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Poll closed Question: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
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7 f4 Bg7 8 Bb5+    
  17 (81.0%)
7 h3 intending an MML    
  1 (4.8%)
7 Bf4    
  1 (4.8%)
other    
  2 (9.5%)




Total votes: 21
« Last Modified by: IMRichardPalliser on: 05/29/06 at 20:31:33 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular? (Read 20117 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #30 - 07/09/06 at 21:17:03
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ChessPub has helped me yet again!  Well, I don't know if it's actually helped or hurt yet.

After some of the discussion that occurred on this thread, I have recommended the (pure) Modern Benoni to a player who has been struggling to find any active play out of the opening against 1.d4. 

He's still trying it out but reports that at the 1600-1700 level on ICC, White usually shrinks away from d5 and Black gets a comfortable position.  He has played several dozen games and has yet to reach any pure Modern Benoni's.   

Maybe White is afraid of the Modern Benoni at the club level!
  
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snakebite
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #29 - 07/04/06 at 11:06:00
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I play the Nimzo and QID after 1 d4. I am considering playing the Benoni instead of the QID - I just feel that some of the QID positions are a little too equal for my liking and would like a position with a bit more life in where I would feel more confident of outplaying a weaker player once theory ended. One of the big plus points from my point of view is that the Benoni has only one pawn structure from Black's perspective. I feel that this would make it easier to study as I can go into much greater depth when studying it. This will help when coping with deviations too as I'll have more knowledge/understanding of typical plans and how deviations will affect this. There are two reasons why I probably won't play the Benoni after 3 Nc3 - even though this would avoid having to learn numerous pawn structures in the Nimzo. Firstly, lines with f4 and Nge2 etc tend to be quite sharp and harder to defend. However, studying the themes are still important as even Benoni players e.g. Chris Ward who play it only after Nf3 are bound to have faced a position where white has played f4 at some point. Secondly, fashion. Lots of people say the Benoni is risky after Nc3 if f4 follows. Who am I to disagree with this body of theory. I know club players up to 200BCF who only play the Benoni after Nf3. Even if there is nothing wrong with Blacks position  all these people must have some reasons for disliking it.
« Last Edit: 07/05/06 at 08:28:35 by snakebite »  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #28 - 07/03/06 at 00:02:08
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Alias wrote on 06/27/06 at 09:24:54:
Smyslov_Fan: What did you think about the Benoni's in the US Championship? Shulman-Shabalov and Onischuk-Nakamura were exciting games.



I'm sorry, I haven't studied them yet.  I'll defer writing initial responses until I've looked a little deeper.
  
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #27 - 07/02/06 at 23:54:47
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Thanks IM Palliser for covering 9.Nf3!? and 9.a4 in this months update.  Looks like there's still life in these variations for Black even if it is quite complicated.
  
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #26 - 06/28/06 at 20:25:01
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Actually, the Modern Benoni was one of the openings I picked up very easily.  I liked the half-open e-file, the latent power of the fianchettoed bishop, and Black's queenside prospects.  I had considerable success with it until I started drifting away from it in correspondence chess, when prepared players were targeting "problem" lines almost ten years ago.  At club level, I found it sharp and attractive, though I didn't play it frequently enough to really claim any real mastery of it...
  

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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #25 - 06/28/06 at 16:22:16
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Quote:
As highlighted by Frendo, what do people make of the MB's popularity at club level? I'd also be interested to hear. Alumbrado elsewhere has my sympathies, but did make some excellent points about why more players should play the MB!

The reason why it is not popular at club(read my) level is that unlike a nimzo/QI, QG or even KI, the black setup is not that logical to the eyes. Furthermore it takes quite some time to learn the MB and as 1 d4 2.c4 is certainly not the most frequent at my level it is quite a matter of inefficient spending of time. Ie this season out of about 40 games as black only 3 featured this, which is equal to the amount of me facing the english and the annoying d4 openings (tromp and the likes). This is also the reason many club players give up the Budapest and even the Volga gambit as white players tend to avoid it.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #24 - 06/28/06 at 14:28:59
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As highlighted by Frendo, what do people make of the MB's popularity at club level? I'd also be interested to hear. Alumbrado elsewhere has my sympathies, but did make some excellent points about why more players should play the MB!
  
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #23 - 06/27/06 at 13:11:11
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Quote:
So what exactly is putting people off 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 c5, intending 3 d5 e6 4 Nc3 exd5 5 cxd5 d6 6 e4 g6? Despite John Watson's efforts to show Black can fight against the Taimanov, most GMs still only reach the MB via 2...e6 3 Nf3 c5. I just hope more club players are returning to playing 2...c5!


That's IM R.Palliser's original question so he was talking about most GM's.  I guess he believes (or fears) that this is putting off a lot of club players too.  I just haven't been to enough tournaments lately to really know.  It be interesting to hear from those who frequent the tournament scene.
  
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #22 - 06/27/06 at 12:47:07
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Alias wrote on 06/27/06 at 09:24:54:
Personally, I think MB and KID are not so popular at club level because they're not popular at top level. Why they're not popular at top level, I don't know.


At club level, any normal opening is playable regardless of its suitibility.

At top level (what level are we talking about here, 2700+?), maybe it's just fashion, or maybe it's a trend to move away from openings that give away space.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #21 - 06/27/06 at 12:18:05
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I was under the impression that both the King's Indian and the Modern Benoni were popular at club level.  They both seem like good choices for enterprising club players.  I agree that the MB doesn't have the flexibility of the KID but I can understand why someone still might prefer it.  Just as one example I don't recall in MB variations like the KID ones where Black plays ...e5 and queens come right off.  Gallagher has argued of course that Black can still play those positions for a win but no less a player than Markovich has found that to be a problem win playing for a win.  (Correct me if I'm wrong Markovich.)  I personally have only played the KID but I'm often tempted to take up the MB (I think it requires even more courage!).  One last note: when I refer to the MB here I am refering to the pure move order.
  
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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #20 - 06/27/06 at 09:24:54
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Smyslov_Fan: What did you think about the Benoni's in the US Championship? Shulman-Shabalov and Onischuk-Nakamura were exciting games.

Personally, I think MB and KID are not so popular at club level because they're not popular at top level. Why they're not popular at top level, I don't know.
  

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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #19 - 06/27/06 at 08:34:21
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and one might add, on top of it all......that while the kid is indeed a very challenging opening for black at times, it has a universality that the _modern_ benoni does not......and who really wants to find themselves trying to play a mb and ending up on the black side of a schmid.  that universality (you can use it against the english, d4 oddities, etc.......if you are really stubborn, i think they call it a pirc when you play it against 1.e4) gives it an appeal to the time-challenged tournament player that the mb cant match.


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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #18 - 06/25/06 at 13:15:11
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The final nail in the coffin of the British Empire?   Wink
  

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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #17 - 06/25/06 at 09:27:33
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/24/06 at 23:54:24:
alumbrado wrote on 06/22/06 at 13:37:40:
I would actually go further than that and say that you can play the MB up to a really quite high level and against reasonably knowledgeable opponents without knowing all that much theory, as long as you have a good understanding of the ideas and recurring motifs.


As opposed to "non-recurring motifs"? Wink


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Re: Why isn't the pure Modern Benoni more popular?
Reply #16 - 06/24/06 at 23:54:24
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alumbrado wrote on 06/22/06 at 13:37:40:
I would actually go further than that and say that you can play the MB up to a really quite high level and against reasonably knowledgeable opponents without knowing all that much theory, as long as you have a good understanding of the ideas and recurring motifs.




As opposed to "non-recurring motifs"? Wink

White has just as many strong themes as Black does, and often can play "book" moves without knowing the latest theory.  I used to play the Black side of the Modern Benoni until I realised I kept preferring the White side, even when both sides were deep into the middle game.

I like the Benoni in part because, except for the Taimanov/Flick-knife/whatever you want to call that variation, the person who has the better grasp of the Benoni themes will usually win the game.  This seems to hold true for games between club players as well as games between IMs.  (I don't see that many games between 2600+ opponents.  hmmmm.)
  
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