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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit (Read 61028 times)
ArKheiN
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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #10 - 07/28/06 at 23:18:12
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Hi everyone, Ben_Hague is defending the Morra Gambit? I have a question for him.

What do you play against it?

1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 e6 and now, would you continue like this?

5.Nf3 a6 6.Bc4 b5 7.Bb3 Bb7 8.Qe2 d6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Rd1 Ngf6 do you still agree with this line as White? And now what would you play here? Im asking that because I think this line by Black is dangerous for the Morra player, and not easy to play against.
  
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Ben_Hague
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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #9 - 07/28/06 at 17:59:22
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[quote author=Uberdeker link=1154029852/0#1 date=1154083774]
P.S. Interesting game you played with Speelman (published in latest NIC), I'm especially impressed at your choice of the Modern against such an expert

[/quote]

It was nice to get a game into NIC, although it was a shame it was a loss. I was quite pleased with the game itself as it was the first game I've played against someone decent where I felt I was actually playing the same game. Previously I'd just blindly hack away and hope to get lucky (not always unsuccessfully). Sadly since then I've been playing trash. The choice of opening was partly because I don't really know anything else, partly to learn more about the opening, and partly because the chances of surprising someone with his experience are nil.
  
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Ben_Hague
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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #8 - 07/28/06 at 17:49:31
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Looking at the various options after 1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6 we seem to have:

1) 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nh4
2) 7.b4 (or 7.0-0 Nf6 8.b4)
3) 7.0-0 Nf6 8.h3
4) 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Bf4 Bg4 9.Qb3 e6

Of these I don't trust the first three. I know that line 1 has been played a lot and clearly has a few supporters here, but it looks to me that Black's position is very solid. In particular 9...Qa5 cuts out the Qh5 manouver and if anything Black's king is looking safer than White's.
In the lines with b4 I don't really understand what White has gained if Black waits for b5 and then plays axb5. He must still have reasonable practical chances and this would be my second choice.
h3 isn't refutable, but the best White can do is get back into one of the main lines and there are plenty of ways for Black to try and show that it's just a wasted tempo.

So my next move will be 7.0-0 offering the sequence 7...Nf6 8.Bf4 Bg4 9.Qb3 e6. After this I'm not sure what to play. I suspect that 10.Qxb7 is best, but my pet line in this position is 10.Ng5 so I'm really tempted to give it a punt. If we reach that position I'll have to give it some thought.
  
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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #7 - 07/28/06 at 16:26:37
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PS Meat: computers are bad gambit players.

Ya, I somewhat figured that  Wink

By the way, there's also the b4 stuff: 7.b4 and 7.0-0 Nf6 8. b4

I'm not sure how black should meet those as nobody has ever played it against me.
  
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MNb
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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #6 - 07/28/06 at 16:01:32
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Two other options: 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Bg5 e6 (Bg4 9.Qb3 e6 10.Qxb7 Na5 11.Qb4 Nxc4 12.Qxc4 += as White's lead in development is more important than the pair of bisops) 9.Qe2 h6! (takes benefit of White's 8th move; Be7 10.Rfd1 offers White interesting positional compensation) and White has done badly after both 10.Bh4 and 10.Be3, but the various games I have found are not convincing.
7.0-0 Nf6 8.Bf4 Bg4 (e6 is what White wants and e5 9.Ng5! is nasty) 9.Qb3 e6 10.Qxb7 Na5 11.Qb4 e5 (White will not mind Nxc4 12.Qxc4 Bxf3 13.Qc6+ Nd7 14.gxf3 either) 12.Rad1?? Rb8 13.Qa4+ Bd7 14.Qc2 Nxc4 Mayers-Bates, Hastings 1995. Critical is 12.Bd5 of course
a)12...Nxd5 13.exd5 exf4 14.Qxf4.
b)12...Rb8 13.Qa4+ Bd7 14.Qd1 exf4 15.Ng5.
and I will leave it to Überdeker to put his teeth in this tasty stuff.
I am also very curious, with what ideas the Hague/Dragonslayer team will show up.

PS Meat: computers are bad gambit players.
« Last Edit: 07/29/06 at 03:22:09 by MNb »  

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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #5 - 07/28/06 at 15:57:25
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Quote:
Regardless of this, I think 9...Qa5 is actually quite a challenging move, asking White to justify 9.Nh4 which just looks all wrong to me.


You are absolutely right. I don't think black has too many problems after 9...e6 though.

If after 9... Qa5 white continues with the natural 10. 0-0 the we have Haas - Schmidt, Baden 2002:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "80"]

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 d6 6. Bc4 a6 7. Bg5 Nf6 8.
Bxf6 gxf6 9. Nh4 Qa5 10. O-O e6 11. Kh1 Be7 12. Qd2 Qg5 13. Nf3 Qxd2 14. Nxd2
b5 15. Be2 Nd4 16. Bd3 Bb7 17. a3 Rg8 18. f3 h5 19. g3 Rc8 20. Kg2 Bf8 21. Rad1
Bh6 22. Kf2 Ke7 23. Bb1 h4 24. Rfe1 h3 25. Nd5+ Bxd5 26. exd5 e5 27. Nf1 Kf8
28. g4 f5 29. Rxd4 exd4 30. Bxf5 Rc1 31. b3 Rxe1 32. Kxe1 Bc1 33. a4 bxa4 34.
bxa4 Ke7 35. Kd1 Bf4 36. Ke2 Kf6 37. Bd7 Rb8 38. g5+ Ke5 39. Bxh3 Rb2+ 40. Ke1
d3 {0-1 Haas,F-Schmidt,S (2232)/Baden 2002} *

And here black may even have the improvement 12...f5 with the idea 13. exf5 d5 or Bxh4.
So I wanted to look for alternatives to whites 10.0-0 and guess what move my engine suggested? 10. Nf3, lol!  Grin
  
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MNb
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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #4 - 07/28/06 at 14:59:04
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Überdeker has chosen one of the best defences available, so I am delighted.

Haas,F - Schmidt,S [B21]
VBN 0203 Baden (8.2), 06.04.2003
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nh4 Qa5 10.0–0 e6 11.Kh1 Be7 12.Qd2 Qg5 13.Nf3 Qxd2 14.Nxd2 b5 15.Be2 Nd4 16.Bd3 Bb7 17.a3 Rg8 18.f3 h5 19.g3 Rc8 20.Kg2 Bf8 21.Rad1 Bh6 22.Kf2 Ke7 23.Bb1 h4 24.Rfe1 h3 25.Nd5+ Bxd5 26.exd5 e5 27.Nf1 Kf8 28.g4 f5 29.Rxd4 exd4 30.Bxf5 Rc1 31.b3 Rxe1 32.Kxe1 Bc1 33.a4 bxa4 34.bxa4 Ke7 35.Kd1 Bf4 36.Ke2 Kf6 37.Bd7 Rb8 38.g5+ Ke5 39.Bxh3 Rb2+ 40.Ke1 d3 0–1

Jenull,M (2147) - Rau,H (2302) [B21]
DEM U18 Winterberg (2), 2002
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nh4 e6 10.0–0 b5 11.Bb3 Qb6 12.Qh5 Nd4 13.Bd5 exd5 14.Nxd5 Qd8 15.Rac1 Ne6 16.Qf3 Bh6 17.Rcd1 Bb7 18.Nf5 Ng5 19.Qa3 Bf8 20.Rfe1 Rc8 21.b3 Rg8 22.Re3 Rc2 23.Nd4 Rc5 24.b4 Rc4 25.Qb2 Rg6 26.h4 Ne6 27.h5 Rh6 28.Nf5 Bxd5 29.exd5 Rxh5 30.Qb1 Qd7 31.Rde1 Rf4 32.dxe6 fxe6 33.Rxe6+ Kf7 34.Qb3 d5 35.Ng3 Rg5 36.Qe3 Rxb4 37.Rxa6 Ra4 38.Rxa4 bxa4 39.f4 Rg4 40.Rc1 Bd6 41.Ne2 Bb8 42.Qd3 Kg7 43.g3 Rg6 44.Kg2 h5 45.Rh1 Kh6 46.Rh4 Ba7 47.Nd4 Bxd4 48.Qxd4 Qe8 49.Qd1 Qe4+ 50.Kf2 Qf5 51.Qxa4 Rg8 52.Rh1 Rc8 53.Re1 h4 54.Qb3 Rc2+ 55.Re2 Rxe2+ 56.Kxe2 h3 57.Qb8 Qe4+ 58.Kd2 Qg2+ 59.Kc1 h2 60.Qh8+ Kg6 61.Qg8+ Kf5 62.Qc8+ Ke4 63.Qe6+ Kd3 64.Qa6+ Ke3 65.Qa3+ Kf2 66.Qc5+ Kxg3 67.Qe3+ Qf3 68.Qe1+ Kh3 69.Qe6+ Kg2 70.Qg8+ Kf2 0–1

Buth,L - Von Ehr,M [B21]
Baden-ch JS Waldshut (9), 06.04.2002
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nh4 e6 10.Qh5 Ne5 11.Be2 Ng6 12.Nxg6 fxg6 13.Qh3 Bd7 14.0–0 Be7 15.Rad1 Rc8 16.Qh6 Kf7 17.Qe3 Kg7 18.Kh1 Rc5 19.b4 Rc8 20.f4 b5 ½–½
This last game gives more questions, than answers. I suggest eg 10...b5 11.f4 Ng6 as the natural square for the bishop is b7.

There is the fragment Shipman-Gray, 2000: 9...Rg8 10.Qh5 Ne5 11.Be2 h6.

Smith,C - Pendergast,D [B21]
corr IECC Trio, 1996

1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Pxc3 Pc6 5.Pf3 d6 6.Lc4 a6 7.Lg5 Pf6 8.Lxf6 gxf6 9.Pd4 Pxd4 10.Dxd4 Tg8 11.g3 Lh6 12.Lb3 Le6 13.Lxe6 fxe6 14.Da4+ b5 15.Db3 Dc8 16.0-0 Dc4 17.Dd1 Tc8 18.a3 Tg6 19.Te1 Kf7 20.Dh5 Tc5 21.Dd1 Kg8 22.Tb1 f5 23.exf5 Txf5 24.Te2 Tf8 25.Tc2 Tgf6 26.b3 Dc6 27.Dg4+ Lg7 28.Tbc1 Df3 29.Db4 Th6 30.De4 d5 31.Dxf3 Txf3 32.Kg2 Thf6 33.Tb1 T6f5 0-1
Alumbrado calls 9.Nh4 all wrong. But after 9.Nd4 we really must wonder, if White has been tricked into an Open Sicilian with a pawn down. Compare eg Botvinnik's plan in the Richter-Rauser.

Palkovi gives 9.0-0 Bg4 10.Qb3 e6 11.Qxb7 Na5 12.Qb4 Bxf3 (Nxc4 13.Qxc4 Bxf3 14.Qc6+ draws) 13.Qa4+ Ke7 14.gxf3 Nxc4 15.Qxc4 Bh6 and Black has the initiative. But White grants Black a tempo to connect the rooks. So I am not sure of just 13.gxf3 Nxc4 14.Qxc4 Bh6 15.Kh1.
So I suggest

Haas,F (2200) - Schwing,H (2315) [B21]
Oberliga Süd W 9798, 1998
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 d6 5.Bc4 Nc6 6.Nf3 a6 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.0–0 e6 10.Nd4 h5 11.Kh1 Qb6 12.Nb3 Bd7 13.f4 0–0–0 14.Be2 h4 15.Rf3 Be7 16.a4 Kb8 17.a5 Qc7 18.Rc1 Bc8 19.f5 Qd7 20.Na4 h3 21.g4 d5 22.Nb6 Qd6 23.exd5 exd5 24.Qd2 d4 25.Rd3 Qe5 26.Bf3 Bb4 27.Qc2 Rde8 28.Kg1 Qf4 29.Bxc6 bxc6 30.Qxc6 Bb7 31.Nd7+ Ka8 32.Nb6+ 0–1
Black's play is very reminiscent of the famous game Suetin-Botvinnik, Moscow 1952.
  

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alumbrado
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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #3 - 07/28/06 at 14:08:46
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[quote author=Uberdeker link=1154029852/0#1 date=1154083774]Dear Ben,

Glad to pick up the gauntlet. I have to ask you to bit a bit patient though, as I haven't much time to devote to chess at the moment.

As for the choice of critical lines, I'm not in entire agreement with MNb (when have we ever fully agreed on anything?!) : I don't trust the finachetto defence one bit and I consider the Finegold Defence and some Qa5 lines to be serious candidates.

But the 4. ...Ktc6 ; 5. Ktf3 d6 ; 6. Bc4 a6 variation still strikes as being the most reliable, so I'll be sticking with that. If then you choose 7. Bg5 Ktf6 ; 8. Bxf6 gf ; 9. Kth4, I am sure Dji and Meat will gladly take part the debate.
                                
                                                              Regards,
                                                                   Hubert

P.S. Interesting game you played with Speelman (published in latest NIC), I'm especially impressed at your choice of the Modern against such an expert
[/quote]
[color=#660066][font=Arial][size=14]
I would be interested to see this also.  I have won at least three games at ICC with Black which have continued 9...Qa5!? 10.Qh5?? Qxh5 White disconnects and forfeits.

Regardless of this, I think 9...Qa5 is actually quite a challenging move, asking White to justify 9.Nh4 which just looks all wrong to me.[/size][/font][/color]
  

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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #2 - 07/28/06 at 14:06:37
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Assuming Ben accepts the conditional moves we now have:
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6


current position (?)


and here 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nh4 would give


analysis position
  

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Re: Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
Reply #1 - 07/28/06 at 10:49:34
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Dear Ben,

Glad to pick up the gauntlet. I have to ask you to bit a bit patient though, as I haven't much time to devote to chess at the moment.
As for the choice of critical lines, I'm not in entire agreement with MNb (when have we ever fully agreed on anything?!) : I don't trust the finachetto defence one bit and I consider the Finegold Defence and some Qa5 lines to be serious candidates.

But the 4. ...Ktc6 ; 5. Ktf3 d6 ; 6. Bc4 a6 variation still strikes as being the most reliable, so I'll be sticking with that. If then you choose 7. Bg5 Ktf6 ; 7. Bxf6 gf ; 8. Kth4, I am sure Dji and Meat will galdly take part the debate.

                                 
                                                              Regards,
                                                                   Hubert

P.S. Interesting game you played with Speelman (published in latest NIC), I'm especially impressed at your choice of the Modern against such an expert

  
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Ben_Hague
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Ben_Hague v Uberdeker, Smith-Morra Gambit
07/27/06 at 19:50:52
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OK, I'll get the ball rolling. I'm assuming that Uberdeker is interested, if not then hopefully someone else will take up the cudgels.

1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 ...

I know that MNb has already given a summary of the critical lines, all I would add to that is that in my opinion the d6,a6,Nf6 and e6,a6,Nge7 lines are the most serious tests.
  
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