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Poll Question: Who is the greatest player of all time?
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Fischer    
  31 (41.3%)
Kasparov    
  28 (37.3%)
Capablanca    
  3 (4.0%)
Karpov    
  2 (2.7%)
Alekhine    
  0 (0.0%)
Morphy    
  3 (4.0%)
Botvinnik    
  2 (2.7%)
Tal    
  1 (1.3%)
Smyslov    
  0 (0.0%)
Lasker    
  5 (6.7%)




Total votes: 75
« Created by: Keano on: 07/05/06 at 14:59:59 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Who is the greatest player of all time? (Read 35971 times)
OstapBender
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #92 - 08/01/06 at 16:08:53
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Markovich wrote on 08/01/06 at 15:36:05:
I assume that so many votes for Fischer is accounted for by the nationalism among the many Americans on this site.  I can't think what else could possibly explain it.

It's laughable, really.

I hadn't visited this thread for a while, and am now astounded to see that Fischer now has more votes than Kasparov!!

C'mon Markovich, I know you want to change your vote to Fischer now...  Tongue

No doubt nationalism is playing some role, but I doubt this accounts for everything.  When we can't even agree here on what "greatest player" should mean, how can you explain why the voting is going the way it is?

Alternative theory:
People who have no strong opinion on the matter are voting for Fischer in droves simply for the amusement of seing Markovich's reaction! Grin
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #91 - 08/01/06 at 16:07:03
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To repeat though, I think its a very close call between Fischer and Kasparov - people must remember that Kasparov is recent in the memory... I would go along with Spraggett again in this answer....


WCN: Do you think Fischer in his prime would defeat Kasparov in his prime?
Kevin Spraggett: Well...let me put it this way. When Fischer beat Spassky in 1972...nobody really expected he would beat him that badly. Fischer actually gave up a few points because he got careless. I think Spassky was a tremendous player who is probably not that much weaker than Kasparov is now. Kasparov, of course, works a lot harder than Spassky ever did. Spassky beat everybody, up until Fischer...just like Kasparov almost beats everybody. In my opinion, Kasparov is not the best player in the world, and hasn't been for at least 5 or 6 years...but he's the best tournament player. His preparation is on a level that no one else can match. People respect him for this, but I don't think he's the very best. If Fischer would play Kasparov, my money would go on Fischer, however...it would be a bloody match, an exciting match, and I think that whoever would win would be completely exhausted. Kasparov plays better than anyone else in the opening...whereas Fischer had his own openings. It's really difficult to compare one generation to the next. 
  
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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #90 - 08/01/06 at 16:03:13
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Markovich - GM Spraggett is Canadian and as far as I am aware would not be biased towards an American in his views. Did you ever consider the posibillity, now bear with me, that in fact it might be yourself who is close minded on this topic?
  
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #89 - 08/01/06 at 15:36:05
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I assume that so many votes for Fischer is accounted for by the nationalism among the many Americans on this site.  I can't think what else could possibly explain it.

It's laughable, really.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Keano
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #88 - 08/01/06 at 14:40:45
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Here is an interesting snippet from an interview with GM Kevin Spragett, a player I think highly of - I would agree with a lot of what he says here....

WCN: Who do you think is the greatest chess player of all time?
Kevin Spraggett: Difficult to say. I made a list once of the ten best players, and it quickly grew into twenty. The player I think who made the biggest contribution to chess but hasn't received the recognition is Rubinstein. He may be the greatest player of all time. If you look at his endgame skill and what he left, in terms of his results, they are on par with anyone...Kasparov, Karpov etc. If you look at his contribution to openings, he has made the single greatest contribution. Almost every opening has a Rubinstein variation or principle line that was initially introduced by Rubinstein...the Spanish, the Nimzo-Indian, the Chigorin, the French...you name it, he's got something. He was also an artist...for the long time he was my favourite player. Lasker, who perhaps is my second favourite player, made it difficult for Rubinstein to get a match with him. In modern times, Fischer was exceptional. Karpov and Kramnik are all great players...very professional. But Fischer was able to produce electricity away from the board and on the board. He used to go in and come out with a refutation to a line that had been worked out by a bunch of Soviets...so he could possibly be the greatest of all time. For sure, he is the most unique chess player in the last 50 years. 
  
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #87 - 07/23/06 at 10:54:50
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@@@ Tal's Rating @@@
Although I am a great fan of Tal, I think his rating in 1979 was below both the rating 
of Karpov and Korchnoi.
However he outperformed anyone in that year when you look at his TPR in Montreal. 
And there is of course his TPR in the Riga-interzonal with a fenomanal score (14/17).

Interesting Karpov in the twilight of his career had an even higher TPR in Linares 1994
scoring a stunning (11/13) and a TPR of nearly 2900.
  
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #86 - 07/22/06 at 20:46:35
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Wouldn't it be nice if Robert Wadlow played chess. That would settle this argument once and for all  Wink
  
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #85 - 07/22/06 at 14:07:57
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Good point, Jonathan!

However, Morphy's gimmick of playing people at material odds is equivalent.  In the end, they were both gimmicks.  The real mark of Kasparov's dominance was in the way he destroyed his opponents.  He would often win top flight tournaments with more wins than draws against the very best in the world.

Karpov once said that he wouldn't lose more than three or four games in a year, and to play a match where someone was expected to beat him six times was ludicrous!  Kasparov did three impossible things before breakfast every day!
  
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #84 - 07/22/06 at 10:50:43
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Kasparov — for his clock simul victories over various national teams of grandmasters.
Has anyone else ever even attempted this?

Shocked
  

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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #83 - 07/22/06 at 04:32:18
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Po anglicckii, eto ochen' trudnii pishat' russkii slov.   

Weinstein would be spelled
 

Veynshteyn in Russian, but I don't have a Cyrrilic keyboard.  When Kasparov was introduced to the English speaking chess world, Botvinnik called him "Harry Weinstein", but he took his mother's name and Russified it, making it Kasparov (Kacnapob).
  
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #82 - 07/22/06 at 02:40:21
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Greetings,

Thank you, Nietzsche - for the information and for reassuring me!

I knew I couldn't be that badly wrong.

Now that you've reminded me of the circumstances, I believe that I got this idea from seeing a TV interview with Garry years ago, where he explained how he'd changed "Kasparian" to "Kasparov" for the afore-mentioned reason.

I didn't recall his mentioning the name "Weinstein".

I take your point though - perhaps I should have left it as the name by which he's generally known.

Smyslov_Fan, if he did "adopt" his mother's name when he was legally entitled to at 12 years of age, doesn't that make him - legally - "Kasparian"!? Or did he not go through the proper legal channels and merely started calling himself "Kasparian/ov"?

What was the legal status of his name, Nietzsche?

Kindest regards,

James
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #81 - 07/22/06 at 00:40:39
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Except for the minor detail that Kasparov was never legally "Kasparian".  Details.
  
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Nietzsche
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #80 - 07/22/06 at 00:00:40
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Umm...its not so clear-cut:

There is, of course, Genrikh Moiseyevich Kasparian who was born on the 27th of February 1910 in Tbilisi, Georgia.  The famous chess composer.
And there is Garry Kimovich Kasparov, born as Garry Vajnshtejn (the surname analogous to German "Weinstein" ) in Baku, Azerbaijan April 13, 1963.

However, after Kasparov's father died (Garry was 7 at the time) but as soon as was legally possible (at the age of 12), Garry adopted his mother's surname, Kasparian. Which he, however, modified the name to a Russified version - Kasparov.
So, he was born Vajnshtejn (or Weinstein) then changed to a modified version of Kasparian, which is the famous Kasparov.

So,  although I've never actually seen someone reference him as Garry Kasparian..its not completely unfounded; though its also not completely accurate either since Kasparov himself chose to modify the name and he presumably never went by Kasparian. 
Personally, I'd stick to "Kasparov" since that's the guys legal name and also what his friends call him.   Wink
{Not to mention it could become a bit confusing with two famous Kasparians.  Sort of like Ed. Lasker and Em. Lasker.} 

But technically, I suppose both Smyslov_Fan and Dragan Glas are correct.  Just thought I'd share.

Cheers,
Nietzsche

PS - A rose by any other name would still dominate chess for over 20 years, achieve the highest career rating of all time, and defend his title like a real champion...
  

"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #79 - 07/21/06 at 01:35:25
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Greetings,

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/21/06 at 01:07:56:
Errr, James....

There's a player named Kasparian.  He was mostly famous for his endgame studies.  There was also a player named Weinstein who changed his name to Kasparov.


Shocked

I've always thought his "real" name was "Kasparian" !!?? Not the problem composer.

Hence, the name change to "-ov" being the simplest in accordance with a certain Soviet "preference" for "Russian" players.

...Or is my memory failing me ... I'll be forgetting my own name next...  Shocked

Kindest regards,

James
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who is the greatest player of all time?
Reply #78 - 07/21/06 at 01:07:56
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Errr, James....

There's a player named Kasparian.  He was mostly famous for his endgame studies.  There was also a player named Weinstein who changed his name to Kasparov.
  
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