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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Solid Defense against English?!?! (Read 20657 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #34 - 08/25/06 at 04:24:16
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On a positive note, I seem to have revived the thread a bit! Cool
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #33 - 08/25/06 at 04:19:41
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Eric,

Of course, I realised that I was dissing the entire English Defense with my comment that 3.e4 gives White an advantage.  What's interesting is that most of the commentary that I've read about the English Defense is that it is theoretically relatively weak but practically quite dangerous.  My statement is more a matter of style and chess philosophy than of individual lines. 

I have no faith in the English Defense and have (I think) a perfect (100%) score against it as White in serious otb games.  Part of my success is undoubtedly due to my confidence in the system. 

Black's most dangerous try in my experience is to try for a Dutch type of set-up with an early ...f5.  I have lost blitz and casual games to that set-up, but after analysing those losses I feel better and better about White's overall chances.

I have never faced the English Defense against anyone rated over 2300, so perhaps my limited experience against strong opposition colors my perspective.  Then again, considering its relative rarity at those levels perhaps the stronger players also tend to have a low opinion of it.

One thing is certain though, the English Defense shouldn't b e considered a Quote:
Solid Defense against English
as the thread title suggests.  It could be considered a "controversial" defense or an "exciting" defense.  Anything but solid.
  
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bob000
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #32 - 08/25/06 at 03:57:08
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1.c4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 makes white work for e4.
3.Nc3 e6 4.e4 Bb4 gives black enough pressure on the center.
3.d5 e6 4.e4 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Qe7 is a line NCO gives as equal.
3.f3 will give white a center but black has counter play.
Not exactly as respected as the Nimzo but fairly solid, has indian like play and doesn't give white a "large advantage."
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #31 - 08/25/06 at 01:31:31
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I completely disagree with Smyslov_Fan, in the sense that I think 1.c4 b6 2.d4 Nf6?! is clearly worse than 2...e6.  After 1.c4 b6 2.d4 e6 3.e4 I don't really see the need for giving any lines either; this is simply the main line of the English Defence and interested parties can look into it themselves!  Stating that 3.e4 gives an immediate advantage to White is ridiculous.  For what it's worth (not a great deal, I admit), Black now scored 49% according to Megabase 2006 with 3...Bb7! 

White may have an advantage in the English Defence, but it certainly isn't "immediate" or simple.  The opening is sound...or just as sound as other slightly risky defences, i.e. the Benko, Classical Dutch, Alekhine's, etc.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #30 - 08/24/06 at 23:52:35
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1.c4 b6 2.d4 doesn't transpose to a reputable Indian.  For instance, if Black plays 2...e6, 3.e4! gives White an immediate advantage.  (And no, MNb, I don't see any need for further lines in this case.)

2...Nf6 is trickier, but White can play the thematic 3.Nc3! e6 4.d5 or 4.e4.  These are relatively well known reasons for avoiding the 1...b6 move order, but I am aware that occasionally a few masters try it out. I don't trust it at all and wouldn't qualify it as a true Indian.  But that's just me.
  
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #29 - 08/24/06 at 15:52:34
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1.c4 b6 is also an option. If white plays d4 you've transposed into an Indian. If white plays for a three pawn center you have a fair amount of pressure on it though you'll probably have to get a book on it since black does need to play fairly accurately.
  
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MNb
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #28 - 08/18/06 at 20:50:00
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Oh, but your news bulletin caused at least two smiles on my face. If you organize the wake, I'll join.  Cheesy
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #27 - 08/18/06 at 07:58:14
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oops.

I seem to have killed yet another thread. Embarrassed 

I'm sorry. (sniff) Cry

I had hoped my news bulletin would at least bring a smile or two to the readers here.
Cry

Will there be a wake for this thread?
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #26 - 07/29/06 at 18:49:14
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I can see the headlines already.

The ENDANGERED English Hedgehog is Being Killed Off by Russian Yorzh!


The English hedgehog, which has found some shelter around chess tournament halls and internet sites, is being pushed aside by Russian yorzh.  The yorzh, which has been found on Europe [notice that the English press still doesn't know England's part of the subcontinent], looks very much like its English cousin but has been insidiously brought over by someone who should know better, an Englishman.  

Actually, John Cox, an International master who claims he's from Shropshire may be Welsh!  Perhaps he is trying to kill of this quintessentially English woodland herbivore because the Welsh Dragon has been proven to be mythical.  (The Chinese Dragon, however  has been seen lurking about in chess halls even in England.  But there have been no reports of a WELSH dragon.  At least not since the days of St. George's famous attack.)

Advocates for the Hedgehog claim it acts like a coiled spring when attacked.  Ludek Pachman and Mihai Suba in generations past made special studies of the hedgehog and have found it to be a vibrant and interesting animal.  But now, the villainous Mr. Cox has introduced the Russian yorzh.  

Experts say a Yorsh is a mixture of vodka and beer, which can also be found in the lobbies of some chesss halls.  Perhaps the "Yorzh" is a mutant form of the "yozh', a Russian hedgehog. Others however claim that this Russian yorzh is nothing but  a Yerudna.  Yerudna can also be found in and around chess halls, and is considered to be a lot of rubbish.  IM Cox may give a statement about his attack on the humble but noble hedgehog.  

Kenneth Grahame fans and environmentalists around the world eagerly wait to here what this International Master has to say.  Mr. Cox,  who himself has sometimes been mistaken for that rarest of fish, a Grand Master (see other threads),  may have something personal against hedgehogs.  Perhaps he poked himself with one of its quills.   Or perhaps he doesn't like The Wind in the Willows.  

A more likely explanation however, is that he has had too much Yorsh and is abandoning the traditional English country values that have made the hedgehog a welcome rare sight, even around the trash heaps (yerudniy) of European chess halls.

Mr. Cox has admitted a fondness for the "hedgepig", which may be a colloquial term for a female hedgehog.  We have no idea why he likes the hedgepig so much, but he has reportedly been seen taking hedgepigs out to Welsh pubs.

Reporting for the inestimable British press, all the way from Colorado in the United States is your very own  intrepid reporter.

~ SF


etcetera etcetera.
  
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photophore
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #25 - 07/29/06 at 15:23:32
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What on 1 c4 e6 2 g3 d5 3 Bg2 ?
Now , for me it's differeent , since I am a KID player :
1 c4 g6 , and I always get a KID
  
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Keano
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #24 - 07/26/06 at 14:32:13
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Yep - the line  3 Nf3 e6 4 d4 cxd4 5 Nxd4 would not bother me so much. Regarding 1 c4 e6 2 g3 d5 3 b3 dxc4 4 bxc4 Qd4 winning a pawn the answer is yes, but after 5.Nc3 Qxc4 6.Nf3 I dont like the looks of the queen wandering around the middle of the board  Undecided White just delevelops his bishops to the long diagonals, puts a rook on c1 and then....

In any case as usual I think this whole thing comes down to personal preference - to I want to play a hedgehog more than I would want a QGD - and if I do go for the QGD am I prepared to allow this Ret/Neo-Catalan whatever you like to call it
  
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #23 - 07/26/06 at 13:02:44
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Yes, 1 c4 Nf6 2 Nc3 c5 is a standard route to a Hedgehog, isn't it? I suppose you have to put up with 3 Nf3 e6 4 d4 cxd4 5 Nxd4; you can play 5...b6 I suppose, but it's not the usual English hedgehog. So you do have to be prepared for this Nimzo/English hybrid (assuming 5...Bb4) as well.

1 c4 e6 2 g3 d5 3 b3 dxc4 4 bxc4 Qd4 wins a pawn, doesn't it?
  
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #22 - 07/26/06 at 12:12:58
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Its true JOhn - after 1.c4 e6 2.g3!? I think I´m going 2...d5 - after that if White wants to avoid ...dxc4 lines heading to Reti he must go 3.b3!? and I´m not sure Black has a good way to take advantage of this move order  Huh

The problem with 1.c4 Nf6 for me is 2.Nc3!? when I dont like 2...e6 3.e4, although I suppose I could always play 2...c5 then !?! This way I have had no opportunity to play QGD though  Sad These move order things would drive you nuts  Shocked
  
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #21 - 07/26/06 at 12:01:25
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Doesn't 1 c4 e6 2 g3 end-play you a bit if you're aiming for a Hedgehog? I thought that was why Suba et al recommended 1 c4 Nf6; so you could meet 2 g3 with c6. It comes down to whether you prefer defending the Catalan and-or the Neo-Catalan/whatever, or the New York System (ie the c6/d5/Nf6/Bg4 stuff) or whatever the c6/d5/Nf6/Bf5 stuff is (I was brought up to call this the Capablanca system, I think, based on Keene's Flank Openings.

Isn't the Russian Yorzh a much better word for it than Hedgehog, by the way? So much more onomatopoeic. Although I like the old English hedgepig, as well.
  
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Re: Solid Defense against English?!?!
Reply #20 - 07/26/06 at 11:49:44
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IMJohnCox wrote on 07/26/06 at 10:38:39:
I meant 1 c4 e6 2 Nf3 d5 3 b3 Nf6 4 g3 Be7 5 Bg2 00 6 00 c5 7 Bb2 Nc6 8 e3, or the like. Isn't that called the Neo-Catalan? Or is that Modern Chess Openings 1970's-speak?


Search me.  Only for a few years have I been dabbling in Flank Openings, and I'm definitely not up on the terminology.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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