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Poll Question: Who is the greatest player of all time?
bars   pie

Fischer    
  31 (41.3%)
Kasparov    
  28 (37.3%)
Capablanca    
  3 (4.0%)
Karpov    
  2 (2.7%)
Alekhine    
  0 (0.0%)
Morphy    
  3 (4.0%)
Botvinnik    
  2 (2.7%)
Tal    
  1 (1.3%)
Smyslov    
  0 (0.0%)
Lasker    
  5 (6.7%)




Total votes: 75
« Created by: Keano on: 07/05/06 at 14:59:59 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who is the greatest player of all time? (Read 39260 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #62 - 07/13/06 at 16:17:30
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IM Cox, 

If you're referring to my comment  about Tal, I meant to state that he had the highest rating in the world, not the highest rating ever.  I don't think he beat Fischer's highest rating, but at the time Fischer was inactive and Kasparov was not yet Kasparov.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #61 - 07/13/06 at 12:57:55
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I find it surprising that none of the Lasker/Capa/Alekhine triumvirate get a shout. I think you could make a good case for either of the first two in particular.

I find it strange to say, ah, but Gazza had computers. Then, nobody did. Now, everyone does.

On a point of order, it is really true that Tal achieved at one moment the highest rating of all time up to that point? I find this surprising. He was the third to reach 2700, I believe. DId he really go on to overtake Gazza?
  
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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #60 - 07/12/06 at 17:09:07
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Quote:
It would be so useful, for the opening threads in particular, to have some type of searching capability available to find these old threads (difficult to implement, I know). 


I completely agree with this - for an opening thread the problem is duplication of analysis - or more specifically the need to cross-reference old threads - the problem with the opening threads sometimes is that the evolve to a point where they have criss-crossed an earlier thread.

I suppose the functionality you are looking for would be to add a "Also see " link or something to the header of the thread although I suspect this forum is generated from a generic template and that may not be a trivial task.
  
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OstapBender
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #59 - 07/12/06 at 16:39:08
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castlerock wrote on 07/12/06 at 06:30:32:
I do understand, new comers want to start something and often they do so without searching the old threads. Pages get filled and you get to read the same material with different names. I don’t say it’s wrong and a topic like this can be ever-green. But, this trend can be detrimental in opening threads. It’s not in the interest of anyone, to bury an old thread with wealth of info by a newer thread with lesser content.  Cry

I'll offer my 2¢ here:

It would be so useful, for the opening threads in particular, to have some type of searching capability available to find these old threads (difficult to implement, I know).  Links to previous threads (as you've done here) are helpful, though.  

I now have a small ChessPub Forum database with entries (with move-list cut-and-paste features of Chessbase 9 this actually goes pretty quickly) for some of the threads I've been following - mostly current, active threads - but also a few entries for older threads on opening lines which have a particular relevance to my repertoire.  I suppose if enough people did this sort of thing systematically and pooled their efforts, etc. there might be a way of cataloguing the forum opening threads.  But I doubt if the hidden thread problem really warrants such an effort.  Undecided
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #58 - 07/12/06 at 14:56:35
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You are getting confusing now - Castlerock was not referring to this discussion but to other threads, and as far as I see myself and Castlerock are in agreement so my quote was not attempting to get at him in any way. I think it should be obvious that a poll is directly related to time in which it is taken, think about this and also the fact that the link given is not in fact a poll at all! Now enough of this off-topic stuff its dragged on long enough  Sad
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #57 - 07/12/06 at 14:53:34
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Keano, 

You're right.  I was a bit unclear because I added your name at the top after I realised I was talking to both of you.

I agree with Castlerock's sentiments, as the rest of my previous post demonstrates.

  
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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #56 - 07/12/06 at 14:47:12
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Eh... what are you on about now Smyslov_fan? You agree but you dont agree Cool
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #55 - 07/12/06 at 14:16:51
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Castlerock and Keano, 

I agree with your sentiments.  I don't quite see why Keano took it personally and threw in a red herring/flag with his "Time stands still for no man" quote.  I hope this doesn't descend into another squabble over nothingness.

The repetitiveness that you mention has kept me relatively quiet in this thread because we have indeed had this and other similar discussions before.  New ideas and comments could have been added in a previously existing thread rather than bandy about aphorisms about time and man.   

Then again, as Karl Marx said, history repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second as farce.   

  
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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #54 - 07/12/06 at 09:40:46
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Time stands still for no man!
  
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castlerock
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #53 - 07/12/06 at 09:16:26
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I thought, Keano, I was talking about multiple threads in general and not about this thread in particular. In fact, this thread has some new discussions regarding Paul Morphy. Referring you and highlighting the possibility of having a debate with you (with no intention to start one) is to emphasis repetition. If anything, you can accuse me of posting something off topic. That’s all.

If the forum thinks this trend is fine, it’s okay with me. I won’t agree, but I’ll accept. We can even decide to recreate all polls once in every six months so that posters can change their opinion! lol
Grin
  

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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #52 - 07/12/06 at 07:38:56
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careful Castlerock, you sound like you want to irritate us all over again. The whole point of a new pole is that opinions change over time - for example as I mentioned my vote has changed in the meantime from Kasparov to Fischer as I realised just how much of an edge the modern support mechanisms surrounding him, and then computers had benefited Kasparov. You dont carry forward votes from a previous election to the next one - so be happy  Cool
  
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #51 - 07/12/06 at 06:30:32
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I don’t know if it’s only me, SF. Lot of threads get repeated these days and nothing new gets discussed in those repetitions. Personally, it acts as a dampener. For example, I have my own reasons why I consider Kasparov better than anybody else and I was quite vocal about my views, in the earlier thread. (It irritated Taljechin, among others) Now, I don’t want to do it all over again with Keano.

I do understand, new comers want to start something and often they do so without searching the old threads. Pages get filled and you get to read the same material with different names. I don’t say it’s wrong and a topic like this can be ever-green. But, this trend can be detrimental in opening threads. It’s not in the interest of anyone, to bury an old thread with wealth of info by a newer thread with lesser content.  Cry
  

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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #50 - 07/12/06 at 03:19:59
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Castlerock,

Thanks for the link to the previous thread on the greatest player of all time.
  
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castlerock
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #49 - 07/12/06 at 03:01:42
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #48 - 07/11/06 at 19:08:43
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Quote:
Quote: "I'm not familiar enough with Morphy's games to have an opinion about his number/rate of blunders.  But the allegation was that he had a significant pattern of such things, and listing one blunder by Anand, one blunder by Capablanca etc. isn't an answer to that.  It's like saying, "Nobody's perfect, so nobody is better than anybody else."

Oh, come on.
Wouldn't it be odd that people (like Fischer) would respect someone with a 'significant pattern' of blundering?
Thousands (if not millions) of chess players, for 150 years??

Wouldn't it be odd that someone could beat all the best players of their era (except Staunton of course Wink) if they don't see mate in 2?

Even if you're not familar enough with Morphy's games, I didn't think I really had to explicitly state that of course Morphy didn't usually hang pieces or miss easy mates.  The guy beat Anderssen in a match. He beat everybody in a match!
He gave pawn and move to anyone in the world.  
Does that sound like a guy that blunders frequently?

I didn't think I had to even bother refuting the strong claim that Morphy has a tendency to play that poorly.
So, I took the time to address the more interesting form of the argument rather than attacking a straw man.

I assumed that everyone would agree that Morphy didn't usually do such things but only that he did so from time to time and that the "greatest player of all time" ought not do that sort of thing.  Hence my listing of the "greatest" candidates and their gigantic failures.  I was trying to point out that all the great champions have their bad days, so lets not boot Morphy off the list for that.  That seems like a pretty reasonable argument to me.  But, of course, I'm a bit biased on the matter...

By the way, Morphy died on this date (July 10th) back in 1884.  
Its pretty amazing that there's still so much talk about the guy and people debating how he stacks up against today's greats.  

Cheers,
Nietzsche


I was making a point about a particular argument of yours, and saying that it was a red herring.  You're doing it again, by the way.  "Everybody has bad days" indeed, but that's irrelevant to the question of whether Morphy blundered much more frequently than those other guys.

Naturally other things (like Fischer's view) can be taken into account.

Also sprach Kylemeister  
Wink  
  
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