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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C11: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd (Read 217833 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #31 - 07/14/06 at 05:26:19
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Thank you all for making your suggestions.  I have taken a quick look at 7...Be7 and a long look at 7...Qb6.  I used to play 7...Qb6 over the board, and may do so again.  However, since this is a theoretical debate/game, I will try one of the most popular moves played today.  

I can't quite bring myself to play 7...a6 here because in OTB play I go into the "Vacuum Cleaner Variation" as it's called here, and win in the endgame despite my theoretical deficiencies.

Here are the official moves so far:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3.

My move is 7...cxd4 (And Hansard's records laughter, cat calls and sporadic cheering.)



NB: Hansard's is the official record for the British Parliament and has been for at least 200 years now.  It's a great read!
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #30 - 07/14/06 at 05:17:47
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Morozevich? I thought it was Mikhail Gurevich's idea.  Oh well.  I think it wasn't a permanent fix anyway.
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #29 - 07/14/06 at 01:37:39
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Keano wrote on 07/13/06 at 08:11:13:
If you decide to go for the line Quote:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 b5
mentioned by MnB, then I think White should continue 9.a3! which is a nice pophylactic measure favoured by the top guys now - then I think Blacks best could be ...Bb7, although ...Qb6 is playable also


Is Morozovevitsj' 9...g5!? refuted then? This has been quite popular the last two years.
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #28 - 07/13/06 at 20:40:44
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BadPritt wrote on 07/13/06 at 20:10:11:
So here I have this recent Khalifman-book dealing with the variation you are playing, but unfortunately for you Mr. Khalifman is trying to prove at least a slight advantage for white in every line.

What's so bad about that?  Wink
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #27 - 07/13/06 at 20:10:11
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Ok Smyslov_Fan,

Thanks for your support. I really needed that!  Wink
So here I have this recent Khalifman-book dealing with the variation you are playing, but unfortunately for you Mr. Khalifman is trying to prove at least a slight advantage for white in every line.  Maybe I could help by giving some of his recommendations against suggested lines. For example, in the improved piece-sacrifice variation that Hg_man suggested, 7)...Qb6 8)Na4 Qa5 9)c3 c4 10)b4 Nb4x 11)cb4x Bb4x 12)Kf2 b5 13)a3 Be7 14)Nc5 Nc5x 15)dc5x Qc7 he gives 16)Be2  (instead of 16)Qd4)  16)...Bc5x 17)Bc5x Qc5x 18)Qd4 += on the ground that blacks 3 pawns are safely blockaded and that white is ready for decisive action on the kingside, even without the queens on.
Well, this may give you or Hg_man something to chew upon! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #26 - 07/13/06 at 17:25:52
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/13/06 at 16:50:44:
Brad,

No problem!  It's great to see an actor here!  (Ok, maybe just the avatar of an actor.)  Welcome to the chesspub, and I'd love to hear what you have to say about Khalifman's book.

PS: Keano, no offense, and I'm sure Mr. Reeves has made lots of money, but it's hard for me to consider the person who made "Woah, I know Karate" a household phrase an actor. An unintentional comedian and entertainer, maybe. Lips Sealed

Don't forget "There is no spoon."  Roll Eyes

And Keanu was great in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure."  Cool
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #25 - 07/13/06 at 16:50:44
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Brad,

No problem!  It's great to see an actor here!  (Ok, maybe just the avatar of an actor.)  Welcome to the chesspub, and I'd love to hear what you have to say about Khalifman's book.

PS: Keano, no offense, and I'm sure Mr. Reeves has made lots of money, but it's hard for me to consider the person who made "Woah, I know Karate" a household phrase an actor. An unintentional comedian and entertainer, maybe. Lips Sealed
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #24 - 07/13/06 at 12:47:43
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Sorry, I see that my first try posting here has gone wrong.  Cry
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #23 - 07/13/06 at 12:41:42
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Maybe we should have a look at the recommendation of Khalifman in Opening for white according to Anand 6. His second chapter, about 12 pages, deals with 3)..Nc6.  If we skip all the details his main line is 1)e4 e6 2)d4 d5 3)Nc3 Nc6 4)Nf3 Nf6 5)e5 Ne4 6)Ne2 f6 7)Ng3 fe5x 8)de5x and now I will give what seems to me to be the 2 most important lines:

A) 8)...Bd7 9)Be3 Bc5 10)Bc5x Nc5x 11)Qd2 0-0 12)Qe3 Qe7 13)0-0-0 Be8 14)h4 Bg6 15)h5 Be4 16)Nd4 Nd4x 17)Rd4x a5 18)f3 Bf5 19)Ne2 h6 20)g4 Bh7 21)Rg1 Nd7 22)f4 with a slight advantage to white;

B) 8)...Be7 9)Bb5 Bd7 10)Be3 0-0 11)Bc6x Bc6x 12)Nd4 Qd7 13)Qg4 Nc5 14)Nh5 Rf7 15) Nf4 clearly better for white.
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #22 - 07/13/06 at 08:11:13
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If you decide to go for the line Quote:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 b5
mentioned by MnB, then I think White should continue 9.a3! which is a nice pophylactic measure favoured by the top guys now - then I think Blacks best could be ...Bb7, although ...Qb6 is playable also
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #21 - 07/13/06 at 07:06:45
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Ostap,

You're exactly right, it was the Anand-Dreev game from 1991.  There was no way that I could have known about the earlier game you cite because ChessBase wasn't around yet! Embarrassed

Still, I can now be doubly disappointed because
  • a) Dreev stole my idea
  • b) Some guy named Skrobek had played it years before in a national championship and I didn't even know it. Embarrassed


  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #20 - 07/13/06 at 07:01:46
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MNb,

You tempt me with something almost as good as chocolate!

I can transpose into a favorable variation of the Classical?  Yummy! Grin


I'll have to think about this one.  If I don't my tastebuds will determine my move. Undecided

Btw, I wasn't familiar with the Summerscale game, thanks!
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #19 - 07/13/06 at 02:54:31
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To tempt Smyslov_Fan:

Mainka,R (2530) - Glek,I (2580) [C11]
Recklinghausen, 1995
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 b5 9.dxc5 Bxc5 10.Bxc5 Nxc5 11.Qf2 Qb6 12.Bd3 b4 13.Ne2 a5 14.0–0 Ba6 15.Kh1 Ne7 16.Rfd1 h6 17.Ned4 0–0 18.Qh4 Ra7 19.g4 Ng6 20.Bxg6 fxg6 21.f5 Raf7 22.g5 Rxf5 23.Nxf5 Rxf5 24.gxh6 Rxf3 25.hxg7 Kxg7 26.Rg1 Ne4 27.Rae1 Rf5 28.Rxe4 dxe4 29.Qe7+ Rf7 30.Qg5 Be2 31.Qxg6+ Kf8 32.Qh6+ Ke7 0–1

Note that 11...Qe7 transposes the Classical French: 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7 Qxe7 7.f4 a6 8.Nf3 c5 9.dxc5 Nc6 10.Qd2 Nxc5 11.Qf2 b5.

Cobb,C (2265) - Summerscale,A (2459) [C11]
MSO Ron Banwell-mem London (7), 26.08.2000
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 b5 9.dxc5 Bxc5 10.Bxc5 Nxc5 11.Qf2 Qe7 12.Bd3 Nb4 13.Rd1 Nbxd3+ 14.cxd3 b4 15.Ne2 a5 16.Nfd4 Ba6 17.Nc1 Rc8 18.0–0 0–0 19.Qe3 g6 20.g3 Rc7 21.Rf2 Rfc8 22.h3 a4 23.Kh2 Qf8 24.g4 Nd7 25.Kg3 Qg7 26.h4 Nc5 27.Kh3 Qh6 28.Kg3 a3 29.b3 Ne4+ 30.dxe4 Rc3 31.Nd3 Bxd3 32.Rxd3 Rxd3 33.Qxd3 Rc3 34.Qxc3 bxc3 35.exd5 exd5 36.Rc2 Qf8 37.Rxc3 Qb4 38.Rc8+ Kg7 39.Nf3 Qe4 40.Ra8 d4 41.Rxa3 d3 42.g5 d2 43.Nxd2 Qe1+ 44.Kf3 Qxd2 45.Ra4 Qd3+ 46.Kf2 h5 0–1
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #18 - 07/12/06 at 20:40:16
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/12/06 at 16:47:19:
Btw: in the line I just quoted, the critical position occurred after 12.Bd2 Bd2+ 13.Nd2.  The obvious 13...b5 was known to be bad, so Black usually played 13...b6.  My novelty was to play an immediate 13...g5!?  I don't remember who played it in a big game, but I think it was one of the Candidates Matches at the time.


Out of curiosity, I did a quick database search.

The game you might be thinking of is:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 Qb6
8. Na4 Qa5+ 9. c3 cxd4 10. b4 Nxb4 11. cxb4 Bxb4+ 12. Bd2 Bxd2+ 13. Nxd2 g5 14.
Nb2 gxf4 15. Nd3 b6 16. Kf2 Ba6 17. Nf3 Rc8 18. Nxf4 Nc5 19. g3 d3 20. Bxd3
Nxd3+ 21. Nxd3 Qa3 22. Nf4 Qb2+ 23. Kg1 Rc2 24. Qd4 Qa3 25. Ne1 Rb2 26. Rc1
Qxa2 27. Nh5 Qb3 28. Nf6+ Kd8 29. Nxd5 exd5 30. e6 Ke7 31. Rc3 Qb5 32. Rc7+
Kxe6 33. Qe3+ Kf6 34. Qe7+ Kf5 35. Qxf7+ Kg5 1-0 Anand-Dreev, Candidates m7 (6), Madras 1991.

However, it looks like the move was played about 4 years earlier:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 Qb6
8. Na4 Qa5+ 9. c3 cxd4 10. b4 Nxb4 11. cxb4 Bxb4+ 12. Bd2 Bxd2+ 13. Nxd2 g5 14.
Be2 d3 15. Bh5 Qb4 16. O-O b5 17. Bxf7+ Kxf7 18. Qh5+ Ke7 19. Qxg5+ Ke8 20. f5
bxa4 21. fxe6 Nf8 22. Qg7 Ng6 23. Rac1 Bxe6 24. Rf6 Qb6+ 25. Kh1 Rf8 26. Qxh7
Ne7 27. Rcf1 Rg8 28. Qxd3 Kd7 29. Nf3 Qb2 30. Rg1 Rg4 31. h3 Rh8 32. Qa6 Qb6
33. Qxa4+ Rxa4 0-1 Przewoznik-Skrobek, POL-ch sf, Gdynia 1987.
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #17 - 07/12/06 at 18:18:21
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This is amazing!  The game hasn't even gotten underway and the reponse has been incredible.  Lots of great comments and analysis.  Hgman, your previous thread analyzing the piece sac in the ...Qb6 line looks really impressive!

I gotta say, Smyslov_Fan you really know how to host a popular game thread!

From here on, I'm hiring you to host any future game threads I might play in - even if you are not the one I'm playing against!
  

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