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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book. (Read 5021 times)
MNb
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #13 - 07/21/06 at 02:59:40
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What about 8...Qa5, recommended by Keene?

See http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1153386391/0
  

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Keano
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #12 - 05/30/06 at 08:42:54
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I have seen that same mistake elsewhere in ChessBase databases and what have you - pity more players do not play this line and we could get a few free points!
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #11 - 05/25/06 at 21:40:42
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Maybe Nigel Davies meant ...Be7 instead of ...Bg7 when he originally wrote this?! Anyway, in general this position scores really abysmally for Black! Sad
  
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #10 - 05/19/06 at 17:05:08
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What about 11...h5?  I've seen some analysis of this by Gallagher and McDonald if I'm not mistaken.  Can't seem to remember it though.  Chessbase has 3 games with the move.
  
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #9 - 05/17/06 at 22:11:59
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1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6 gxf6 6 c3 Bf5 7 Nf3 Nd7 8 g3 Be4 9 Bg2 e6 10 0-0 f5 11 Re1 Be7

Naturally, 11 ... Bd6 is out, due to 12 Ng5 Nf6 (12 ... Bxg2 13 Qh5 effectively takes us to the horrors with which Markovich started this thread, the bishop on d6 is no better than on g7) 13 Nxe4 Nxe4 14 Qh5 looks miserable for Black (note the potential pin on the e6 pawn).

12 Bf4 Rg8
  

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HgMan
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #8 - 05/17/06 at 21:19:09
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Well, I don't mean to discredit 8 g3, or suggest that this line is fully playable for Black; as I mentioned earlier, I have never played this line, and likely never will.  But I can't help thinking that Black can make a go of this.  0-0-0 really is castling into it; with quick kingside attacks from White ruled out, I wonder if Black can't hold off on castling at all for the moment?  With bishops on g2 and f4 and the pawn rush a4 and b4-b5 to follow, perhaps the king can stay on e8 for the time being...

  

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Markovich
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #7 - 05/17/06 at 16:02:31
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Keano wrote on 05/17/06 at 15:43:13:
With the bishop passive on e7 it seems like 0-0-0 is Blacks only way to play, then in general terms we are into a slugfest where White is miles ahead as confirmed by years of practice - in general terms push the a-pawn, maybe the b-pawn also


Black's bishop needs to be on d6 if he plans to castle queenside, which is usual in this line.  It's suicide to do that with White's bishop unchallenged on f4.

I played this system as Black for some years with great success; it really was a good way for Black to play for a win.  But I stopped when it became apparent that g2-g3 was so strong.  In the April update, Andy Martin looks at Spassy-Larsen 1979, a game beautifully played by Larsen, and promotes 5...gxf6 without saying what Black should do about White's fianchetto.  That's why I was rummaging in the e-book.  The point of ...Be4 is supposed to be to castle kingside, thus avoiding the usual slugfest that emerges from 5...gxf6.  That is why ...Bg7 was later chosen.

...f5 and ...Nd7-f6 is indeed a motif in this system, but usually it's well-prepared so that White can't explot the consequent weakening of the dark squares.
  

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Keano
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #6 - 05/17/06 at 15:43:13
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With the bishop passive on e7 it seems like 0-0-0 is Blacks only way to play, then in general terms we are into a slugfest where White is miles ahead as confirmed by years of practice - in general terms push the a-pawn, maybe the b-pawn also
  
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HgMan
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #5 - 05/17/06 at 15:38:40
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1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6 gxf6 6 c3 Bf5 7 Nf3 Nd7 8 g3 Be4 9 Bg2 e6 10 0-0 f5 11 Re1 Be7

Funny: I can only find three games with this line.  Murray Chandler was on the White (and winning) side of this in 1982.  Alternatives to 10 ... f5 include 10 ... Be7 (which can transpose), 10 ... Qb6, 10 ... Qc7, and 10 ... h5.
  

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Keano
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #4 - 05/17/06 at 15:25:28
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11.Re1
  
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HgMan
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #3 - 05/17/06 at 15:11:42
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Well, I'm not a fan of this line of the Caro-Kann, but Markovich is right to point out that 10 ... Bg7?! 11 Re1 f5? 12 Ng5 is absolutely winning for White.  After 10 ... f5, White probably still has enough of an advantage to discourage Black (me, anyway) from playing 5 ... gxf6, but could be interpreted as "White's advantage is minimal."  Nothing's ever "out of business" for too long, and Black may yet find adequate resources in this line, but what about it?

1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Nf6 5 Nxf6 gxf6 6 c3 Bf5 7 Nf3 Nd7 8 g3 Be4 9 Bg2 e6 10 0-0 f5

What is White's best here?
  

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Keano
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #2 - 05/17/06 at 14:57:56
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I´m not sure there exists a "correct move order" here. This is the line that put ...gxf6 out of business
  
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HgMan
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Re: Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
Reply #1 - 05/17/06 at 11:12:56
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12 ... Bxg2 loses on the spot.  12 ... Nf6 loses a pawn and then some.  You're right: 11 ... f5? is terrible, which puts the question to 10 ... Bg7?!  But what about 10 ... f5 ?  Perhaps this is the correct move order.  11 Ng5 doesn't pack the same bite, and Black should be okay...
  

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Markovich
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Caro 5...gxf6: book error in e-book.
05/17/06 at 02:12:47
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The e-book on the Caro, available to subscribers on this website, contains the following book error:

1. e4 c6  2. d4 d5  3. Nc3 dxe4  4. Nxd4 Nf6  5. Nxf6 gxf6  6. c3 Bf5  7. Nf3 Nd7  8. g3! Be4 "!?"  9. Bg2 e6  10. 0-0 Bg7  11. Re1 f5 "and White's advantage is minimal."  Wrong.  12. Ng5! refutes Black's idea, in view of 12...Bxg7?  13. Qh5.
  

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