess site in news. 


I'm afraid that seems unclear to me. You mean it's available in a PDF file for download or the American (print) version will have it, or what?
  

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #127 - 05/01/07 at 12:31:05
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Willempie or Markovic PLEASE HELP!!




ECO, if you have it, is sufficient to fill in most of these minor possibilities that you say Marin leaves out.  Apparently Marin's book should be viewed as a wide-ranging discourse and not a completely comprehensive repertoire book.

1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.Nc3,Nf6 4.Bc4 and 4...Nxe4 is the best move, wiping out White's center pawn and conferring a slight space advantage on Black.  Standard then is 5. Nxe4 (not 5. Bxf7+ which only temporarily bothers Black and lets him build a massive pawn center) 5...d5  6. Bd3 dxe4  7. Bxe4.  Now 7...Bd6 is the main path, and Black has achieved at least equality.  Or Black can try Al Horowitz's tricky 7...Ne7!? when White's best is probably 8. c3.

After 4...Nxe4 White also has 5. 0-0 offering a Boden-Kieseritzky Gambit.  5...Nxc3 accepts, 5...Nd6 is, I believe, a safe way of declining, and 5...Be7!? is a move that was analyzed to equality in the 1916 edition of the Handbuch.  However 5...Be7  6. Nxe4 d5  7. Bd3 and White seems to have profited by the insertion of his 0-0 and Black's ...Be7.

I wasn't sure what you were talking about with your "Max Lange" idea; 4. Bc4 Nf6  5. d4 exd4  6. e5 has nothing to do with the Max, which arises from 5. 0-0 Bc5  6. e5.  But after 5. 0-0, Black is under no obligation to play 5...Bc5; 5...Nxe4 is entirely satisfactory.

Your 5. d4 exd4  6. e5 is usually called the "Modern Variation" and is White's most serious alternative to 4. Ng5!.  In the main line, 6...d5  7. Bb5 Ne4  8. Nxd4, White will double Black's c-pawns and try to blockade them by dominating c5 and d4, while also trying to arrange to kick back or exchage Black's knight and, if possible, arrange f4-f5.  Black often fights back with ...0-0 and ...f6.  Harding tried, without much success, to show that White is better; I don't think he believes that anymore.  But it's definitely a game of chess and a pretty respectable way for White to try to win.  There have been quite a few high-level games with it.

There's quite a bit of theory that both sides have to know.  For instance 8...Bc5!  9. Nxc6?! (9. 0-0?! 0-0!, 9. Be3!) 9...Bxf2+  10. Kf1 Qh4!  11. Qxd4 Bc5! and so forth.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #126 - 05/01/07 at 10:55:27
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A Bishop´s Opening transposition and Belgrade Gambit are now available as an update to the book Beating the Open Games in Quality Chess site in news.  Smiley
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #125 - 04/17/07 at 22:38:00
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Also, in the Martinek-Vajs line, Van der Tak recommends 23..Ne1 24.Ng3 Qf7 -/+.  I haven't looked at this, but Fritz seems to like it.

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Re: New 1...e5! book by Mikhail Marin!
Reply #124 - 04/17/07 at 22:16:20
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Emms recommended 21..Nh4 as his main line.  It's a draw after 22.Qf1 Nf3 23.Qg2 Nh4, etc,  But perhaps Black can try for more with 22..Be7!?

Emms also notes that Black can try for the full point with 21..Be7 22.g5 Qf5, but stops his analysis there with the verdict of unclear.

LeeRoth



  
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