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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C03,C10: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Qd5!? (Read 7244 times)
AngelPortal
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #10 - 11/07/06 at 10:46:54
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I dont remember hearing this line.
I will take a look in my books to check this.
Tomorrow I will have some ideas!
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FelixTheCat
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dom
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #9 - 11/01/06 at 08:08:34
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After 5.Ng3 Black can play 5..c5 which equalizes immediatly because White has no advantage in development and Black can easily attack the pawn center.

Useful is to compare with main line of Tarrasch with c5 for Black: in the main line, White has an advantage in development using an attack versus Black queen.
  

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fancies
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #8 - 10/21/06 at 15:56:30
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Dzambus wrote on 05/29/06 at 12:03:22:
8arms wrote on 05/27/06 at 19:23:00:
Your discussions on this sideline would be much appreciated ...


I played this line as Black, but stopped. Because of 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Qg4!? 
Do you know how to survive as Black in that line?


Once I played this line with great sucess :
6) ...Nc6 7)Nf3 Ne7 8) Qg7 Rg8 9)Qh7 e5 ( threatening Bf5 in the next moves, White should watch out )10) Bd2 Bc3 11) Bc3 ed4 12) Nd4 Nd4 13) 0-0-0 Qg5 14) Kb1 ? Bf5 0-1

Which strong line did you meet after Qg4 ? Any examples ?
  
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8arms
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #7 - 09/18/06 at 07:48:02
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Okay, 5. Bd3 and 5. Nc3 are possibilities for White however what does Black do if White plays 5. Ng3?
  
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dom
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #6 - 08/19/06 at 08:35:36
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I agree with first point: 5.Bd3!? Nf6 6.f3 needs more analysis and I have only the reply 6...Na6 in the same game Worotnikow-Dvoretski,1972 (Kuligowski, ECG=Encyclopedy of Chess Games).

After 5.Bd3!? I prefer to follow the line given by Khalifman (always the same book, Opening Refertoire for White, mentionned in other forum threads): 5...Nc6 6.Nf3 Nf6 (6.c3 e5! Mitkov-Sulava,Kladovo 1991 (Khalifman)) 7.Nxf6 gxf6 8.Bf4 Bd7 9.c4!? (9.c3 ; 9.Bc7) Kuzmin,A-Muratov,V/Moscow 1988

Comparing with 5...Nf6 given above, White doesn't play the "weird" move f3 but strategy for Black is the same: long castle and avoid loosing tempi moving the queen.

Second point: 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Qg4 Nc6 7.Nf3 I only recorded 7..Kf8 8.Bd2 Bxc3 9.bxc3 e5 10.Qh4 Bf5 11.c4 Qe4+ 12.Qxe4 Bxe4 13.d5 Gelfer-Czerniak,Israel 1980 (Kuligowski) with small advantage for White.
  

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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #5 - 08/16/06 at 00:51:37
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I've got the SOS book, got it two months ago. Two things about it, I'd like to mention. The Katalymov variation (3...dxe4 4.Nxe4 Qd5!?) runs into 5.Bd3. Black cannot take the d pawn because of the cheapo discovery. The article by Bosch then gives 5...Nf6. If white takes the Knight, there follows gxf6 will play somewhat similar to the Bronstein-Larsen Caro. Black will try to mate white along the gfile, or at least pressure him. 

The problem is that white can thrown in 6.f3! I know, looks weird. Believe me it works out somewhat nicely for white. Black doesn't want to take because it'll strengthen white's center. White will also develop the dark squared bishop to e3 and everything is hunky-dory as white's development gives him a plus. Basically all he'd need do is find the correct plan. That's if black plays my idea of Nbd7. Fritz seems to like Be7, but that makes little difference, I think. Only a computer could really defend these positions as they are really passive and difficult, and white might even get in c4. No tactical crush, just a big white center and development. The master praxis is even worse. Bosch recommends 6...Na6 in response (look it up@chessbase) as in Vorotnikov-Dvoretsky, Beltsy 1972. He neglects to mention that black lost. Black was down a pawn and white was very active. Black is trying to mate white in that variation but doesn't quite have enough. 

Frankly, it offends me that writers put the most challenging lines down as side lines, or give them scant analysis. 

The second issue is that he doesn't really analyse 6.Qg4 either. He gives 6...Nc6. White can't take the g pawn because then Black would take the d pawn. I figured that out, he didn't mention why Nc6 stops Qxg7 -- a minor point perhaps but representative of Bosch's problems. He then says if white plays ***Qg4, after black plays Nc6 7.Nf3 Nge7 8.Qxg7 Rg8 9.Qxh7 e5 with Bf5 and 0-0-0 "to follow" for Black. I don't what you guys think but he could have put a little more original analysis there, gone a little longer.

Plus, this line could be really useful in the exchange French move order, where the knight doesn't go to e4, and Bb4 pinning the knight on c3 gives more unbalanced positions. Unfortunately, he doesn't deal with the specifics or the differences from that move order, such as 4.c4.
  

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French2006
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #4 - 06/16/06 at 07:09:07
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Thinking about 8arms's reply, and wondering ( also without looking at the board Smiley) why cant white accept  the gift and take on g7? What does black have as compensation?
  
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #3 - 06/16/06 at 03:46:03
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I was looking in the book store the other day and saw that the latest volume of SOS (NIC about surprised in the opening) #4 gave this line. I did not pick it up, but maybe it has some info.
  
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8arms
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #2 - 05/30/06 at 07:56:27
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@Dzambus - very interesting move, 6. Qg4!?, just wondering (without looking at a board) whether 6... Ne7 is any good with the intention of playing ...Rg8 if White plays Qxg7 at any stage.
  
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Dzambus
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Re: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Qd5!?
Reply #1 - 05/29/06 at 12:03:22
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8arms wrote on 05/27/06 at 19:23:00:
Your discussions on this sideline would be much appreciated ...


I played this line as Black, but stopped. Because of 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Qg4!? 
Do you know how to survive as Black in that line?
  
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8arms
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C03,C10: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Qd5!?
05/27/06 at 19:23:00
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Your discussions on this sideline would be much appreciated ...
« Last Edit: 07/31/11 at 09:23:02 by dom »  
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