Latest Updates:
Poll
Poll Question: C01: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is best
bars   pie

4...Nf6 The GM choice    
  5 (25.0%)
4...Bd6    
  5 (25.0%)
4...Bg4    
  4 (20.0%)
4...c6    
  0 (0.0%)
4...Nc6    
  5 (25.0%)
some other rubbish    
  1 (5.0%)




Total votes: 20
« Last Modified by: dom on: 08/01/11 at 17:15:29 »
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C01:1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 what best (Read 4650 times)
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1683
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #13 - 06/02/06 at 14:04:08
Post Tools
Well I'm sure Mr.Watson had something in mind.  Let's see, should just take me a couple of seconds to come up with something brilliant.  Hmmm, er, uh...,well I suppose if you want to get all logical and objective then White does have an edge.  This Kasparov guy you say that played this just might have a future.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
YaBB Moderator
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #12 - 06/02/06 at 03:31:45
Post Tools
Beautiful graphic, Klick!

I have no idea why Black would aim for a position in which his king-side is completely undeveloped and he has no concrete attack that I can see.  Other than that, I can't explain why the position you show hasn't been played.  Wink

(I don't think trading the only two pieces Black has developed on c2 for a R+P after Rd2 is an attack.  White also has the very boring Ne1 when Black still has no real claim to equality.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #11 - 06/01/06 at 20:52:08
Post Tools
I already have it and I agree that it`s a good book. I assume that it is the following you have in mind?

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd exd 4.Nf3 Bg4 5.h3 Bh5 6.Qe2+! Qe7 7.Be3 Nc6 8.Nc3 0-0-0 9.g4 Bg6 10. 0-0-0 Nb4!?



According to the Chesslab database, nobody has tried it since the book was published.  I`m not sure what to say about this line. I can`t say I am overly excited about it yet.
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1683
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #10 - 06/01/06 at 20:10:30
Post Tools
Well I had in mind the analysis given by Watson in his "Play the French".  I don't have access to that now.  It's a great book so if you don't have it you should get it.  I think one idea involved playing ...Nb4 but I can't remember the details unfortunately.

I should also mention Chesspublishing.com has some suggestions for Black in this variation (4...Bg4) as well as analysis on 4...Nf6, 4...Bd6, 4...Nc6, as well as 4...c5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #9 - 06/01/06 at 17:10:53
Post Tools
What is Black`s best line vs. Kasparov`s Qe2+ Frendo?
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1683
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #8 - 05/30/06 at 15:27:05
Post Tools
I think every move you listed gives Black an equal game if followed up correctly.  I have both played and studied 4.Nf3 but I don't think White can expect any advantage with it.  I never looked at 4...Bf5, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were fully adequate as well, it is a natural move.  If I were Black playing for the win I think I would lean towards 4...Bg4.  Black has improvements over what Kasparov faced years ago.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2886
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #7 - 05/30/06 at 08:08:54
Post Tools
Thanks for posting links Klick - I noticed a nice constructive suggestion from TopNotch "Play The Dragon", not sure the degree of sarcasm involved in that one!

Actually I think the exchange with 4.Nf3 is a perfectly viable way for White to play (Kasparov played it!), if Black needs to win at all costs maybe he should break symmetry with ....Bd6. Then after 5.c4 there is a choice - play that position after ...dxc4 that also comes from QGA and is not actually so bad  Wink  or else play 5...c6!? intending to play ...Ne7 and we have disrupted the cosy pattern.

The reality is I play the French and never has a strong (master) player played the exchange against me so what usually happens is that I outplay weaker players as Black, but objectively I think we have to accept this could theoretically give White an edge - we need more strong players willing to take up the cause ...then again why should they? the Advance, Tarrasch and Nc3 probably all offer better chances of an advantage.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10411
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #6 - 05/30/06 at 01:34:39
Post Tools
[quote author=Uberdeker link=1148915570/0#1 date=1148921628]In Alekhine's opinion, Black always has the chance to complicate the game in the French Exchange, despite White's peaceful intentions.
4. ...Bd6 usually followed by ...Kte7/...c6/...Bf5 or ...Bg4 in some order should give Black a good game.
4. ...Bg4 is also an enterprising continuation, though I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it has certain specific drawbacks. Should take a closer look sometime.

From the viewpoint of fighting for the initiative with Black, I regard 4. Bd3 as being more troublesome than 4. Ktf3. [/quote]

Here I fully agree. 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Bd6 6.Nge2 Qh4!? or Qe7 followed by Bg4 and castling queenside is a plan, which came from Alekhine. It is sharp and Black has done well in practice. After 4.Nf3 I prefer Bf5. As this is not rubbish, I have not voted. It cannot be bad to activate the only problem piece.
I think 4.c4 is White's best try, but then play is certainly not symmetrical and boring anymore.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #4 - 05/29/06 at 17:21:43
Post Tools
And by the way Martino, I don`t agree that it`s boring   Wink
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #3 - 05/29/06 at 17:20:28
Post Tools
This is an interesting question. I`ve voted for the move I play, but I am not sure it can be called "best". Maybe people could support their views with some general ideas on how play should develop and why they choose the 4th move they do?

I`ve opted for 4...Nc6, aiming for the Bayonet attack (see another thread on this).. I decided not to play 4..Bd6 because of 5.c4 and not 4...Bg4 because of Kasparovs later Qe2+, although I haven`t studied this.

The drawback to 4...Nc6 is that 5.Bb5 Bd6 6.c4 dc 7.d5 a6 quickly can lead to a draw if white so wishes.

My games usually goes something like 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3. exd exd 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Bd3 Bd6 (I used to try Nb5 here with Bf5 following if white moves the bishop. I was inspired by a game by Volkov where he played this, but I now think that black should wait.) 6.0-0 Nge7. An example of how play can continue is 7.Bg5 Bg4 8.c3 Qd7 9.Nbd2  Now there is an interesting question how black should continue his game: ..0-0-0, or ..f6 , or..0-0
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2886
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #2 - 05/29/06 at 17:15:33
Post Tools
4.Nf3 I think is the only serious way for White to play the exchange variation. I dont like saying it but probably 4...Nf6 is objectively best after we wade through all the subjective bias us French fans have
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uberdecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 619
Joined: 03/21/06
Re: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 - what is be
Reply #1 - 05/29/06 at 16:53:48
Post Tools
In Alekhine's opinion, Black always has the chance to complicate the game in the French Exchange, despite White's peaceful intentions.
4. ...Bd6 usually followed by ...Kte7/...c6/...Bf5 or ...Bg4 in some order should give Black a good game.
4. ...Bg4 is also an enterprising continuation, though I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it has certain specific drawbacks. Should take a closer look sometime.

From the viewpoint of fighting for the initiative with Black, I regard 4. Bd3 as being more troublesome than 4. Ktf3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Martino
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 6
Joined: 05/29/06
C01:1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 what best
05/29/06 at 15:12:50
Post Tools
Its the boring choice from White...proceed
« Last Edit: 08/01/11 at 17:22:49 by dom »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo