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Normal Topic ***Move Orders in the English*** (Read 2006 times)
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Re: ***Move Orders in the English***
Reply #3 - 10/04/06 at 13:58:31
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I’m of the opinion that if one plays 1.c4 they  shouldn’t play Nf3 but Ne2.  There are some lines where black plays Bb4 that give him/her an easy go. (and are easy to play IMO)

I also don’t care for the reversed Sicilian lines.  

I play 1.Nf3 and of  the opinion that 1.Nf3 gives more flexibility.      I myself play the d5 2.c4 Reti lines    

After 1. Nf3   if 1...Nc6 2.d4   I play Queen pawn opening with a Kingside fianchetto  However most who play 1…Nc6 against me are wanting to play a King’s Indian So   1.Nf3 Nc6 2.d4 d6 3.g3 g6 4.b3 Bg7 5.Bb2 which is a great line to play and gets a lot of use at club level.

1...g6 2.c4  Either A Symmetrical English or a Reti King’s Indian  

1...c5 2.c4  Symmetrical English or sometimes I get someone trying to play a King’s Indian panov    On d6 I either punch d4 with the idea of dxc  or play a3 and leave the center alone go back into the Symmetrical English.

1...Nf6  2. c4 Symmetrical  English again.
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Re: ***Move Orders in the English***
Reply #2 - 10/04/06 at 11:35:53
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Very difficult question!

It comes down to which lines you want to play, which you want to avoid and how to make your repertoire coherent so that you don't get move-ordered.

a) Choose lines of what to play vs 1...e6 and 2...d5 (i.e QGD (also important if you want to play Nge2), Reti or Catalan) and also 1...Nf6 2...e6 and possibly 3...d5.
b) Choose lines vs e5 (Nf3 or Nge2 lines?)
c) Choose lines vs c5 (d4 or d3 lines?)
d) Make everything coherent! (Especially important for 1...Nf6 which can be just about anything, well, not the dutch, I suppose.)

* 1.Nf3 cuts down e5 lines.
* 2.g3 avoids hedgehogs and some Bb4 lines. e5/c6 is a line which is a drawback for 2.g3.

Many sources claim white advantage in Flohr-Mikenas but I'm not so sure. (I've only played it once in CC and won.)


Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
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Re: ***Move Orders in the English***
Reply #1 - 07/11/06 at 07:58:47
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Well what a big topic !!

1 Nf3 avoids  1c4 e5 -  guess it's value depends on whether you think 1...e5 is good for Black

on 1 c4 e5

2 g3 tends to transpose as in Kosten's book - to the Botvinnink system. 2...c6 is nothing to worry about.

2 nc3 & g3 can lead to various Sicilian's in reverse/ or Botvinnink if white plays e4

2nc3 and 3 Nf3 leads to 4 knights which has been played by Kasparov.

As to what is good or bad, I havethe impression that English players were happy when they had 1...e5 on the board as they always get to play their own pet system
Flohr- Mikenas - is fine for White but sharp. White can always play 3 Nf3 if he doesn't want such a wild game, which leads to a line that Kramnik has played via 1 Nf3

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***Move Orders in the English***
07/11/06 at 05:26:51
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Move orders are one of my favorite topics.  I would like to open up discussion about various move   orders in the most transpositional of openings.  Some topics of interest:

1.Nf3 vs. 1.c4
1.c4 e5 --  2.g3 vs. 2.Nc3
1.c4 Nf6 --  2.g3 vs. 2.Nc3
1.c4 c5  -- 2.g3 vs. 2.Nc3
1.c4 e6 -- 2.Nc3 vs. 2.g3 vs. 2.d4
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3

What are the benefits of 2.g3 compared to 2.Nc3? Drawbacks? Which lines get avoided? Which don't? I know 2.g3 is recommended in Tony Kosten's excellent book: The Dynamic English.  I also note that the two greatest (in my opinion) 1.c4 players, Seirawan & Christiansen, both play 2.Nc3.

What do 2.g3 players think about 1.c4 e5 2.g3 c6?

I play the Samisch against the Kings Indian, and also 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3, but one of my regular opponents will transpose me into a Kings Indian with d6 and g6 after I commit my g1-knight with 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 d6.  Keep in mind I want to stay clear of 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 d6 3.d4 Nbd7 (Old Indian).  Against that I prefer to keep my pawn restrained on d3.  Any ideas?

Any opinions on the Mikenas/Flohr-Mikenas Attack? Does 3...d5 diffuse white's play?

Hope to hear from you,
Sterling Kolde
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