Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Exciting QID lines (Read 8302 times)
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #18 - 10/09/06 at 18:51:09
Post Tools
I just noticed that Carsten Hansen has written a really tiny review of the Cox-book at chesscafe. He likes the book: http://www.chesscafe.com/hansen/hansen.htm
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #17 - 10/09/06 at 18:25:27
Post Tools
Eric.. the Nimzo/QID must be the best responses to queen-pawn openings, so don't consider dropping them because of some d-pawn deviation! It is true that e6 on the second move takes away some options for black when facing for instance the London or Colle, but these systems for white are hardly critical and it should not come as a surprise that black has good ways to counter them even after 2...e6!

I have the Cox-book and I think it is good, so if you are worried about the deviations against NID/QID you should consider getting that one.

I am happy to discuss these lines in another thread if someone decides to make one.


Going back to the QID: I mentioned the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.a3 Bb7 5.Nc3 g6 earlier. After 6.Qc2 (trying to force through e4) Bxf3 is an important line.






Having had a closer look at the Yrjola/Tella book it seems to "recommend" (according to evaluations) 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.a3 Ba6 5.Qc2 Bb7 6.Nc3 c5 7.e4 (d5 is unsound) cxd 8.Nxd Nc6 9.Nxc6 Bxc6



  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #16 - 10/09/06 at 09:17:24
Post Tools
I havent got around buying it yet, but there is a book dealing with d4 deviations by Cox. Iirc it deals with all these lines from a nimzo-QID player's perspective.

Personally I am of the opinion that 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 should be punished by 2..b5 (or on the 3rd move). It cant be bad against these "crap-systems" and it will certainly annoy all those chaps who try to trick you into other lines by delaying c4.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2477
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #15 - 10/08/06 at 20:56:49
Post Tools
Hi guys, as the starter of this thread I thought I should get back into it!  I've basically been pleased with my investigations of the QID so far (based on the Yrjola & Tella book), though I haven't started playing it yet.  My main concern at the moment may sould like a silly one, but...

I don't know how to play against all the various "crap" systems White can employ.  It seems to me that the QID/Nimzo move order is the worst when it comes to facing the London, Torre, Colle, etc.  Against some of these systems I'd like the option to play ...g6, and against others I'd rather not have played ...e6 yet.  For instance, against the London I'd like to play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 c5, but of course this isn't available in the QID move order.  More or less the same reasoning applies to the Colle.

I realize it sounds crazy to not play the Nimzo/QID because of how I'd have to meet the London/Colle/Torre/Tromp, etc., but...at my level in the U.S. I'd estimate that about half of my opponents play these systems after 1.d4.  This wouldn't be so bad in itself, but since almost all of the players are rated about 200 points below me, I often find myself (after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bf4 or the like) struggling to win from a very equal position.  I know there's some saying about it being easier to win from an equal position than from an inferior one, but I always wish that I'd played the KID, Dutch, or even just something like 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.e3 c5.

« Last Edit: 10/09/06 at 15:41:03 by ErictheRed »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #14 - 10/08/06 at 20:28:48
Post Tools
Klick wrote on 10/08/06 at 11:21:00:
In his review of Peter Wells' book "Chess explained: The queens indian", Jeremy Silman writes

Quote:
Though it's only 127 pages, this is the best book on the Klick0 that I've ever seen. Everyone will find the prodigious amounts of instructive prose to be extremely useful, while Peter Wells' coverage of all major lines is light but to the point.


I don't have the book, but it got a great review and from what I know Peter Wells generally produces quality work.

Full review: http://jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/js_Chess_Explained_Queens_Indian.html

I have the book and posted a short review in another thread here. Basically I say the same as Silman Wink
A major advantage of this book is that it covers all lines as far as I can tell plus it gives you more than enough info to play them. This has the advantage for me as a black player that I can understand all the lines first and then pick from them based on the info. With all the repertoire books you miss the first part. This should also be very useful to white players as I think it is a very common defense and it is better to see the various lines iso just being told to play say 4.a3 because "it is more active" or somesuch.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Meat
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 184
Joined: 06/27/06
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #13 - 10/08/06 at 12:05:28
Post Tools
Quote:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144648015;start=all gives some discussion of White's point of view.


Thanks! Too bad I wasn't able to find the magic bullet against the QID there, but that's probably because there is none.
I will gives the lines with 4.g3 a go, as I wasn't very succesful with 4. a3.

Quote:
Though it's only 127 pages, this is the best book on the 3 that I've ever seen. Everyone will find the prodigious amounts of instructive prose to be extremely useful, while Peter Wells' coverage of all major lines is light but to the point.


Sounds pretty good. I guess I should consider buying that book (or the one by Yrola) as I'm struggeling quite a bit against the QI.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #12 - 10/08/06 at 11:21:00
Post Tools
In his review of Peter Wells' book "Chess explained: The queens indian", Jeremy Silman writes

Quote:
Though it's only 127 pages, this is the best book on the 4 that I've ever seen. Everyone will find the prodigious amounts of instructive prose to be extremely useful, while Peter Wells' coverage of all major lines is light but to the point.


I don't have the book, but it got a great review and from what I know Peter Wells generally produces quality work.

Full review: http://jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/js_Chess_Explained_Queens_Indian.html
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #11 - 10/07/06 at 01:19:58
Post Tools
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144648015;start=all gives some discussion of White's point of view.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Meat
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 184
Joined: 06/27/06
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #10 - 10/07/06 at 00:54:05
Post Tools
Let me ask this question from the other side of the board:

How does white play against the QID??
Should I play the systems with 4. a3 or rather 4. g3?
After a3 I've had trouble against 4. Ba6 and even in the main line I was hardly able to create any winning chances.
And in the variations with g3 I like the stuff involving Ba6 b3 Bb4+ when white gets to play for the e4 break and the game is usually very dynamic, but my opponents simply play the line with Bb7 and it gets very dry so I have trouble finding any advantage.

What do you guys think? What is the most promising line against the QID?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Klick
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 528
Joined: 01/31/03
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #9 - 10/06/06 at 15:39:16
Post Tools
Hello Eric. It's been some time since the last post was made in this thread, but I'll revive it. I guess by now you've investigated a few lines and maybe even bought some of the books. If you haven't, here are my thoughts:

John Emms' book is good (giving a general overview), but aimed at a much lower level than yours. You should get the Yrjola & Tella book and only buy the John Emms book if you really want to spend the money.



I'm getting at the QID from the same angle as you: I want something solid, yet from which I can play for a win. So far I've decided to investigate 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.a3 g6. It looks promising to play this way. So far I haven't seen anything that puts me off.

Against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 I will play Ba6 and on 5.b3 b5. After all, I want to win every game of chess I play. I'll probably have a look at a couple of 7...Na6 Tiviakov games later on.

It would be nice to hear what your (and anyone elses) thoughts are a couple of months after your original post. As far as I can see this is the only thread that adressess these lines.
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2323
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #8 - 06/01/06 at 21:06:06
Post Tools
I'd second Ptero's recommendation that you look at Tiviakov's 7 ... Na6 lines.  There should be the beginnings of a discussion of that on another thread.

I like Yrjola & Tella's book, and recommend it.  I'm not a huge fan of the Starting Out series, but I do typically like John Emms's books very much, and I think his book on the QID is likely worth working through before moving on to Yrjola & Tella...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2477
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #7 - 06/01/06 at 20:52:10
Post Tools
Thank you Ptero, that's exactly the sort of info I was looking for!  I'll take a look at those lines when I get home.

Didn't Romanishin (or was it Adorjan?) play a system with 5...g6 against the Petrosian?  I'll look into that when I get home, too.

Also, what are the best QID books?  My Elo is 2100 (USCF) and my current goal is to make 2200 (hence I'm re-evaluating my opening repertoire, among other things).  I've heard great things about Yrjola's book, and I assume that Starting Out: the QID will be a little too basic for me, though you never know.  I've never been much of a fan of Aagaard, and Lalic's book looks too dry to me.  Hhmm...did I just answer my own question?!? Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ptero
Full Member
***
Offline


When all else fails, read
the instructions.

Posts: 220
Joined: 03/22/06
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #6 - 06/01/06 at 19:57:18
Post Tools
Against 4.a3 I've been playing 4...Bb7, but recently took a look at 4...Ba6!?, for instance 5.Qc2 Bb7 6.Nc3 c5 7.e4 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Nb3 Nc6.
Micky Adams has won some nice games in this variation and I am looking forward to give it a try myself (though my likely oppsition will be somewhat less imposing Smiley)

[Event "Bundesliga 2002/03"]
[Site "Germany"]
[Date "2002"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Khenkin Igor (GER)"]
[Black "Adams Michael (ENG)"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "E12"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.a3 Ba6 5.Qc2 Bb7 6.Nc3 c5 7.e4 cxd4
8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Nb3 Nc6 10.Bg5 h6 11.Bh4 Nd4 12.Nxd4 Bxd4 13.Bd3
Qb8 14.Bg3 Be5 15.O-O-O O-O 16.Kb1 d6 17.Bxe5 dxe5 18.Qe2 Rd8
19.Qe3 Rd4 20.f3 Ba6 21.b3 Qc7 22.Kb2 Rad8 23.Ne2 R4d7 24.Bc2
b5 25.c5 b4 26.axb4 Rb8 27.Bd3 Bxd3 28.Rxd3 Rxb4 29.Rc1 Qc6 30.Rd6
Rxd6 31.cxd6 Qxd6 32.Qxa7 Nd7 33.Qc7 Qd3 34.Qc2 Nc5 35.Qxd3 Nxd3+
36.Kc3 Nxc1 37.Nxc1 Rb8 38.Nd3 Rc8+ 39.Kd2 f6 40.g4 g5 41.b4
Kf7 42.Nc5 Ke7 43.Kc3 h5 44.gxh5 Rh8 45.b5 Kd6 46.Nb7+ Kc7 47.Nc5
Rxh5 48.Nxe6+ Kb6 49.Kc4 Rh3 50.Nc5 Rxf3 51.Na4+ Kb7 52.Kd5 Rf2
53.h3 Rf3 54.Ke6 Rxh3 55.Nc5+ Kc8 56.Kxf6 g4 57.Ne6 g3 58.Ng5
Rh1 59.Kxe5 g2 60.Nf3 Rf1 0-1

[Event "It 'Eurotel World Chess Trophy'"]
[Site "Prague (Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2002"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Radjabov Teimour (AZE)"]
[Black "Adams Michael (ENG)"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "E12"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.a3 Ba6 5.Qc2 Bb7 6.Nc3 c5 7.e4 cxd4
8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Nb3 Nc6 10.Nxc5 bxc5 11.Bd3 O-O 12.O-O d6 13.f4
h6 14.Qd1 Rb8 15.Be3 Re8 16.Rb1 a5 17.Nb5 e5 18.f5 Nd4 19.Nc3
Bc6 20.Rf2 Rb6 21.g4 Nh7 22.Rg2 Ng5 23.Rg3 Qa8 24.Bxg5 hxg5 25.Qd2
Qd8 26.Rh3 Qe7 27.Ne2 Rb3 28.Nc1 Rb6 29.Qxa5 Qb7 30.Qd2 f6 31.Re3
Bxe4 32.Qf2 Bc6 33.h4 Nf3+ 34.Rxf3 Bxf3 35.hxg5 fxg5 36.Qe3 e4
37.Bf1 Qe7 38.b4 Qe5 39.b5 Qg3+ 0-1

Finally, against 4.Nc3 you can get the delightful QI-Nimzo Hybrid (I play this line from both sides) after 4...Bb4, and against 4.e3 a good way to go is 4...Bb7 5.Bd3 d5 6.0-0 Bd6!

Ptero
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ptero
Full Member
***
Offline


When all else fails, read
the instructions.

Posts: 220
Joined: 03/22/06
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #5 - 06/01/06 at 19:41:25
Post Tools
ErictheRed wrote on 06/01/06 at 02:04:36:
Hi guys;
My main question: how realistic is it for Black to mix things up with the ErictheRed5?  I know about Adorjan's 6...b5 (though it looks a bit suspicious to me), and I gather that some ErictheRed5 lines turn into Benoni-like structures.  Can someone point me to variations of the ErictheRed5 that give Black the maximum chances to play for a win?  Thanks!


I’ve been playing the QI all my life and seem to get an interesting game nearly every time. Remember that you don't have to go ballistic from move 1 to get an interesting game of chess. One advantage of the QI is that white doesn't have forcing lines that can lead to many exchanges (as in the KI, French, petroff, etc.) or perpetual checks (as in some lines of the Najdorf poisoned pawn).
4.g3 Bb7 indeed may get a bit dry, but even there you can "mix things up" with, for example, Tiviakov's 7...Na6!?. I usually answer 4.g3 with 4...Ba6 5.b3 Bb7 6.Bg2 Bb4 7.Bd2 a5. If white plays 5.Qa4, black can still unbalance the game with 5...Bb7 6.Bg2 g6!? (Epishin's idea, i think). Adurjan's 5.b3 b5!? may looks a tiny bit suspect (to my patzer eyes), but it was played the some of the soundest (and strongest) players ever, Karpov and Anand Smiley.

Ptero

   
« Last Edit: 06/02/06 at 05:57:17 by Ptero »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2477
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Exciting QID lines
Reply #4 - 06/01/06 at 17:04:26
Post Tools
The Tango (and maybe the Blumenfeld) are interesting to consider, but like the original post says, I'm really looking for exciting QID lines.  I'm basically not exactly looking for EXCITING lines (I could get those by just playing the straight Modern Benoni) as much as I'm looking for a good complement to the Nimzo: a SOUND defence that also gives good chances to play for the win.  In this regard, perhaps the Semi-Slav is the best choice, but I've never felt that comfortable in those lines where I give up the center with ...dxc4, even if I'm supposed to be theoretically fine.  Also, why play the Nimzo/Semi-Slav; if I wanted to play the Semi-Slav I'd just play the Semi-Slav all the time!

I don't have any real experience in QID lines, but I tend to doubt that they are as drawish as many people would have you believe.  I'm sure the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 is fairly boring, but aren't there ways for Black to liven things up a bit? 

Basically, because I have no experience in the Queen's Indian, I would just like someone to point me in the direction of some of the sharper tries for Black against 4.g3, 4.a3, and 4.whatever.  That way, I can start to do a little research on the opening myself, without a book.  If the positions seem comfortable to me and look like lines I'd like to play, then I'll order a book (or two!) on the QID.  But right now I'd just like someone to point me to the sharper Black tries so that I can take a preliminary look at them.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo